Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

[flyingcircus]

Hi,

I am a GURPS GM and ran across a few articles on HERO 5th edition, read them and it seems as though GURPS & HERO are very closely related but I dont know if HERO is easy or hard to create characters & settings with, I am tempted to seek out a copy and try giving it a chance, but I'm afraid that the game is just another GURPS system (which is fine) but if its too much like GURPS, I see no reason to switch over.........So you HERO GM's out there, sell me on it if you like.

 

Thanks

Scott:)

[JmOz]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

GURPS is a central cog that you apply other cogs to, to build the game you want, you buy the basic books, and then the extras you need (like a magic system)

 

HERO, on the other hand is the whole factory where the cogs are built, abou 95% of everything you will ever need is in the main book but I warn you now, you will need to build everything from the parts in the book. If you want you can buy some predesigned stuff, but with the exception of the Ultimate line most of the books are how to over here is new stuff.

 

I would actualy advise you to pick up Sidekick insted of hero, it is similar in purpose to GURPS Light, but is a full gaming system, mostly it is the big book with all of the optional rules (Like Hit location, Bleeding, some of the more eccentric powers, etc...). It is also a quarter the cost

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Hi,

I am a GURPS GM and ran across a few articles on HERO 5th edition, read them and it seems as though GURPS & HERO are very closely related but I dont know if HERO is easy or hard to create characters & settings with, I am tempted to seek out a copy and try giving it a chance, but I'm afraid that the game is just another GURPS system (which is fine) but if its too much like GURPS, I see no reason to switch over.........So you HERO GM's out there, sell me on it if you like.

 

Thanks

Scott:)

 

I was a d20 GM, and I never liked GURPS much. What you really need is someone who's familiar with both systems. While I can fanboy the HERO system all day long, it won't do you much good. Frankly, I think it's the greatest system I've ever used (and after a couple of decades, I've used a bunch). For me, there's just nothing I can't model and no genre I can't play. I love it. Seriously.

 

Hopefully someone with something more constructive to say will be along in a little bit. But having played a little bit of GURPS, I can't say that I like it much (although I'm told the vehicle rules are superior), and I genuinely adore HERO.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

One of the things I talk about with a long time GURPS player who has taken the time to learn HERO is the idea of Special Effects.

 

His stance is that the separation of Special Effects from Mechanics is much cleaner and better in HERO than it is in GURPS. He keeps encouraging GURPS players to learn HERO specifically for that fact.

 

Though his on complaint is that GURPS does "realistic" better than HERO does, and HERO does "cinematic" better than GURPS. So he bounces between the two systems depending on which side he's leaning to that day.

[Lucius]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Well, here's my take on it:

 

GURPS is watered down Hero. Or perhaps, Hero is like GURPS, but more so.

 

It gives you a lot more freedom; if you think you had options in GURPS, wait until you see what can be done with Hero. But the trade-off is that GURPS does a lot more work for you, if you are willing to accept the same assumptions for your setting that the game designer made.

 

That trade off can be mitigated by getting the genre books and other sourcebooks. For example, if you don't want to invent a magic system from scratch including spells, and/or leave it up the players to write their OWN spells, you can get the Fantasy Hero Grimoires and have a lot of spells written up for you.

 

I've played GURPS and I've ran it, but I have more experience with Hero; I seem to recall we had others here with extensive GURPS experience before choosing Hero. Hopefully they'll come along with more details or other insights.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[Spence]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

GURPs is OK but it isn't really a self contained universal system. You have to continue to buy extras for everything you want to do. I like Hero because you literally don't need anything beyond the core rule book. With Hero I don't need books with equipment or vehicles because the core rules tell you how to build things. Now they do put out books with equipment and such, but you don't have to have them. Sure it is easier to select pre-built guns or aircraft, but you don't have too. Plus when you do buy a book it not only has the items but they are pointed out so you can see how they were built.

 

All in all, of all the game systems I have tried over the years, Hero is the only one that lives up to the claim of "universal" IMO.

