Government team origins

[Hermit]

Hopefully I've got the polll working for this one. If it is up, it should be self explanatory.

 

I have a few ideas on how to assemble a 'government sponsored team' and I am curious which one folks think they'd like best. Probably the best answer would be a 'mix of the above' but I left that off deliberately to force folks to make a stand

[Soleil Noir]

Of the options presented, the "cloned Golden Age" one seems the best/most reasonable.  I'm reminded of when Steve Rogers resigned as Captain America when the government wanted him back on active duty during the 1980's, and they tapped the Super-Patriot (now the USAgent) to be his replacement -- Cap is such an American icon that they couldn't NOT have a Captain America running around, but it gave the chance to fill the role with someone with a different set of values (John Walker was a Reagan-era Republican, as opposed to Rogers' New Deal Democrat) and some mighty big shoes to fill...

 

The "Surviving 10" one also has a good degree of verisimilitude -- not just anyone has the mental fortitude to be a Navy SEAL or Green Beret, so the government would start with recruiting applicants with the proper mindset first and worry about the powers later -- but I don't know how many volunteers you'd get with a 90% mortality rate.  Not to mention the question of how they'd get funding in the first place -- I have a hard time imagining any Congressman taking that big a risk to his reelection potential by signing off on the plan, unless maybe there's already a prototype soldier in place who's gotten some PHENOMENAL results.

 

Option #2 sounds like throwing good money after bad -- again, I'm not sure the public would trust the federal government to fix the original disaster by letting them enact an even bigger super-soldier program...

 

The "Suicide Squad" approach has some precedent in the comics and other media (e.g.; "Inglorious Basterds"); I think it'd have to be a covert team, though, or you're going to run into a similar PR problem -- bad enough we've potentially got convicted felons handling sensitive personal information as Obamacare "navigators"; how much more potential for disaster could there be, entrusting people's lives to them...?

 

Option #5 also has potential, although post-9/11 there might be a lot of scrutiny and skepticism focused on the team.  Have you ever looked at the GURPS IST (International Super Teams) setting?  It's a bit like you're describing, only it's a worldwide exchange run by the United Nations, with embassy superteams in every member nation.  In GURPS IST, the UN is able to get the member nations to go along with allowing foreign supers flexing their muscle within their borders because the UN controls the patent on nuclear fusion technology -- play ball with them and give up a little bit of your sovereignty, and access to cheap, renewable energy is all yours...

 

Anyhow, that's just off the top of my head.

[Hermit]

Let's see

 

A few more thoughts...

Option #1: Change the numbers if you like...make it ten out of a hundred thousand if you like. It may seem a little 'sir, yes sir' for some players, but if you need to expand, remember government workers can include mailmen and ladies at the DMV. How would a marine feel fighting beside a super powered meter maid and/or census taker? Heck, a senator's daughter could have undergone the process. Does she get coddled despite her new found nigh invulnerability? And does she see such treatment as her due, or does it royally tick her off?

 

Option #2: In some ways this is the laziest option in my opinion, but probably the one i expect most players will like. You make your character anyway you like, and mean while, the NPCs the govt tried to empower have gone evil, or nuts and the govt needs you to fix their mistakes. It's kind of nice to have the govt by the short hairs sometimes instead of vice versa.

 

Option #3: This one, you probably want to talk to the players and ask them how you want to have it played out. Do they want the memories to be exact, or scattered. Do they want the memories from a past life at all or do they just have the bodies and abilities in common and thus feel very detached from the originals? Do they resent the Govt scientists playing God, or are they loving a chance to get out of the lab and knock some heads? Are they thinking about rebelling?

 

Option #4: Innocent men convicted of crimes they didn't commit alongside ex-scum who now repetent and those who are only pretending to be repetent certainly opens a lot of options for pcs. One could rip off the sucide squad with bombs in the base of the neck , that sort of thing, but what works in comics doesn't always work in games, and besides, I get the feeling the mass murderers wouldn't be among the team anyway. Would the ex-villains find themselves with new code names and costumes so the public was none the wiser? Or would they be facing a public that knows what they were and fears them?

 

Option #5: "Service brings Citizenship-Would you like to know more?" There's always the chance the US government could deny these guys their chance. It wouldn't be the first time a government yanked someone around. Would there be gripes by the public about 'foriegn superheroes we can't trust, there are even aliens among them!' or would it be seen as proof the American dream could be earned through good deeds? Are the heroes doing this for just themselves, or does the deal included loved ones? Maybe that hero from a third world country doesn't give a darn about America, but he'll fight like the devil for the chance to get his kids a better life here. etc. And how do other governments feel about the US 'poaching' their supers?

[Hermit]

Of the options presented, the "cloned Golden Age" one seems the best/most reasonable.  I'm reminded of when Steve Rogers resigned as Captain America when the government wanted him back on active duty during the 1980's, and they tapped the Super-Patriot to be his replacement -- Cap is such an American icon that they couldn't NOT have a Captain America running around, but it gave the chance to fill the role with someone with a different set of values and some mighty big shoes to fill...

 

The "Surviving 10" one also has a good degree of verisimilitude -- not just anyone has the mindset to be a Navy SEAL or Green Beret, so the government would start with recruiting applicants with the proper mindset first and worry about the powers later -- but I don't know how many volunteers you'd get with a 90% mortality rate.  Not to mention the question of how they'd get funding in the first place -- I have a hard time imagining any Congressman taking that big a risk to his reelection potential by signing off on the plan, unless maybe there's already a prototype soldier in place who's gotten some PHENOMENAL results.

 

Option #2 sounds like throwing good money after bad -- again, I'm not sure the public would trust the federal government to fix the original disaster by letting them enact an even bigger super-soldier program...

