When, if ever, would your character kill?

[Shadow Hawk]

And I don't mean 'by accident', or 'I didn't know he had a weak heart'. Under what circumstances would your character choose to take a (recognizably) human life?

 

For my own characters...

Shadow Hawk was a government operative, and would kill to 'complete the mission'. Sometimes the mission was 'go kill this person'.

 

Goliath never intentionally killed anyone. But he had a 80str, never pulled his punches, and kept hitting people until they went down. So, he killed lots of people... but never intentionally.

 

Steel Panther would only do it to save a family member OR a large group of innocent bystanders... and then he would try everything in his arsenel to avoid it.

 

El Mago wouldn't. His powers are such that he has plenty of non-lethal alternatives.

 

Colonel Tank, as a former soldier, would do so to protect innocents. In fact, he might do so even if there were other choices, in a 'shoot first, then figure out the right answer' sort of way.

[Pizza Man]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Neither Black Falcon nor Psidestep have any points in a code vs killing. Nor do they have any code of conduct.

 

Black Falcon has no lethal (to the living) power. She can induce unconsciousness, but would have to resort to other means to kill. That said, she would choose not to kill mainly because the mainstream hero community depends on a good relationship with the police. that relationship means she can have a secret ID that protects her from litigation, and the police who are public retain the power of life and death decisions.

 

Are there times when she would kill? Yes. If it came to a choice between letting a hostage die and killing the criminal, she would kill without hesitation. If the Law enforcement community would not understand, then she would retire, and they could handle the super villains. frankly she is not worried about it-without a super killing power she feels she won't be crossing that line.

Psidestep is a different case. He was a slave fitted with loyalty nanites and brainwashed to be a spy for the Empress Istvatha V'Han. His mutant nature allowed him to escape. He wandered for years in the multiverse. He killed in self defense many times. He was not trying to be a hero, but to simply survive.

 

Upon his return to the Champions Universe, he contacted Primus and the Champions themselves. Primus knows all about him, and what he can do. Primus gave him a new secret ID, and Psidestep is a hero today...but Primus is watching. That is what keeps Psidestep in line as a hero. Unlike Falcon, he can't just kill and retire...no. Consequences will come calling for him. Still, he would react much like Falcon in a hostage situation.

 

The Shade has a code vs killing. Not at 20 points but at 15, for just the situation described above. His problem is he is naive about being a hero. He doesn't know it, but The Shade will face real temptation is he ever runs into professional terrorists like the ones who killed school children in Belarus, Russia. People who hurt children are the most likely to make Shade to cross the line.

 

No one is above temptation. The Red Mask taunted Batman because he found it too difficult to kill. Batman responded saying he wouldn't cross the line-not because it was too difficult, but because it was too easy. And that's how I generally play my characters. I don't like to constrain them to 20 point Total Code vs Killing, but on the other hand no character of mine has ever killed-even without the code. Shade only has the code because he believes its what a hero is supposed to have.

[Querysphinx]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Nightwatch is a Texas Ranger. He's a cop, a cowboy cop, but a cop nonetheless. He will kill when legal sanction and the totality of circumstances require it. Generally 1) to defend self 2) to defend others 3) when the law requires it as with an escaping prisoner. He is also, of course bound to stop hitting people when they stop being a threat.

[assault]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Almost all of them: Nazis!

 

Demons, the undead and robots don't count as "recognisably human".

 

I've pretty much switched from CvK to "Code of the (X Age) Hero" on all my characters now. The only problem is that it can be a bit hard to define such codes sufficiently to prove whether or not they've been broken. Still, you can't go too far wrong with "What would Batman or Superman do?" This even works in an Iron Age setting, where the answer is "Not what Iron Age characters would do".

[phoenix240]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

There are variations and individuals have people, places and ideals they'd be more likely to kill for but in general I play my characters as police officers when regarding lethal force. They try to avoid it and don't like to use it but will if it becomes nessecary. From a certain stand point, all Champions characters that aren't using Stun Only attacks Entangles, etc, are using "lethal force" its just that most of their opponents are built to take it and it difficult to accidentally kill someone in Hero System at the superhero level.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Cougar: Kill to Protect Innocents.

 

Riot: Kill only by accident.

 

TK Jones: Kill only by accident.

 

Most of my characters have a less version of "Code vs Killing".

 

Killing in Battle is one thing, but killing/executing a Villain.

 

The Joker, however I would make sure he had an "accident".

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[Gent]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Varn might kill alien or dimensional invaders if the invasion were sufficiently brutal to trigger his memories of the invasion of his homeworld. However, he could also be reduced to a nervous wreck if those memories are triggered.

 

Iron Crusader would kill Naga, the supervillain who killed his parents and sister, if Naga threatened his family.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Every character: Only when absolutely necessary to save another life.

[Querysphinx]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Also, in the Current Chronicles of the Agency game featuring Nightwatch, villains don't so much die as a de-rez.