 

I would second the recommendation that you try Sidekick first.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Most game systems (GURPS included) start (logically enough) with a thing's cause, and proceed to its effect. If you want a sword, or a fireball spell, or a light saber, you look up a sword, a fireball spell, or a light saber in the book, and it tells you what the effect is (it does this much damage, and this kind of damage, in this kind of an area, etc.)

 

HERO works the other way around. In HERO, you won't find a game element called "Sword" or "Fireball" or "Light Saber." Instead, you decide how much damage your attack should do, of what kind of damage, in what kind of area, etc., and you find those "building blocks" in the book. (For example, a sword would do Physical Killing Damage against a single target, no range. A fireball would do Energy Normal Damage in an area at range. A light saber would do Energy Killing Damage against a single target, no range.) Then you call the resulting ability a "sword" or a "fireball spell" or a "light saber."

 

Why is this a better approach? Because if you have to rely on the game system to provide you the effect for every cause, then the game system has to anticipate every cause. If you want to build a Wave-Motion Gun, and the book doesn't have a Wave-Motion Gun, then you're out of luck. The book can't include infinite effects for infinite causes. But with HERO, the book provides you tools for building the effects, and the causes can be whatever you want them to be.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Welcome, flyingcircus! It's always nice to meet a fan of another system who has an interest in and open mind about HERO.

 

To me, the greatest difference between GURPS and HERO is that GURPS tends to start with the specific and work up to the general, whereas HERO usually starts from the general and works down to the specific. By this I mean that, outside of the core GURPS rules, the various GURPS sourcebooks provide additional rules and examples tailored to specific genres and/or settings. From these examples the supplements often extrapolate general guidelines on how GMs can tailor the rules to create their own distinctive settings; but that's not their main focus. OTOH HERO provides all the core rules in a single book. While various supplements may sometimes introduce a few additional optional rules, for the most part they merely provide examples on how the core rules can be customized to give the particular play experience the GM desires.

 

On the practical level, GURPS gives you more stuff that you can use "out of the box," so you can start playing quickly, but makes some of the decisions about how it should work for you. HERO gives you more flexibility to decide how your game should run, but requires more setup time and choices. Mind you, with GURPS Fourth and HERO Fifth, the two games have drawn much closer in those areas. GURPS now provides more customizable elements, while HERO has more volumes of prebuilt stuff.

 

Beyond that, IMO the difference is largely that of "feel." Both are excellent games, well supported, which can do just about anything you require of them, and which you prefer is largely a matter of individual taste.

 

Personally, I like to let the game sell itself. I second the recommendation of HERO System Sidekick, which was specifically designed and playtested to introduce the game to newcomers. It contains most of the core rules, and you could actually use 90% of the published supplementary material with Sidekick alone. If you purchase the PDF version from Hero Games's online store it's only $7.00 US for 128 pages.

 

However, there are also substantial free online resources to let you sample the game and see how it works for you. To start with, you might want to look at these online FAQ addressing general questions about HERO: http://www.herogames.com/faq-workingwithhero.htm

 

This link will take you to a webpage from which you can download PDF files with an introduction to the basics of the game's mechanics, a short summary of the combat sequence, and guidelines and examples for using HERO to run various game genres: http://www.herogames.com/freeStuff.htm?category=Hero+5th+Edition+Documents

 

While the core HERO mechanics are pretty simple and easy to remember and use, the most involved elements of the game are character generation (almost a separate game for many HEROphiles), and combat. Let me direct you to a couple of discussion-board threads providing tutorials on both. While you won't follow all the game-mechanic references, they will illustrate the issues involved and how they play:

Chargen: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3864

Combat: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3210

 

Finally, I find that the greatest persuader as to the scope and power of the HERO System is what the fans themselves have done with it. There's a vast array of free quality fan-created material on the Internet covering an incredible array of genres and settings. One of the HEROphiles' favorite hobbies is converting books, films, television, comics, even other RPGs into HERO terms. We can direct you to this material if you're interested, but since you're a GURPS player I thought you benefit from seeing what's been done with your game. The examples below are for GURPS Third Edition, but should still give you a good reference point:

 

GURPS Characteristics, Advantages, Disadvantages and Skill conversions (based on GURPS Supers, but widely applicable):

http://surbrook.devermore.net/herosource/gurpshero.html

 

More specific GURPS Disadvantages:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/herosource/newdisads.html

 

Champions to GURPS Supers (mostly one-to-one mapping, so usable in either direction):

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Roleplayer/Roleplayer21/HeroToGURPS.html

 

Weapon conversion notes, and converted weapons from GURPS Ultratech:

http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/hero/ultrahero.html

 

Many converted characters from GURPS Wild Cards, based on the series of novels:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsbook/wildcards/wildcards.html

 

4E HERO character stats for the GURPS Supers adventure School of Hard Knocks, by its author Aaron Allston:

http://www.mactyre.net/october/HEROCHAR/Files.html

[then download KNOCKS11.ZIP]

 

Published characters from the GURPS Supers line:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsrpg/rpg.html#GURPS

 

Creatures from GURPS Fantasy Bestiary:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/creatures.html#myth

 

Translation of the unofficial GURPS adaptation of 3X3 Eyes into 4E HERO:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/worldbooks/3x3eyes/3x3.html

 

Racial package for An Phar, from GURPS Aliens:

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/paanphar.html

 

Racial package for Irari, from GURPS Aliens:

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/pairari.html

 

Racial package for Jaril, from GURPS Aliens:

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/pajaril.html

 

 

Anything more you need or would like to know, don't hesitate to post followups. As you can see we're a generally friendly and helpful bunch to newcomers.

[Lysando]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

I've played both GURPS and HERO, and GMed GURPS. I sometimes think of GURPS as HERO-lite, or HERO as GURPS on steroids. But I don't think that is entirely accurate. Another somewhat-inaccurate analogy I sometimes use is that D20 is like Windows, GURPS is like Mac, and HERO is like Linux.

 

I've found that GURPS is easier to pick up and learn, and easier to GM.

 

However, HERO is like a precision instrument. The good thing about HERO is that you can build literally whatever you want, and have it defined sufficiently to enable you to use it according to the rules. When you build a spell or power or whatever built in HERO, you know exactly how it is going to work. And game balance is built into the system in a way that never really is with GURPS.

 

So...if you want to play with your 16 year old nephew, who doesn't want to bother with all the complexity of HERO, then GURPS is a far better alternative than the mess that is D20 ("balance? what is this word balance that keep saying?"). However, if you want to go to the "next level", then HERO might be for you. Folks have suggested getting HERO Sidekick. This is a good idea. For a minimal sum, you can get a good basic intro. to HERO. If you like what HERO is all about based on that, then you can "upgrade" to the full HERO, or you can also just stick with Sidekick.

[Kdansky]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

I've also GMed GURPS (medium sized campaign, medieval world, neither low nor high magic). My gripe: The rules tell me how my world looks like, which spells exist and so on. Also, combats are not really interesting, since the first hit usually decides who wins. For me, GURPS is 99% like D20 and only a tiny bit like HERO.

 

There's nothing HERO cannot do, and unbalances are tiny and/or negligible. GURPS is like D20 with points. They even have classes (or rather: You cannot feasibly be mediocre at casting spells without spending half your points into "can cast spells").

 

I only miss my Reaction Modifier. That's a great concept (but hey, I model it in hero with presence).

 

Edit: Yes, this is third edition I'm talking about. There's a fourth?

[rjcurrie]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Hi,

I am a GURPS GM and ran across a few articles on HERO 5th edition, read them and it seems as though GURPS & HERO are very closely related but I dont know if HERO is easy or hard to create characters & settings with, I am tempted to seek out a copy and try giving it a chance, but I'm afraid that the game is just another GURPS system (which is fine) but if its too much like GURPS, I see no reason to switch over.........So you HERO GM's out there, sell me on it if you like.

 

Thanks

Scott:)

 

One important piece of information that can help when discussing this is which edition of GURPS are you familiar with? In particular, are you familiar with 3rd or 4th edition GURPS? Most people here seem to be using GURPS 3rd edition for their comparison.

