Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

[Badger]

For some reason I got to thinking about Viper and COBRA (from GI Joe) and thinking how if wanted you might could sub COBRA in like that so I was thinking what would be some groups in non-HERO fiction that could be used as a sub for DEMON.......others to sub for VIPER.

 

 

Not sure why I got thinking on this (other than my obsession with crossover madness) but I was curious if somebody remembered any groups in any other fiction that could sub for these to villain orgs.

[Sundog]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Well, there's always the obvious ones from comic books and popular media.

 

T.H.R.U.S.H. From "The Man from U.N.C.L.E.".

 

Hydra from Marvel.

 

Pyramid from Astro City

 

The Hive, Skull and Intergang from DC.

 

SPECTRE from the James Bond films.

 

Any of those could sub for VIPER. For DEMON it's a little more limited; the only one I can think of is The Hand from Marvel Comics, as they also had a strongly mystical bent.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

If you go outside of comics, however....

 

The Centre (from Pretender) could *easily* be a substitute for the front organizations of the Coin Collector and/or the Doctor. Before you balk at the magic end of things, I would pose that in the final season they attained more and more of a mystical bent, which went full-scale in Island of the Haunted, the second movie.

 

Probably somebody similar from Buffy or Angel, but I've managed to avoid those programs enough that I can't actually say.

 

Dipping into Manga, there's Delilah (from Godchild). Not entirely sure what they're up to, but it's certain implied that there's a grander mystical scheme behind it. Far more occult baddies in anime and manga that could be worked with, really....

 

Just drawing on RL conspiracy theories, you've got the Illuminati and the Freemasons, to say nothing of the 80's favorite bugaboo, The Grand Satanic Conspiracy (where DEMON came from, really.)

 

Hopefully that helps some.

[Pariah]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

In the Stargate SG-1 universe, the obvious candidates are the NID and their successors, the Trust. They have all the cool toys, and lots and lots of agents. And they're doubly dangerous because they have substantial government contacts.

[Mark Rand]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

The interdimensional law firm of Wolfram and Hart from Angel is a DEMON-like organization.

 

As far as the NID goes, it's a government agency that was set up to provide civilian oversight of top-secret military projects. Instead, it fell under the control of people that wanted to exploit the Stargate program. Also, a number of its agents, officially, went rogue and worked for anyone that wanted to hire them. The Trust is the successor to the rogue group.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Marvel Comics' HYDRA, and the minions of DC's master villain Kobra, are probably the strongest precedents for VIPER, COBRA and the other high-tech costumed terrorist organizations from comics and animation. There have also been a few orgs in Champions books that could substitute for VIPER, although their style and agenda is sometimes quite different. COIL (King Cobra's followers) still exists in the 5E CU, and is detailed in Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth and to a lesser extent in Evil Unleashed. In the 4E CU COIL was much larger and more diverse, as described in Champions Presents #2. The 4E supplement The Mutant File gave us two detailed orgs, the mutant-supremacy conspiracy IMAGE and the anti-mutant group Genocide, with plenty of tech and supervillains.

 

DEMON is a harder one to sub for. I can't really think of any precedent outside of Champions for an occult conspiracy pumped up to superheroic levels, although the abovementioned Wolfram and Hart fielded occasional superhuman operatives. Certainly the world-wide Satanist group postulated in the novels of Dennis Wheatley is the closest analogue, although it's much less overt and magically powerful than DEMON. The Champions Universe has something very similar in the Circle of the Scarlet Moon, but it also isn't well suited to standup fights against superheroes.

 

Again going back to Champs history, The Ultimate Supermage for Fourth Edition introduced Ouroboros, a fairly large body of worshippers of the Dragon in the guise of the Gnostic god Abraxas, and described cult members and their magic spells and artifacts, which can be quite potent. It's the closest parallel to DEMON that I've seen, and according to The Mystic World it still exists in the 5E CU. Digital Hero #4 even gave us an elite supervillain team serving Ouroboros, "The Chosen of Abraxas." USM also describes Solitaire's old cult, the Vril Society, although the scope of that would have to be expanded to come close to rivalling DEMON. Sadly, USM can be tough to find nowadays, as it only ever existed electronically.

[Hermit]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Xanatos from Gargoyles could easily be made the head of an ARGENT like organization or a bussinessman VIPER Nest leader, so make sure to expand those working under him and his group would make worthy adveseries for superheroes.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Good call, Hermit. Xanatos was also really good at creating suitable superhuman opponents: robots, powered armor, cyborgs, and gene-spliced.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

As my esteemed colleagues have pointed out DEMON is harder to find a correlation for. Mystic villains, it seems tend to work alone or form temporary at best partnerships. However, you could indulge crossover madness by swapping out the big guns of DEMON for similar beings from other sources. An inner circle of Spike the Vampire (Buffy), Baron Mordo (Marvel), Circe (DC), Manshoon (Forgotten Realms), and Kalutica (Rebirth), would be interesting to say the least.

 

Manga seems to have more options for DEMON style organizations, There's the Chess Pieces from MÄR, a rogue monk and his underlings from Kingdom of Hell, Kalutica and his vast faux church/menagerie of evil from Rebirth...

[Peregrine]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

DEMON is basically unique - it goes completely beyond Satanic Conspiracy and takes the "mystic evil group" to a whole new level. The closest I could imagine would be a worldwide cthuhluan cult dedicated to bringing the Great Old Ones back to rule Earth, under the delusion that they would be rewarded with top status in the new regime. (You know, kind of like- no, that's NGD territory...)

[Gemphyre]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

For some reason I got to thinking about Viper and COBRA (from GI Joe) and thinking how if wanted you might could sub COBRA in like that so I was thinking what would be some groups in non-HERO fiction that could be used as a sub for DEMON.......others to sub for VIPER.

