"Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

[ThothAmon]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Does the girlfriend wear skimpy snake outfits?

[Dead guy on tab]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

I would agree with the caution to be clear with the player on what is core to his character concept. We all have read comic books where the writer takes massive liberties with a character. I find that I tend to drop comic books when the writers destroy a character's core. I would expect it to be even more so with a character.

 

What I would do is keep this idea in my back pocket, introduce the DNPC and let the interaction with the PC and the DNPC grow naturally and see if the DNPC and situation develop to the point that her being a VIPER agent would make sense or be plausible.

 

The other option, which I recently used, is to introduce the character not as an established DNPC, but a potential DNPC and make her less than savory background part of one of the early storylines. When I did this, I introduced the DNPC as I was working up as I was laying the groundwork for the adventure. The player then discovered that the potential DNPC was part of the group he was trying to stop. The player then had the option of bringing her to justice or trying to convince her to betray her team. The aftermath could also be interesting: does the player turn her in, why is she involved with VIPER, does she leave, what if VIPER is one of those groups where no one leaves so the hero/DNPC has to constantly deal with the threat of her leaving VIPER. In some ways this could make the DNPC a better source of storylines/improve the PC's interaction and the player made the choice to go down this pathway.

[Hermit]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Why am I suddenly nervous...

 

 

Could be past experiences at play there

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

The campaign is still very young. We're all still getting our feet wet with the genre (role-playing-wise) and the system. I'm leaning more towards the player 'took it for points' side, not because thats bad or the player is bad. Its more because we're beginners with the disad system and that the GF is pretty much a blank page at this point.

 

This character is a private bodyguard for a wealthy business man and the DNPC/GF is the big bosses secretary. If she is working for VIPER, its certainly in an espionage type role. My difficulty is in reconciling the attraction between them while allowing for this subversive element. That remains my biggest hurdle. I think I am going to go with it. I have a goal this time around (as GM) to make the NPCs 'real' and I think this will go along with the accomplishment thereof.

 

As suggested previously, it's not a baid idea to build in an escape valve. Assume the player takes it very badly when his GF is revealed to be spying for VIPER. Maybe she's:

 

- brainwashed and doesn't know she provides info to VIPER - they call on occasion and say a key word that trips a post-hypnotioc suggestion

 

- controlled by a mentalist villain

 

- blackmailed by threats to her own family

 

-at the ultimate extreme, an UNTIL double agent providing info of limited value to get closer to the VIPER inner circle.

 

It never hurts to keep your options open.

[Cygnia]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Conversely, if he blows her off or mistreats her (or whines about "I wouldn't have taken her as a DNPC if you were going to use it against me!") she could make for a ready-made villain (with either Rivalry or Hunted) with more than enough motivation to go after the PC if she gets a VIPER "upgrade". :smoke:

[Lord Fyre]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Conversely' date=' if he blows her off or mistreats her (or whines about "I wouldn't have taken her as a DNPC if you were going to use it against me!") she could make for a ready-made villain (with either Rivalry or Hunted) with more than enough motivation to go after the PC if she gets a VIPER "upgrade". :smoke:[/quote']

 

A player who "whines about 'I wouldn't have taken her as a DNPC if you were going to use it against me!'" needs to be playing a game other then hero.

 

Is that not what "Character Disadvantages" are for?

[assault]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

In a fit of boredom, I bought a copy of Spider-Man Family yesterday, which included a "Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane" story.

 

That, plus this thread, has got me thinking about romance in superheroic campaigns. It's time for me to work on my weekly blog update, so I might try to write something about this.

[Tech]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

A player who "whines about 'I wouldn't have taken her as a DNPC if you were going to use it against me!'" needs to be playing a game other then hero.

 

Is that not what "Character Disadvantages" are for?

 

Um, no. The game is for the players (and even the GM) to enjoy. If the game isn't enjoyable by someone, then there is a problem somewhere. If someone complains about it, there is a miscommunication between the GM and the player about what is allowed and what isn't. As some of you have said, it adds drama and that's fine and all when it's a comic book or a story as the writer is totally in control and the reader must accept what the story is. However, people are people: some may like it and as I've experienced more often than not, some may not like it. You need to know who your player is before pulling out something like that. Perhaps you can take him/her to the side and ask if it's okay if you do something secret behind the scenes. If the player doesn't like it, the GM should drop it. The GM needs to get the approval of the player unless you favor the idea of someone possibly getting upset. Disadvantages are there to disadvantage the character in the game, not the player. As I mentioned, some players will relish the concept, others not so much - make sure you know the results.

[Tom]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Could be past experiences at play there

Just remember, Nocturne could become a recurring NPC...