 

If you are familiar with 4th edition GURPS, then you have already seen a taste of the Hero approach as that edition took a big step towards Hero's "reasoning from effect" approach by featuring an effects-based Power system that lets you build most "special abilities" such as alien race abilities and psionics. However, they did not take the real big step and use this approach for the magic sub-system.

 

That being said, one big difference that I noticed (definitely with GURPS 3rd and I think it still holds with GURPS 4th) between GURPS and Hero is that most GURPS Advantages and Skills had their costs based on hard they were for the character to learn whereas Hero takes a more generic approach to costing things. For instance, with few exceptions, all Hero Skills cost 3 points for the basic roll and 2 points for each increase in that roll (like GURPS, Hero is a 3d6 roll-under system). Also, unlike GURPS, Hero does not make characters pay more points just for having an "unusual background" or limit their access to certain ablities because they lack such a background.

 

Another difference is that Hero uses a single roll in combat to determine whether or not a character has hit as opposed to GURPS's separte offensive and defensive rolls. The roll is made by the offensive character and incorporate's the defensive character's current defensive capabililties.

 

I do have one word of warning about Hero (and I am unsure how much this may apply to GURPS as well because I have very little GURPS experience). It is often necessary for a Hero GM to take a close look at any characters presented for play to make sure that they are not unbalanced for the campaign being run. Because Hero is a very open system that lets you build almost anything, it is vulnerable to builds that can be very unbalancing. Often, this is partially handled by character creation guidelines set out by the GM at the beginning of a campaign, but even these don't catch all abusive (at least in a given GM's mind) builds.

 

As others have pointed out, virtually all Hero rules are in the main rule book. Occasionally, some new optional rules are presented in the "Ultimate" series of books but they are not necessary.

 

As for world-building, the Hero genre books (Fantasy Hero, Champions, Star Hero, etc.) all take the same approach that GURPS Space always has. They describe the genre and give advice on how to use the rules to simulate aspects the genre. For example, Fantasy Hero does not give you a magic sytem. It gives you advice on how to use Hero powers and skills to create a magic system that fits the flavor you want for your setting. Hero also offers various specific setting books. For example, Turakian Age, Valdorian Age, Tuala Morn, and the upcoming Atlantean Age are all Fantasy Hero settings but each has its own flavor, magic system, and character creation guidelines. These settings can be used as is or as inspirations for creating your own settings.

[pawsplay]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

GURPS and HERO do some different things, but honestly, in their latest incarnations, they are more alike than ever.

 

Compared to GURPS:

- HERO is more action oriented, and character creation is built around sturdier characters

- HERO has more of the gears and cogs of the game showing, even such things as characters moving skill levels around on their turn and custom built powers

- HERO is a little more abstract in what exactly a given number or power means

- HERO assumes less about the game worlds you play in.

- HERO by default does not spend as much energy on simulating reality, not that GURPS does except when it'se useful

 

Really, I can't imagine being a GURPS fan and not having a copy of HERO 5th edition (revised). It's a very small investment for a very versatile game, not to mention a lot of food for thought for your GURPS game.

[Opal]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Hi,

I am a GURPS GM and ran across a few articles on HERO 5th edition, read them and it seems as though GURPS & HERO are very closely related ....

I'm afraid that the game is just another GURPS system (which is fine) but if its too much like GURPS, I see no reason to switch over..

GURPS did lift some aspects of it's system from Hero - the use of 3d6 as the resolution die, for instance, and the general point build system. Asside from that, though, GURPS is an evolution of The Fantasy Trip.

 

The main difference is that GURPS is essentially a list-based system. You build your character by spending points to buy from a list of abilities - stats, skills, and whatever special abilities are apropriate to the genre. You want to play a fantasy game in GURPS you need GURPS fantasy for the spells. GURPS Supers has long lists of various superpowers.

