Magic Makes You Evil

[Steve]

I'm in the process of working up a setting where those who use magic are all varying shades of evil, but I'm not sure how to accomplish it with Hero mechanics.

 

Basically, as a character uses magic items and casts spells, it causes a corresponding corrosive effect on their souls. Past a certain point of such activity, there is no coming back. The effect I am thinking of is kind of like how the "Call of Cthulhu" RPG treats magic. In that game, magic use causes increasing insanity. So while it is possible to have a PC who uses magic in the setting I am creating, it must be done with the understanding that the character is walking a road with a destination of them eventually becoming an evil monster in human form.

 

That said, while every old spellcaster is a wicked terror in the setting, I am considering a way to stave off the corrosive effect of magic on a person. I am thinking of using something like out of the "Highlander" movies. Killing a sorcerer releases an energy that a sorcerer who isn't too far gone can use to cleanse their souls of a certain amount of the corrosion.

 

Given those ideas, would it be better to use a spell limitation of some kind, a character complication required of all sorcerers, or some combination?

[Lord Liaden]

If it were up to me, I'd probably require a Transform Side Effects Limitation for all spells, resulting in a Psychological Complication, "Evil" (define to taste). The sorceror's death-energy etc. would be a means to undo the Transform.

[L. Marcus]

Yah. A Spiritual Transform Side-Effect, Minor if the character can continue as a PC, Major if he becomes a NPC.

[Markdoc]

I actually used something like this in the last campaign. Not all spellcasters were inherently evil, but there was a style of magic (employing a multipower) which tended to push some of them that way. The multipower allowed casters who used that style of magic to "tap" significantly more power (active points) than ordinary spellcasters, but it required a skill roll and on a failed roll, the caster got hit with a transform. Depending on their patron (casters using this style of magic had an otherworldly patron who could teach them spells) the transform would affect Body, Soul or Mind, gradually warping them physically or mentally. They could acquire strange physical deformations (tentacles, extra eyes, extraplanar holes in their body that housed parasitic creatures, etc), mental quirks leading to madness or vulnerabilities to holy objects, ability to see things that might or might not actually be there etc.

 

Essentially, the transform represents accumulated eldritch debt.

 

Users of this style of magic could avoid (or at least delay) their transformation in several ways.

1. Moderation. Don't use magic too much, and don't try to cast too powerful spells. As long as you can make your spell skill rolls, you're OK. Of course, few mages can do this: the whole point of this style of magic is access to gonzo power levels, after all. And the ease of boosting up spells in your multipower, tempts users to push it to the limit - or a bit beyond

2. Scapegoating. If you can persuade someone to accept your eldritch debt, you can "heal" the transform damage by giving it to them. If you do this early on, your scapegoat might not even take any harm from it, especially if they are not a spellcaster themselves. They will, however, be psychically marked, by the eldritch debt they are carrying, which at the very least exposes them to the interest of extraplanar creatures

3. You can "heal" the transform damage by accepting a task from your patron. These tasks are almost always odd, usually distasteful and occasionally dangerous. The more eldritch debt you have, the worse the task is likely to be. 

 

This system meant that sorcerors using this style of magic were frequently accused of being demon worshippers, and even if they were not (strictly speaking) evil, at the very least were considered mad, bad and dangerous, simply because they often had to perform bizarre tasks. You might not want to burn down that orphanage, but if you are starting to go blind from magic use, you might feel like you have no choice.

 

Anyway, it worked really well. It made this style of magic risky and pretty sketchy, but half the PCs ended up learning this style of magic simply because it was so powerful and flexible compared to the standard "safe" styles of magic (which used a VPP or spells bought straight). The good thing is I didn't have to deal with problems about "evil". Spellcasters of this style behaved in ways - of their own free will - that made them highly suspect, if not outright hated. That meant in turn isolation, hiding your magic use, and hanging out with fellow cultists were perfectly logical ways for these mages to behave, which just made them even more suspect

 

regards, Mark

[Ninja-Bear]

It might be more complicated but what about creating a new characeristic called soul? It could work similur to BODY. When its 0 you're evil.

[Greywind]

...Dark Side points...