 

 

Not sure why I got thinking on this (other than my obsession with crossover madness) but I was curious if somebody remembered any groups in any other fiction that could sub for these to villain orgs.

 

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned this one.

 

For a more humorous campaign, or for a "slightly" incompetent version of VIPER, would you believe there is KAOS from "Get Smart".

 

Gemphyre

[Peregrine]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

I always saw KAOS as less "VIPER-ish" and more, oh, "SPECTRE-ish" - less flashy and more covert.

[Gemphyre]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

I always saw KAOS as less "VIPER-ish" and more' date=' oh, "SPECTRE-ish" - less flashy and more covert.[/quote']

 

Well, it was a James Bond spoof.

 

Gemphyre

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

DEMON is basically unique - it goes completely beyond Satanic Conspiracy and takes the "mystic evil group" to a whole new level. The closest I could imagine would be a worldwide cthuhluan cult dedicated to bringing the Great Old Ones back to rule Earth' date=' under the delusion that they would be rewarded with top status in the new regime. (You know, kind of like- no, that's NGD territory...)[/quote']

 

Yep, 'cause with a few name changes that's almost exactly what DEMON is.

[Hermit]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

If you're looking for a mystic council , someone to control the grunts... might I suggest ripping off and renaming the villains from He-Man and the Masters of the Unvierse.

 

No.I'm not kidding.

 

Skeltor- The leader, the most powerful mystic, possibly an undead, or partially undead due to a failed grasp for magical power. While it would be tempting to make Necromacy his favorite, he actually seemed to prefer raw power in unsublte offensive form. His plots, ofcourse, could be less overt at least initially. It is his will that directs the council, and determines their goal.

Instead of Castle Greyskull, on a game world the target would be another source of magic.. .perhaps ANY source of magic. Whatever works for the GM.

 

Beast Man- His magics control the beasts of the field and forest, binding them to his will, and the price for his magics is becoming half feral himself. He acts like a pack animal around Skeletor, almost hound like faithful, eager to please, and yet needing a strong hand to be kept from trying to dominate the others.

For that matter, one could make him from Beast Mountain (in Hidden Lands), someone who turned to magic even as Dr. Silverback turned to science.

 

Evil Lyn- The ambitious right hand who is not to be trusted, yet is quite competent. Her magics seem more subtle, or perhaps it is just the way she uses them. Spells of illusion, and mental influence might suit her best.

 

Tri-Clops- Could be a diviner, or a warrior who uses divine magics to augment his fighting ablitiles. You'll never sneak up on "he of the many eyes"

Mer Man- Rip off freely from lovecraft. Make Mer Man's magics involve the sea, and more importantly, fishmen who unlike atlanteans, are shaped that way not by a Poisedon, but an Elder God. Mer Man seeks to master these magics, but doesn't fully realize who he calls on. One day, he'll have served his purpose, and those same canablistic fish men that obey him will turn on him.

Trapjaw- Ignore the technology and play it up as golem like magical engineering. Perhaps he'd be a Lemurian artificer who was badly hurt and rather than be weak, replaced his body parts with magic powered mechanisms, crude and clock work in parts, but no less sharp and strong for that.

[Badger]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

I found one while scoping out wikipedia. (Re-looking over some comic characters info)

 

 

 

 

 

The Church of Blood from DC continuity could sub for DEMON. Brother Blood as Luther Black. Trigon as a king of Edom.

 

 

Note: I was re-reading some stuff on Raven "and followed the links".

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

The Masters of the Universe riff is very clever , but that's more of a supervillain team than an organization like DEMON.

 

The Church of Blood is a pretty good suggestion, though. You'd have to give them a cadre of better-trained and equipped troops, and maybe some more "super class" followers, to substitute for DEMON, but with Brother Blood's resources and his skill at brainwashing that's certainly doable.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

The "Book of Crime" version of Intergang from DC could be a DEMON substitute.

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

The Circle of Thorns from City of Heroes would make a good DEMON substitute.

[Peregrine]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Yep' date=' 'cause with a few name changes that's almost exactly what DEMON is. [/quote']

 

Yah. To get a DEMON analogue, all you can do is file off the serial numbers...

[Peregrine]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

The Church of Blood is a pretty good suggestion' date=' though. You'd have to give them a cadre of better-trained and equipped troops, and maybe some more "super class" followers, to substitute for DEMON, but with Brother Blood's resources and his skill at brainwashing that's certainly doable.[/quote']

 

Eh, as much as I liked the Perez/Wolfman era Church of Blood, they are still too tied in with the Satanic riffs. DEMON is well beyond that...

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

The only supernatural villain organization that I've remotely heard of outside

of the HERO setting is the Milennium group that's mentioned in Hellsing.

 

Now as far as VIPER-type agencies/groups are concerned, they don't neces-

sarily have to be human in origin. The major villain agency/group in the live-

action '70s' Japanese series Johnny Sokko and his Flying Robot -- a group

called Gargoyle -- was made up of aliens (but if IIRC, they did have a few

human agents).

 

 

Major Tom

[Virtue]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Side question what Viper and Demon do you guys like 4th or 5th edition?

[Dominique]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Hmm...lets see. On the DC side of the house, The Church of Blood would fit nice, especially now that they've made Trigon the demon that they worship. And how could any of you forget the Hellfire Club?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Viper/Demon and organization in other fiction like them

 

Side question what Viper and Demon do you guys like 4th or 5th edition?

 

5th, for both. 5th edition VIPER develops them into a threat just as serious as all the other megavillains. . . and 5th edition DEMON takes a previously mishmashed and uninspired villain organization, and turns them into Grand Epic Villainy.