 

Hero, OTOH, is effects-bases. While it still has stats and skills like any other game, the thing that makes it a little different is the powers. Hero has a list of generic powers that can be customized by the player to model any special ability - be it superpower, spell, high-tech gizmo or whatever. You don't have to add new rules to change genres. Hero does put out genre books, but they contain few if any additional rules. And you don't /need/ them to play in the corresponding genre. That's a nice feature - if you're not selling books, that is.

 

....

but I dont know if HERO is easy or hard to create characters & settings with.

Hero has some published settings, and it's flexibility makes it easily adaptible to any setting you want to create. It does have some general guidelines for creating a campaign, and they're not difficult to use. If you're creating package deals, equipment, spell colleges, or any other 'bits' you want available for the players, though, that gets more time consuming.

 

Character creation is involved, especially if you're designing powers. It's what turns a lot of players off on the system. It's also what makes some of us love it, because you can build to concept very closely.

[boomer]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Haven't played GURPs but I've played D&D (didn't we all...), Shadowrun and L5R (the old system....I hear there's a d20 version out) and of course Hero. We could have done everything we needed to do with Hero. Like Thia said...there's no genre you can't play with Hero. Like Indiana Jones? Hero's core rules got that covered. Like Superheroes? Hero's got you covered. Like playing street cops ala Law and Order? Hero's got that covered. Honestly the most fun I had was playing a days from retirement "old guy" New York Italian Detective in a game filled with Supers.......They had their powers and crap...I had a badge and a .38 special. The thing with Hero....it takes awhile to make a character if you are doing it for the first time. So much stuff you can throw in to flesh them out you will be up for hours going..."no...that skill would be better...ooooo I can create any kind of Knowledge Skill I want.....I will have KS: Seedy bars in Campaign City....that will come in handy..." and hey that's only 2 points or so.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

A question intentionally to spark a discussion (not a flame war or a "HERO 1z t3h l33tz!21#!!!eleven!!@!" sort of discussion, it's a formal, serious question) that I had was this:

 

In HERO I can merrily pop off and model literally any character, whether its Indiana Jones (nice one, Boom) or a Street Level cop or Galactus. I can also model any SPELL, any POWER or any effect that I can think of (including the game-breaking and absurdly expensive Time Stop). How well does GURPS handle this?

 

Could I go into GURPS and model (not just "find" but model) all of the d20 spells as I have in HERO? Can I create new package deals on the fly because I have all the tools in front of me and know precisely how they work? Is that possible? I genuinely don't know. I would say from what I've read in this thread and my minimal experience with GURPS that the answer is "nnn...yyy... maybe." Whereas with HERO the answer is not only "Yes."

 

It's four different VERSIONS of Yes. So what says the assembly?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

It's been a number of years since I did anything with GURPS, but my dim recollections were I found that the system presented a lot more friction for trying to model a concept than the HERO System did. I also seem to recall that GURPS would let a character be ok at something but placed a very high premium on being exceptional at something, causing weird scaling issues.

 

Game play I remember feeling like GURPS presented me as a player with fewer options to do "cool things" and more obstacles to overcome.

 

I was largely dissatisfied with it and only played it a couple of times. I was already very invested in the HERO System at the time so for me, I was very aware of areas where GURPS didn't compare favorably to the HERO System. If I were unfamiliar with HS I might have had a different perspective as it is still more flexible than most other games (especially back in those days).

[Lysando]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Could I go into GURPS and model (not just "find" but model) all of the d20 spells as I have in HERO? Can I create new package deals on the fly because I have all the tools in front of me and know precisely how they work? Is that possible? I genuinely don't know. I would say from what I've read in this thread and my minimal experience with GURPS that the answer is "nnn...yyy... maybe." Whereas with HERO the answer is not only "Yes."

 

In GURPS you aren't really "modelling" anything in the sense that you are in HERO. In HERO when you are trying to convert a D20 spell or something like that, what you are essentially trying to do is figure out what Power would be used to describe the effect, and then determine Advantages and Limitations to apply to modify in it in accordance to the D20 description. In GURPS you really don't do things that way. The GURPS GM would look at the D20 description and then decide how that translates into GURPS rules, without necessarily looking at a list of powers and modifiers. The process is less precise.