[Michael Hopcroft]

"Black Magic is a matter of symbolism and intent." In Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy series, magic was a combination of the scientific and the spiritual pursuits. What type o mage you were determined your path in life. If you wanted to be a healers and spiritual counselor, you joined the Church and became a priest because you could heal injury and cure sickness through "the laying on of hands". (this also worked for rabbis and Muslim clerics). Those of a more secular bent became Licensed Sorcerers, who had to undergo rigorous academic training and have their practices pass Church examination. Finally, those who believed in expanding their own power base potentially at others' expense turned to Black Magic. This was morally and mentally corrupting and highly illegal. Magic could not be used to kill directly without turning the user to Black Magic, so if sorcerers had to duel they cast non-lethal spells on each other. In addition to facing the wrath of the law, someone caught using Black Magic could have their powers taken away (or more likely sealed off to avoid use) so they could not do it again.

 

Since the Lord Darcy stories were murder mysteries, people were frequently asking the protagonists, a detective and mage who worked for the Crown, whether magic was used in the commission of the crime being investigated -- implying that there is still some distrust of magic. Usually these were red herrings, even when Black Mages were involved in the affair. The forensic sorcerer Master Sean routinely detected evil presences using items like ankhs (ankhs detect evil, but crosses dispel it), but was quick to point out magic's limitations -- you couldn't have too many spell effects going at the same time, for example. But a forensic sorcerer can and did gain a lot of information about crime scenes by magic that are done scientifically in our world. You could even run a test to see the last thing a murder victim saw when alive, but this was unreliable. When Lord Darcy had Master Sean do it in the first story of the series, he already knew who the killer was -- and had already decided to let her get away with it because the crime was in his mind completely justified (and committed in self-defense) -- the "victim" was a serial womanizer who happened to be the local lord, had routinely abused his position to compel women to do his bidding, and had a fetish that was decidedly unhealthy.

 

Garrett's Lord Darcy predated D&D and Star Wars by a good five years.

[Steve]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

 

I suppose I could approach the spirit damage as hitting EGO or create a new stat called SOUL. The latter might be closest to the effect I am going for.

 

If I use a skill roll with magic, I suppose that would mean that a more skilled sorcerer does not corrode their souls as fast. The current damage rating I am considering is 1 point of Transformation effect for every 20 Active Points in the spell.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I have used such methods before.

 

In the Fantasy campaign that I normally use (Terry K. Amthor's The Shadow World) there is Essaence that powers magic. It's polar opposite is "The Unlife" which works much like the Dark Side of The Force. The more you use it and call upon it, the deeper into darkness your heart will fall.

 

I use a Side Effect attached to their Magic Pool, built as Transform vs EGO. Whenever the cast spells, they get 1D6 transform Dice for every 30 Active points in the spell. The Transform recovers per month (Soul Recovery stat is invisible and is based on EGO/5+PRE/5) and as long as they don't go over double their EGO, they are okay, though once the Transform exceeds EGO, they begin to show signs of the Darkness touching them deeply.

 

I use a similar method for Jedi turning to the Dark Side when I play Star Wars. It works perfectly. Give it a shot.

[Penthau]

Make a new stat called Sanity. Certain spells use it as a resource for casting, like END, but it recovers very slowly or only when you do certain actions, if at all. When you run out, you are insane and it stops recovering it. If you use dangerous spells too frequently, you are more likely to become insane. Infrequent use is relatively safe, but maybe have a side effect of increased use on a failed roll.

[Steve]

Hmmm. Another possibility occurs to me.

 

The skill roll is simply to see if the magic causes a corrosion effect. Spells always work, but failing the skill roll means the sorcerer lost another bit of their soul/sanity in casting it. It would be kind of like a burnout effect, I suppose.

 

Certain spells may not cause direct soul loss, but they could cause a side effect of magic skill penalty, the sorcerer becoming more vulnerable to the soul burn effect. Cast one or two of those and then cast a spell with a soul loss side effect, and watch the sorcerer go insane more quickly.

 

Perhaps temporary bouts of insanity could occur during the trip down to make things more ineresting. They could be warnings to ease off on the magic use and recover. Hmm, now that I think about it. that reminds me a bit of 'Quiet' from Ars Magica.

[sinanju]

If I were going to do something like this, I'd just make a campaign rule that a certain level of power (Active Points) in a spell required a certain level of vicimization of an innocent. Or maybe your powers work off of an END Reserve, which can only be refilled by doing horrible things to innocent people. Want to power up?

 

Torment that helpless farmboy. Mock him for his ignorance, stutter/limp/looks/whatever.

 

That widower you've been courting for just such a situation? Time to dump her in the worst, most painful, most humiliating way possible--and then revel in the power of her tears.