(I'll need more beer... -- fortunately, only one of my chars has an older sister and that's in the game where VIPER doesn't exist. Errrr, yet...)

 

On an 'on track' note, the biggest question is how far does the player trust you to have a good 'story' reason for this little surprise, and how sure are you that the player will want to be in the story?

 

After that, it's all just details and hopefully having fun.

 

I'll also second (or is it third) Assault's advice. Having a back door is always a good idea when everything goes someplace you never expected...

[Blue]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

I think as long as you don't tweak her personality into something the player hadn't signed up for, it's a good twist.

 

I mean if she's still generally the same girl, and especially if there's some hope to him that he can convert her to his cause, then it will work. But if the swee, nice, GF turns out to be a murderous shrew and yet she never gave any hint of being so in her normal life, it would leave me scratching my head.

[ghost-angel]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Make her a Hard Luck Case.

 

Maybe she's got a record from something stupid in her youth, or was a wrong place/wrong time and she got stuck in a situation out of her control and paid for it, or maybe she's just reformed.

 

But you know... she finally got a straight job, who hired her despite that felony on her record and was making an honest go at it. Then VIPER came along, they'd already gotten a few agents in the company, and one more never hurts. Especially if they have a record and can be set up as a patsy. She was "recruited" with threats of being fired, etc, and out of desperation agreed to reluctantly work for VIPER.

 

So she was a criminal, and doesn't want to be one, and ended up one again. And now this boyfriend is here, things are looking up - kind of. Once/If she finds out he's a Hero you have a built in hook for him to Be A Hero, save her from VIPER and Get The Girl.

 

Great plot.

[Lord Fyre]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Make her a Hard Luck Case.

 

Maybe she's got a record from something stupid in her youth, or was a wrong place/wrong time and she got stuck in a situation out of her control and paid for it, or maybe she's just reformed.

 

But you know... she finally got a straight job, who hired her despite that felony on her record and was making an honest go at it. Then VIPER came along, they'd already gotten a few agents in the company, and one more never hurts. Especially if they have a record and can be set up as a patsy. She was "recruited" with threats of being fired, etc, and out of desperation agreed to reluctantly work for VIPER.

 

So she was a criminal, and doesn't want to be one, and ended up one again. And now this boyfriend is here, things are looking up - kind of. Once/If she finds out he's a Hero you have a built in hook for him to Be A Hero, save her from VIPER and Get The Girl.

 

Great plot.

 

This is good. And if your player is the time for complicate character driven stories, this would be perfect!

[The Weapon]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

 

EDIT: Here is my concrete advice: Have an escape clause and be prepared to use it!

 

If the player is reacting badly, make sure you can restore the original situation. Be prepared for the need to declare that the DNPC has been duped, brainwashed, blackmailed or framed, is infiltrating VIPER in a Lois Lane-style insanely dangerous search for a scoop, or whatever works for the character in question.

 

Let's not forget the old clone/android/evil twin that just looks like her. An oldie but a goodie.

 

This way, if the player reacts well to your plot, you can continue as you intended. If not, you can undo the damage, pursue a plotline that can be equally as interesting, and reuse most of the elements of your intended plot anyway.

[tkdguy]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Or have the hero and his villainous girlfriend know each others' secret identities and have agreed to keep their professional and personal lives separate. They duke it out in the daytime, then they kiss and make up at night.

 

Okay, it's highly unlikely, but that would be an interesting twist.

[Karmakaze]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Or have the hero and his villainous girlfriend know each others' secret identities and have agreed to keep their professional and personal lives separate. They duke it out in the daytime, then they kiss and make up at night.

 

Okay, it's highly unlikely, but that would be an interesting twist.

 

I was in a game where one of the hero PCs hooked up with a villainess NPC that way. It helped in that case that the NPC was not so much of the "take over the world, Muahahahah" type and more the "mercenary who takes cases based on her personal morality rather than what's legal". They both eventually retired and got married and then their kid turned up in another campaign.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

A player who "whines about 'I wouldn't have taken her as a DNPC if you were going to use it against me!'" needs to be playing a game other then hero.

 

Is that not what "Character Disadvantages" are for?

My concern about it isn't necessarily "wouldn't have taken the DNPC if it was going to be used against me" as "this is not the 'used against me' that I signed on for!"

 

Hunted has different grades for what you expect out of a character; Watched, they're not a big deal, might even be friendly, just keep your nose clean. Minor Punishment, they want to give you a sound thrashing. Major Punishment... make sure your premiums at Colonial Penn are paid up.

 

DNPC doesn't have that. If I buy a significant other as a DNPC, anticipating wacky hijinks trying to hide my SID and rescue missions, then the GM springs the fact that my SO is working for the bad guys... there's gonna be words. Resentment, at least.