 

When I get home I'll post some sample spells in D20, GURPS and HERO.

 

If you are a rules tinkerer, then HERO is your game. If you get a thrill off of trying to figure out how you would build something, say something you saw on the telly during Superbowl :-) then HERO is for you.

 

I began playing HERO about 12 years ago because I got massively burned out on D20, and because all my friends were playing HERO (peer pressure!). I've come to appreciate the system because of the fine level of control it gives you. Creating spells in HERO is alot like how I would imagine creating spells in the "real world" would be like.

 

However, when I'm looking for a system to play with my 16 year old nephew, who just wants to play now, then I look to GURPS. Plus, I really like alot of the GURPS worldbooks, etc. I have over 100 of them, and love to read them more than once. Many of them have some very good innovative ideas which can be applied to ANY game system. Not so much the crunchy bits, but all the other stuff, ie atmosphere, flavour,plots,campaigns,etc. HERO players should not be afraid to look at GURPS books. You won't get infected with GURPSophilia or become converted to GURPS, but you might pick up some good ideas for your HERO work.

 

ntb

[Vestnik]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

GURPS is called "GURPS." It sounds like some kind of lungfish. Hero, on the other hand, is called Hero.

 

I rest my case.

[GamePhil]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Before 4th Edition GURPS, my suggestion would be to use the game you like the root system for, but use HERO to create superpowers, point-buy gadgets (as opposed to Ultra-Tech ones), and psionics, even if you use GURPS otherwise. In the same way, you could also get a good idea of what a spell's Stamina Cost is and whether it is Hard or Very Hard by building it and comparing it to similar spells. Some things will need some converting, but this gets you a unified and well-balanced system for almost everything.

 

With GURPS 4th, I'm a bit out of my element. From what I do know of the systems, you'll still have a more unified system of powers, so certain game types (especially cross-genre or other unusual mixes) are easier to do. Most of the rest of it is just personal preference. I do prefer the basic HERO mechanics, myself, but it's the power construction that maes it distinctive.

[gojira]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

I've done a little of both.

 

GURPS is a bit more realistic and deadly in combat. HERO is a bit more cinematic. HERO is by default good for running Superhero games and pulp-action style games. GURPS is a little more gritty by default. Both can be tuned to go the other way, if desired.

 

I'd say that GURPS has the easier character creation by more than a bit. HERO can be quite intensive to set up. The GM may end up building characters for players as well as NPCs. HERO is a more expressive however, since it basically allows the players to just make stuff up. In play they are pretty similar. Both require some tactical decisions by players that can take time if players are too controlling.

 

Over all, I like HERO better. If you are unsure, check out some of the Free Stuff on the main page. The Genre-by-Genre guide will help you out. Talk to your players and see what they think. If they are willing, get Sidekick ($7 for a PDF) and try a simple game with simple characters. If this seems to suit everyone's fancy, you can start picking up genre books and exploring the system more.

 

OTOH, if you have an extensive library of GURPS products already and your players are happy, there may not be a lot gained by moving to HERO. The one exception might be superheroes, which I think HERO still does rather better than GURPS. (Note: check out the upcoming PS238 book )

[pawsplay]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

The main difference is that GURPS is essentially a list-based system. You build your character by spending points to buy from a list of abilities - stats, skills, and whatever special abilities are apropriate to the genre. You want to play a fantasy game in GURPS you need GURPS fantasy for the spells. GURPS Supers has long lists of various superpowers.

 

Less true than it used to be. Since 5th edition, HERO lets you buy more abilities from a list if you want and standardized a lot of skill categories. Since 4th edition, GURPS Advantages are constructed such that they can be modified to just about anything. GURPS Powers, for instance, adds about three new Advantages to what's in the basic book. GURPS Magic does add more spells, but you only need that if you use the generic magic system, which many game worlds do not use, and need lots of spells, which most people do not need.