 

Want a really big/quick jolt of power? An evening of torture works wonders, though it requires isolation and privacy. Or maybe a nice bit of rape.

 

For the biggest charge, of course, a human sacrifice is always a good way.

 

In this version, I admit, it's not so much that magic makes you evil as only evil people are willing to do what it takes to be good at magic. Your average magic-user is going to be a Grade-A ***hole. The most potent magic-users are going to be sociopaths. Have fun with that world.

[SKJAM!]

For the one setting I used where "witches" were always evil, the main character, a witch hunter, eventually pieced together that it was the use of magic that turned one evil.  And that at some point in the past, it hadn't done that.  What was going on is that witches drew on a power source outside themselves, and a certain being whose behavior was strikingly similar to the popular idea of the Devil had managed to gain control of the "pipeline."  Thus his corrupting influence was pumped into each witch whenever they used magic for anything, and he could control how much power they could draw.  Only by pledging service to the being by whatever name you felt comfortable with could you gain access to the higher power spells.

[bluesguy]

The Valdorian Age uses a system where anyone using magic (priests or mages) had to pay for it with 'favors' to various otherworldly beings.  At some point those beings call in the favors.  Not paying up could have very dire consequences.

 

I ended up not using that system in my VA campaign mostly because I didn't want to deal with the book keeping I would have to deal with as a GM and figuring out ways that the players woul d have to pay off their favors.

[JasonPacker]

My mind definitely went to the Transform Side Effect - one with a cumulative effect, so that the first few spells do nothing, then suddenly you've accrued enough points to have added a 10 or 15 point psych lim. Maybe have it heal like BODY until the threshold is hit, upon which point some sort of permanent corrective action is required to remove the complication.

[dmjalund]

wouldn't any known mages have the appropriate reputation, irrespective of how affected they are.

[JasonPacker]

wouldn't any known mages have the appropriate reputation, irrespective of how affected they are.

Some manner of social complication is warranted, whether it be "he's a wizard and could go bad" or "he's a wizard who has already gone bad"

[Christopher]

To continue on other posters ideas:

Side Effect (1D6 Severe Mental Transform, Partial Effect, Into Evil NPC, 22 AP)

 

Keep in mind that you can finetune Severe Transforms, same cost structure as KA's. You could go down to 1/2d6 or 1 pip of Transform effect, if you want too.

 

The advantage of this appraoch is that as you accumulate points of effect you get a growing Complication:

The Cosmetic Level Effect could be that you register as "Evil" for the "Detect Evil" Powers of the Setting.

Minor & Major Transform give appropirately strong psychological Complications.

When you reach full Severe effect level you turn yourself into "A Willing Slave to Evil", wich makes your Character a NPC.

[Michael Hopcroft]

.

When you reach full Severe effect level you turn yourself into "A Willing Slave to Evil", wich makes your Character a NPC.

Unless all the PCs are Willing Slaves to Evil, in which case I would want nothing to do with that campaign. 

[Christopher]

Unless all the PCs are Willing Slaves to Evil, in which case I would want nothing to do with that campaign. 

If PC's are already evil, being turned evil by magic is not a valid side effect or limitation in the first place. Because by definition they would be immune to it.

[Lucius]

So that a totally corrupted mage, at the point of becoming fully irredeemably evil, loses all power.

 

Wow.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Transform to Palindromedary

[Michael Hopcroft]

If PC's are already evil, being turned evil by magic is not a valid side effect or limitation in the first place. Because by definition they would be immune to it.

Depends on how you define the contagion. Even characters fanatically devoted to evil have something to lose. Their free will, for example -- even the rattiest of rat bastards does not want to be an extra-dimensional monster's puppet. They might not mind being a servant so much, but a servant would have some free will still.

 

Of course, there's also the matter of a Faustian bargain, in which you gain power for a time but then the entity you made the bargain with grabs you and takes you to his realm of pain, misery and endless suffering. There can be little previews of that within the campaign, as you afflict the character with a select few of the delightful torments waiting for him. That might be enough to get him to "reconsider" his "life choices".

[superferret]

I'd have the player make a sanity (EGO) Roll at  -1 for every 20 active points in the spell that the character casts a spell.
Failing the roll gives the character 1 point towards a Limitiation of the GM's choosing, e.g. "Soul belongs to .....", "Beserk", and/or reducing an advantage.
Success has no effect on the slide to "the dark side".