 

As has been said by another, if he's imagining his DNPC as Lois Lane to his Superman, you *really* need an escape switch to hit if he gets ticked off that you've suddenly switched the relationship to one more like that between Selina Kyle and Batman.

[tancred]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

I was in a game where one of the hero PCs hooked up with a villainess NPC that way. It helped in that case that the NPC was not so much of the "take over the world' date=' Muahahahah" type and more the "mercenary who takes cases based on her personal morality rather than what's legal". They both eventually retired and got married and then their kid turned up in another campaign.[/quote']

 

Heh, sounds like my old Champions campaign. One of my players, a rich society man-about-town, fell for the leading socialite philanthropist beauty.

 

Then she turned out to be a supervillain. Of course, she wasn't really evil, just inclined to rob jewelry stores. She'd grown up poor, made herself rich, then turned philanthropist.

 

He eventually convinced her to give up crime, they got married, and were living mostly happily ever after when the campaign went on hold.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

In my defense, the GF in question has a name and an occupation which brings her into contact with the PC but nothing else. There is no physical description, no story of how they met nor what type of relationship they have. The in game interactions have consisted of "I'm hanging out with [my girlfriend]." I did warn my PCs that during the course of the game that anything they did not fill in with regards to their background, I would in whatever manner suited me within the scope of the game.

 

I don't plan on being malicious. I'm after a good story. I do appreciate the back door suggestions as I'm not sure I would have thought of that on my own. I'm liking the evil twin or the hard luck case as possibilities. I would also like to see the interactions of two parties who have opposing ideologies but go about achieving them in a similar manner.

[Plex]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

I don't think it is a bad thing to do. Plex had a supervillainess as a girlfriend who eventually became his wife. Of course she turned to the good side. For a long time I didn't know as a player that the NPC was bad. It was a lot of fun to play out. I think she knew who my character was in and out of hero id, though.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

This character is a private bodyguard for a wealthy business man and the DNPC/GF is the big bosses secretary. If she is working for VIPER' date=' its certainly in an espionage type role. My difficulty is in reconciling the attraction between them while allowing for this subversive element. That remains my biggest hurdle. I think I am going to go with it. I have a goal this time around (as GM) to make the NPCs 'real' and I think this will go along with the accomplishment thereof.[/quote']

 

Making NPCs 'real' is, IMO, something that really adds a lot to the game, even non-DNPCs. When I started my new game, I insisted on information about any DNPCs, then asked each player to provide names of 4-5 other non-DNPCs that the hero (or more likely, secret ID) interacts with fairly regularly (family, friends, coworkers, etc.)

 

With the hero's girlfriend in an "espionage" role for VIPER, you could leave little clues that the character might pick up along the way. Giving the boss a Hunted: VIPER might also be in order.

 

"How did VIPER know about that top-secret R&D project? Only a half-dozen people knew about it!"

 

"Boss, our latest sweep of your office found a VIPER-issue bug in your desk, but I know for sure it wasn't there last week."

 

I also think her being forced into spying for VIPER is a great idea. They might have sent her surveillance photos of her little sister at school, her parents in their home, and so on, a case of "Look what we could do if you don't cooperate." And the PC might find those photos in her desk, giving him a clue once he starts to suspect her involvement.

 

Alternately, she could be opposed to the boss (maybe his factories pollute, or endangered someone she knew) for ethical/moral reasons. Maybe she got the secretary job to "attack from within," and the thing with VIPER is just a "marriage of convenience".

 

Either way, she would have nothing against the boss's bodyguard, so reconciling the attraction between them with the subversive element doesn't seem that hard to me.

 

I'm not too fond of the "evil twin/clone" idea, but that's just personal taste. YMMV.

 

If the attraction is indeed mutual between her and the PC hero, she might only give VIPER information that would keep the boss (and by extension, his bodyguard) out of direct danger. If VIPER does insist on kidnapping/attacking the boss, she might find some way to forewarn or forearm the PC. Or anonymously call in help herself.

 

Best of luck. You gave me an idea that I plan to use (modified) in my game. Thanks.

[tkdguy]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

Remember the scene in Batman Returns when Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle discover each others' identities during a party? It went something like this:

 

Selina: Are we gonna have to start fighting now?

 

Bruce: Let's wait until we go outside.

[Dead guy on tab]

Re: "Your girlfriend works for VIPER!" Huh?

 

If you want to get really nasty, you could do the storyline from elementals with Morningstar, i.e. the girlfriend is really a shape-shifting archnemesis (although in the comic book the characters had an adversial past and morningstar was particularly vindicative.)