DreadDomain Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Methinks this project needs a bit of marketing to create a buzz. Previews and full cover (complete with logo and all) posted here, on rpg.net and wherever would not hurt I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Methinks this project needs a bit of marketing to create a buzz. Sadly, marketing has never been DOJ's strong suit. (See above comments re FLGSes not even knowing Hero was still in business for years.) A shame, since with a narrow market like RPGs there are a lot of low-cost "guerrilla marketing" strategies they could use. Once it's released, then it's time for us fanboys & fangirls to pimp it, running convention and demo games wherever we can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Yeah I don't see much point in marketing until it's released, at least at the scale of Hero Games. Trying to manage a bunch of pre-orders or constantly provide updates on the status of the print run probably won't see a lot of return for HG. It'll take a lot of time, and probably anyone who's going to buy it knows it's coming already. I hope to have a review up at RPG.net after CC releases, and also I hope to run an introductory game there too, maybe using Google hangout or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Ain't nothing stopping us from sounding the charge. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Well there's no product to sell yet. Once the product is listed in the store, you'll be able to send folks a link so they can see and buy the book. At least for RPG.net, I don't see much point in posting a lot of stuff there until a product is out. There'll be plenty of time once it's actually available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I had too much experience waiting for vaporware back in the day to want to see DOJ suffer the ravages of too much advance hype and too little product to show for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I had too much experience waiting for vaporware back in the day to want to see DOJ suffer the ravages of too much advance hype and too little product to show for it. The interesting thing is that once CC is released, there'll be a lot of product available for it (Champions Powers, Champions Villains, Champions Universe, War of Worldcraft, King of the Mountain, Pretty Hate Machines, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete The interesting thing is that once CC is released' date=' there'll be a lot of product available for it (Champions Powers, Champions Villains, Champions Universe, War of Worldcraft, King of the Mountain, Pretty Hate Machines, etc.)[/quote'] That brings up an interesting question: what problems if any will new players run into using existing 6ed books with CC, assuming they don't have the 6ed core books? When 5er came out, some of the material in the 5ed books needed minor editing. (Can't think of specific examples off the top of my head.) From what Derek has said, it sounds like the changes from 6ed to CC will be even less significant than from 5ed to 5er. But he said there are a couple of name changes: Naked Advantage, Radio Perception, and such. If those are the most significant changes, then it may be a simple matter of posting errata sheets online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete That brings up an interesting question: what problems if any will new players run into using existing 6ed books with CC' date=' assuming they don't have the 6ed core books? When 5er came out, some of the material in the 5ed books needed minor editing. (Can't think of specific examples off the top of my head.) From what Derek has said, it sounds like the changes from 6ed to CC will be even less significant than from 5ed to 5er. But he said there are a couple of name changes: Naked Advantage, Radio Perception, and such. If those are the most significant changes, then it may be a simple matter of posting errata sheets online.[/quote'] There will be a "Converting Characters to Champions Complete" freebie doc available online. And while it does note differences to take note of (such as they are), it also points out that characters built for 6E don't really need to be "converted" at all to use them with Champions Complete... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Yeah but with some folks just changing the way something is written is enough to cause nigh perma brain lock. Disadvantages to Complications for example. Either way. Ready to buy some books so let's Roll! ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete The interesting thing is that once CC is released' date=' there'll be a lot of product available for it (Champions Powers, Champions Villains, Champions Universe, War of Worldcraft, King of the Mountain, Pretty Hate Machines, etc.)[/quote'] Thank you for choosing some of my products among those listed. I appreciate your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Perfect, thanks Derek! Now all we need is a release date... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Perfect' date=' thanks Derek! Now all we need is a release date... [/quote'] "Fall 2012." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete It IS Fall though.... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete It IS Fall though.... ~Rex Not Fall enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Well, winter begins on Dec. 21st, so it'll be out before that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete So, Dec. 20th! Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete So....CC comes out and the world ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete HOW did I know that DOJ was somehow going to be responsible for it after all. Those Mayans were onto something, I knew they were (I think maybe they are upset they never got their own supplement.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete DOJ = Galactus. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete DOJ. Day Of Judgement. We should have known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm psyched about CC now thanks to this thread. That said, having read some of the recent discussion on supplement ideas, I picture something like this: every supplement is either a Beginner or an Advanced supplement. Beginner supplements assume that the player knows nothing about the CC rules or the CU setting. Villains, NPCs, and various setting details are introduced in Beginner supplements on a level similar to their entries in Champions Universe and Champions Villains. Furthermore, almost all information presented in a supplement is used for a full adventure which helps the reader better understand how CC plays. Advanced supplements kick things up a notch. They assume the reader generally knows the HERO rules and that they know something about the setting. Advanced settings tend to reuse villains, NPCs, and settings from prior supplements and recommend the reader collect those supplements for more information. A villain, NPC, and/or setting(s) are likely to be reintroduced with a more advanced build and given more and deeper details than they would in a Beginner supplement; detail akinto Book of the Destroyer, VIPER: Coils of the Serpent, or Champions Beyond. Every supplement is compatible with another and can interconnect. In essence, the GM builds their own Champions Universe. Beginner Module Example: There could be a Basic level module that introduces Doctor Destroyer on a level akin to his CV1 entry. You get to know something about him, his basic agents, and maybe Black Talon armors or Gigaton or so. It is all easily reusable info for homebrew adventures, but this supplement uses all of that information for a complete adventure that guides the new GM in the ways of running HERO. Advanced Module Example: A future supplement could come out that features Doctor Destroyer again. This time, he might involve some of his henchmen introduced in BotD and maybe some more or new varieties of his minions. We get to learn stuff about them now, but that sounds light on information, doesn't it? What if DD's plot is so big that UNTIL gets involved, and thus UNTIL becomes the focus of the book? The UNTIL information is basic enough, but you need to have the prior DD module to properly use him in this adventure. That said, I don't think it would be wrong to still include all relevant character sheets no matter the level. Furthermore, I think any given supplement in that scheme could use a page or so of additional plot seeds and hooks for the villains and other characters presented. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm psyched about CC now thanks to this thread. That said, having read some of the recent discussion on supplement ideas, I picture something like this: every supplement is either a Beginner or an Advanced supplement. Beginner supplements assume that the player knows nothing about the CC rules or the CU setting. Villains, NPCs, and various setting details are introduced in Beginner supplements on a level similar to their entries in Champions Universe and Champions Villains. Furthermore, almost all information presented in a supplement is used for a full adventure which helps the reader better understand how CC plays. Advanced supplements kick things up a notch. They assume the reader generally knows the HERO rules and that they know something about the setting. Advanced settings tend to reuse villains, NPCs, and settings from prior supplements and recommend the reader collect those supplements for more information. A villain, NPC, and/or setting(s) are likely to be reintroduced with a more advanced build and given more and deeper details than they would in a Beginner supplement; detail akinto Book of the Destroyer, VIPER: Coils of the Serpent, or Champions Beyond. Every supplement is compatible with another and can interconnect. In essence, the GM builds their own Champions Universe. Beginner Module Example: There could be a Basic level module that introduces Doctor Destroyer on a level akin to his CV1 entry. You get to know something about him, his basic agents, and maybe Black Talon armors or Gigaton or so. It is all easily reusable info for homebrew adventures, but this supplement uses all of that information for a complete adventure that guides the new GM in the ways of running HERO. Advanced Module Example: A future supplement could come out that features Doctor Destroyer again. This time, he might involve some of his henchmen introduced in BotD and maybe some more or new varieties of his minions. We get to learn stuff about them now, but that sounds light on information, doesn't it? What if DD's plot is so big that UNTIL gets involved, and thus UNTIL becomes the focus of the book? The UNTIL information is basic enough, but you need to have the prior DD module to properly use him in this adventure. That said, I don't think it would be wrong to still include all relevant character sheets no matter the level. Furthermore, I think any given supplement in that scheme could use a page or so of additional plot seeds and hooks for the villains and other characters presented. Thoughts? i see you logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Not knowing CC Rules would make it difficult to play any supplement unless you were planning on using them with another system (and just wanted plot ideas). Champions Complete is basically the new format for 6ed, and reprinting all of that information in EVERY new supplement you want to classify as "beginner" would be cost prohibitive (both to the company and the consumer). Any new supplements should really operate under the assumption that you already own/have a copy of CC (or similar). Also there are different types of supplements. You seem to be talking about adventure supplements exclusively. If that is the case then honestly every supplement should stand alone (outside of the need of CC). If you are buying an adventure supplement enough info about any hero/villain/locale should be available in that supplement to run the game as is, without needing to buy another supplement just to use the one you just bought. Nothing wrong with "further information" listings, but if you basically said "You are fighting Dr. Destroyer. Here is his character sheet for this adventure. If you want any info on him please go spend more money and buy this supplement...." you are quickly going to loose customers. There should be at least enough info so that someone who is new to the character can get a decent handle on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete When I say "Beginner" I mean that the reader does have CC but they could use context. "Beginner" modules would not reprint the rules but would show how they work in actual play and GMing. Now that I reread my post though, I forgot to mention my suggestion of $5-6 prices ($3-4 digital). The modules I envision wouldn't justify $10+ purchases as they would be far too short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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