 

GURPS Supers does not in fact have a long list of superpowers. That was the last revision of the game. The new GURPS Supers is a genre book for supers, with GURPS Powers being a sort of "how to" book for constructing more special abilities. Neither is required to run a supers game. GURPS Supers is approximately equivalent to Champions, GURPS Powers is equivalent to parts of Fantasy Hero, The UNTIL Database, and the Ultimate Brick/Mentalist/etc books. There is no GURPS book currently in print I am aware of that simply has long lists of prebuilt powers. GURPS Supers has more pe built templates, some genre-specific powers, and rules for super lifting and such.

[Opal]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Yeah, ever since the only guy in my group who liked GURPS moved to Oklahoma, I haven't much kept up on it. I didn't even know there was a 4th edition of it. I had no idea it had made substancial changes to make it even more Hero-like. Afterall, Hero changed very little from 4th to 5th.

[boomer]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

A question intentionally to spark a discussion (not a flame war or a "HERO 1z t3h l33tz!21#!!!eleven!!@!" sort of discussion, it's a formal, serious question) that I had was this:

 

In HERO I can merrily pop off and model literally any character, whether its Indiana Jones (nice one, Boom) or a Street Level cop or Galactus. I can also model any SPELL, any POWER or any effect that I can think of (including the game-breaking and absurdly expensive Time Stop). How well does GURPS handle this?

 

Could I go into GURPS and model (not just "find" but model) all of the d20 spells as I have in HERO? Can I create new package deals on the fly because I have all the tools in front of me and know precisely how they work? Is that possible? I genuinely don't know. I would say from what I've read in this thread and my minimal experience with GURPS that the answer is "nnn...yyy... maybe." Whereas with HERO the answer is not only "Yes."

 

It's four different VERSIONS of Yes. So what says the assembly?

 

I agree on the 4 different versions of yes.....in our Fantasy Hero Campaign we had Channelers (ala Robert Jordons WoT)....there were no set spells for those Channelers to use....you made a roll on a table at character creation...found what your sphere of specialty was (ie Fire, Water, etc) then you built Spells with points. It was great because you could specialize your dude/dudette to throw unique spells. With Hero I was able to make (I've used this example before but it's worth repeating) a Feline rogue really bad ass with knife attacks....normally knife attacks do a d6 certain knives do d6-1....but the concept of the character was that he was an acrobatic fighter....he'd leap off a crate, land on his feet (breakfall), go into a front roll (acrobatics) then come out of it nailing his target in the stomach with two daggers (hit location, attack roll, modifiers because of hit location, two handed attack because of natural Feline ambidexterity). Because of all of that, the GM would usually grant me and extra damage class on the weapons...reasoning: momentum of the attack, shock value of the speed of the attack (he's on a crate, next thing you know you have two daggers in your gut). All of that was built into the character with the skills I purchased for him plus the benefits of the Feline Race package that I had to buy as well. That's just an example of how to get creative with character generation.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

Yeah' date=' ever since the only guy in my group who liked GURPS moved to Oklahoma, I haven't much kept up on it. I didn't even know there was a 4th edition of it. I had no idea it had made substancial changes to make it even more Hero-like. Afterall, Hero changed very little from 4th to 5th.[/quote']

 

True, but when Hero went from 3rd to 4th it became more GURPS-like by consolidating the rules in one book and then publishing genre books.

 

The two games have influenced each other back and forth throughout their histories. Sean Pulver, one of the main GURPS 4th ed authors, is also a Hero fan.

[nexus]

Re: Sell me on HERO 5th ed.

 

GURPS is like eating in a very good restaurant or maybe a big Food Court. There is allot of variety but, aside from limited special orders, you have to get what's on the menu.

 

HERO is like a well stocked, well equipped kitchen. You can make practically anything you want but you do allot of the work yourself which can take longer.

 

Both of them have been moving towards the other recently with GURPS getting more build options and HERO more books of pregen tools (Spells, super powers, gadgets, etc).

 

GURPS tends to perform better at the Gritty to Cinematic realism level while Hero works better at the cinematic realism to Superheroic and higher level. Both can be tweaked to do the other though.

 

All the above is IMO and IME, of course.