[Badger]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Badger- To him death is a possible outcome to battle, if you arent prepared to deal with that possibility then dont fight him. Not that he seeks to kill. And since he is a former villain that has been pardoned the team leader keeps him in check mostly if need be. But, Badger will never be broken up with guilt if he did kill an opponent. (well, if he faces his archnemesis that outcome MUST end in death one or the other, for reasons of familial vengeance).

[Enforcer84]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Most of my characters would kill to save innocents.

Draw the line at killing for vengeance.

or kicks.

or...he was in the way of my

[fbdaury]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Cannot remember having a character ever kill anyone but I did have one that was an interesting case study in nature vs nurture in that regard (sort of). His name was Hairtrigger- he was an amnesiac who appeared to be in his late teens and who was attending a school for teen supers. He had a lot of skills he was unaware of until they were needed (such as fluency in Spanish), a flair for fashion design, and a dark (initially unknown) past that brought a whole lot of angst.

 

Upon recieving his school entry medical, it is discovered that in addition to the nannite laced arms that can turn into nearly any weapon he could concieve of, he was also a mutant who had been genetically manipulated- his powers originally would have been of a healing nature, the ability to diagnose any disease/injury/condition of a person by sight and determine the best possible way to heal the person in question (medically- no healing powers). However, that power was altered to become the ability to sense any flaws/weaknesses/vulnerbilities of the target so that his arms would become the most effective weapon possible against that target, and his eyesight became super-accurate gunsight vision.

 

The fun of this particular character was that he knew he had done horrible things, but not what- he was certain he had killed in his past and swore never to kill another human (total CVK vs humans). But he also had hardwired "ambush/adrenaline" reflexes that would kick in when surprised, angered, etc. This was modeled as an Accidental Change effect on his weapon pool arms that would shift them into a lethal "default mode" on a failed roll and attack the source of the stimulus that caused the change.

 

Well, in a school full of teens with powers there were many close calls, and on more than one case his penchant for using nonlethal attacks on classmates that annoyed him got him into serious trouble. When it came to adventuring, most of the time he ended up using nonlethal attacks of various sorts- he only ever really ramped up to the killing attacks on the occasions they faced monsters, alien bugs, etc. and at these times he was litterally the death machine that kept the rest of the team alive vs horrific odds/attackers.

[input.jack]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

 

Goliath never intentionally killed anyone. But he had a 80str, never pulled his punches, and kept hitting people until they went down. So, he killed lots of people... but never intentionally.

 

 

He had an 80 STR and NEVER pulled his punches. Everyone he killed, by definition he killed intentionally. Every time he made the decision not to pull his punches, he exercised his intentions.

 

Personally,it sounds to me like he should have been brought up on charges of depraved indifference to human life, if he "killed lots of people".

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

He had an 80 STR and NEVER pulled his punches. Everyone he killed' date=' by definition he killed [i']intentionally[/i]. Every time he made the decision not to pull his punches, he exercised his intentions.

 

Personally,it sounds to me like he should have been brought up on charges of depraved indifference to human life, if he "killed lots of people".

 

Seconded. At the very least, this qualifies as negligent homicide.

[phoenix240]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

or...he was in the way of my...

 

"... Change Enviorment:Bloody mess".

 

"What is WRONG with you!?"

 

[Martin2]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Well one of my players (with a code versus killing!!!!) with the NND body "bone warping" power from the Champions power book (which I have explained is a power that inflicts body damage on people with bones and not a break bones power) after downing a powerful oponent said as we can not secure them I will use my power to kill her by breaking her neck. I said it does not work like that it it would not be a good thing to do. They then said OK I will increase my strength and snap her neck then!!!!!

 

Not wanting the campaign going in that direction I managed to stop them doing it. I explained if they wanted to do that sort of thing the campaign changes and the villains become real villains and use their killing attacks all the time. And they do the same thing to you. You go down and they will kill you straight away and not put you in prison explain the evil plan to you before your team mates or UNTIL turn up to rescue you (in comic book style ).

 

I think killing villains is defined by the campaign. If players want to kill people the campaign has to be a kill or be killed campaign. Or it will go in that direction and it has to be wanted by players and the GM. I do not mind accidental deaths but if my players want to kill in cold blood the game changes and they lose the support of the government etc and I am not so happy to run that sort of game.

[Christopher]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Well one of my players (with a code versus killing!!!!) with the NND body "bone warping" power from the Champions power book (which I have explained is a power that inflicts body damage on people with bones and not a break bones power) after downing a powerful oponent said as we can not secure them I will use my power to kill her by breaking her neck. I said it does not work like that it it would not be a good thing to do. They then said OK I will increase my strength and snap her neck then!!!!!

You can certianly deliver a coup de grace with every power that does body, being a NND Does Body makes little difference.

 

But I do agree with with your dislike for gritty, casual-killer or similar campaigns. And your aproach is certainly a good way to handle player that steer that way.

[Enforcer84]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

"... Change Enviorment:Bloody mess".

 

"What is WRONG with you!?"

 

 

Watching heroes punch through agent level mooks' brains had a backlash effect on me.

My brother's former assassin turned hero killed a few supervillains in his day, much to my more Silver Age Brick's eternal dismay. And the one time I was mind controlled and set upon him I nearly killed him. The worst part for Powerman was that he secretly found the fight cathartic.

[Enforcer84]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

He had an 80 STR and NEVER pulled his punches. Everyone he killed' date=' by definition he killed [i']intentionally[/i]. Every time he made the decision not to pull his punches, he exercised his intentions.

 

Personally,it sounds to me like he should have been brought up on charges of depraved indifference to human life, if he "killed lots of people".

 

Seconded. At the very least' date=' this qualifies as negligent homicide.[/quote']

 

Unless he wasn't smart enough to understand...and then he'd have to be pretty dim. Assuming VIPER agents had a total of 12pd (you hit them in the helmet and their armor activated...you're doing 4 body on average.

 

what about street gang members?

 

No offense Shadowhawk but I hope you're referring to superhuman opponents.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

He had an 80 STR and NEVER pulled his punches. Everyone he killed' date=' by definition he killed [i']intentionally[/i]. Every time he made the decision not to pull his punches, he exercised his intentions.

 

Personally,it sounds to me like he should have been brought up on charges of depraved indifference to human life, if he "killed lots of people".

 

Goliath is mentally a 3 year old. "Not guilty by reason of mental incompetence". He should be locked up as a danger to others because he's a 3 year old with a 80 strength (mentally incompetent, physically dangerous.). He's not locked up because he was part of a team of vigilantes who kept him free so they could use him.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Unless he wasn't smart enough to understand...and then he'd have to be pretty dim. Assuming VIPER agents had a total of 12pd (you hit them in the helmet and their armor activated...you're doing 4 body on average.

 

what about street gang members?

 

No offense Shadowhawk but I hope you're referring to superhuman opponents.

 

Most of the people he killed outright were 'thugs' (competent normals, no supergear). And as said above, mentally incompetent. He was almost the comic relief in a gritty vigilante campaign.

[Enforcer84]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Ah. Well that explains it.

[megaplayboy]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Vigilance operates on a "3 strikes" principle--the first time, you get a beating, and a warning. The second time, you wind up in the ER. If you're a hardcore crook(read: violent felon, "hard" drug dealer) in "the life" and stay in the life after the first two strikes, and he sees you again, you're likely to hear a quote from Ezekiel 25:17 before he sends you to the morgue. If faced with lethal force capable of seriously harming him, he will respond similarly. But he will also compile evidence and hand crooks over to the cops to face more conventional justice.

Iron Golem is an ex-special forces guy, who dislikes killing but will do so if he feels its absolutely necessary. Or if he's dealing with really really evil bad guys--like mind flayers who were performing live vivisections on children--a lot of them went splat that day.

Tech Wiz does not have lethal attacks and would likely never resort to killing, he'd always try to find a way to resolve a situation non-lethally.

Edge would kill the **** out of m*****f*****s who got in his way, if the mission was important enough and he couldn't stealth past them. But he's more of a super-agent/super-assassin than a superhero.

Most of my other superhero PCs have more typical SilverAge/BronzeAge sensibilities(either opposed to killing, dislike killing, or at least will do so only in extreme circumstances).

[Orion]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

I don't have any PCs with total code vs killing, and it's doubtful I ever will. NPCs sure, but not PC.

 

Orion is a vigilante targeting Genocide and criminals that would get the death penalty if convicted. Depending on the point of his story arc, and thus his mental stability, he has let most live, has killed everyone in sight, or has done nothing more than provide anonymous tips to other metahumans.

 

Warhawk hunts down drug cartels, and so gun battles are a regular thing. While he has executed a few, he is just as happy with arresting them.

 

Adamant is a former soldier and current secret agent. He'll kill if necessary for the mission, but that's a sign the mission has gone very wrong.

 

Silhouette and Bombshell have killed while protecting innocents, but it greatly affected them. They'd never go into battle intending to do it.

[hfergus]

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

 

Volt would kill in two circumstances: 1) It's a choice between an innocent dying and the violent criminal dyimg. 2)A Joker type on his third killing spree (after 2 imprisonments.) He might hesitate and would mull over it later.

 

Olorin - Well, he's a medieval where life is nasty, brutish and short. He hasn't killed anyone yet, but its a matter of time. If someone ticks him off enough, is violent and he thinks he can get away with it - one dead villian.

 

Black Tiger - uh, he was trained in black ops. He'll do it if he thinks it's necessary, and without hesitation.

 

Leadman - pretty much like Volt, but without much hesitation or reflection.

 

Futurain "Oh wow! He died! Shoot! I forgot you guys do not have healing nanites!" Yup, that would probably be his first kill. Death by forgetfulness. He' hesitatate less than Volt, but more than Leadman - and kill for the same reasons.