 

The "Suicide Squad" approach has some precedent in the comics and other media (e.g.; "Inglorious Basterds"); I think it'd have to be a covert team, though, or you're going to run into a similar PR problem.

 

Option #5 also has potential, although post-9/11 there might be a lot of scrutiny and skepticism focused on the team.  Have you ever looked at the GURPS IST (International Super Teams) setting?  It's a bit like you're describing, only it's a worldwide exchange run by the United Nations, with embassy superteams in every member nation.

 

Anyhow, that's just off the top of my head.

 

Just what I was looking for. Thanks. Sorry, I was putting up a second post when yours came up. It sounds like you were already ahead of me in more ways than one.

 

Interesting thoughts on the "Process survivors" there. One other thing i thought of, and as an encouragment, what if the process had a chance of curing cancer, or regrowing limbs. What if that which didn't kill you litterally could save your life and make you stronger than before? It might have folks taking a chance as it might count as a 'phenomenal' result as you said.

 

It's been a long time since I've read Gurps supers, but I think I have an old copy laying around somewhere. I may have to dust it off

[kahuna's bro]

I chose the goden age clones

[Soleil Noir]

Just what I was looking for. Thanks. Sorry, I was putting up a second post when yours came up. It sounds like you were already ahead of me in more ways than one.

 

Interesting thoughts on the "Process survivors" there. One other thing i thought of, and as an encouragment, what if the process had a chance of curing cancer, or regrowing limbs. What if that which didn't kill you litterally could save your life and make you stronger than before? It might have folks taking a chance as it might count as a 'phenomenal' result as you said.

 

It's been a long time since I've read Gurps supers, but I think I have an old copy laying around somewhere. I may have to dust it off

 

That's not a bad idea -- maybe they minimize the PR risk by limiting the test subjects to soldiers who have been mortally wounded, or who face spending the rest of their lives in a wheelchair or horribly disfigured.  They'd probably want potential subjects to volunteer and be screened for compatibility well in advance -- sorta like filling out your organ donor card -- so the government can't be accused later on of taking advantage of these wounded warriors when they're distraught and emotionally vulnerable. 

 

And of course, with such a sizable investment in time and resources going into these recruits to save and empower them, that probably also means they're agreeing to a much longer stint working for the government than they might originally have planned on, and it might have an impact on if/when they're allowed to see their friends and loved ones again...

 

EDIT: The idea of only using the process on wounded vets reminded me of a recent story about some researchers at MIT who are close to developing what amounts to a vaccine for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder -- it basically prevents your brain from creating the chemicals that lead you to associate your traumatic memories with the typical panic response, so you can remember what happened to you perfectly but you don't freak out about it.  Maybe the test subjects could be part of the human test trials for the PTSD vaccine -- otherwise you might end up with an entire team of shell-shocked head cases, who can now juggle tanks and shoot death rays in the middle of their panic attacks...

[SKJAM!]

I like the immigration one, though it does need a little something to explain why it was chosen over the others.  Let's see, emergency situation...

 

The idea for fast-tracking immigrants with superpowers has been kicking around for a while, but the bill to allow it has been languishing in Congress for years, shuttled from committee to committee due to every special interest group having their own axe to grind about it.

 

But last Tuesday, Doctor Devious exploded a dimension bomb at the Kirby Awards, where America's best and brightest superheroes were gathered to honor their own.  Now, most of the U.S.'s top heroes are dead, missing, or in healing comas.  There's still plenty of street-level and second-stringer heroes, and they're managing to keep the villains down to a dull roar, but this situation is a huge blow to national security.

 

So Congress finally got off their collective ass and passed the "Service Earns Citizenship" bill, and supers who were in the process of earning citizenship or waiting for their green card are suddenly at the front of the line, provided they'll serve their new country in its time of need.

[Hermit]

Actually, the Dimension Bomb going off would work for a good supplement to a lot of these options I think. Nice (if possibly grim) idea, Skjam

[bluesguy]

I think it would be interesting to create a character who had been a villain and was trying to reform himself.  His ugly past could keep popping up on occasion. 

[Lord Liaden]

The history of the official Champions Universe is actually littered with mostly-failed government projects to create superhuman soldiers: Projects Achilles, Ascension, Perseus, Onslaught, Sunburst, Future Soldier... Most of these had one or few successes, with many failures, some serious physical or mental side effects or even deaths, and a few supervillains resulting. Individual projects were usually halted when it became clear the risks and/or expense were too great for the return. In the case of Sunburst in particular, the project was conducted by "rogue generals" without official authorization. That could be part of Option Two: the government can deny knowledge of the initial experiment, but needs a super force to deal with the fallout quietly to avoid scandal.

 

A different example are the Avengers of PRIMUS. In their case the Cyberline enhancement treatment is effective and without risk of fatality, but only a small percentage of the population is genetically compatible with it.

[Cassandra]

You're missing the "U.S. Government recruits Patriotic Heroes for Team."

 

All of the options imply inherent disaster in the Government creating a team.

[kahuna's bro]

good thinking cassanra

[Soleil Noir]

You're missing the "U.S. Government recruits Patriotic Heroes for Team."

 

All of the options imply inherent disaster in the Government creating a team.

 

That's not an unreasonable assumption -- there's very little the government does that the private sector doesn't do better/more efficiently...

[Cassandra]

In a world where super humans exist most governments would have a superhero team to carry out various law enforcement/military/intelligence gathering missions.  Some groups would be open and used for "Show the Flag/Show of Force" type operations.  Others would be covert, operating in secret.  Those enforcing the law would be sworn into a government agency and serve as agents of either the FBI or a special organization dealing with superhuman crime.

[TheQuestionMan]

The Government places too much trust in Corporate Researchers and the Super Soldier process gets stolen. Sold on the open market or even used on Corporate employed Mercenaries. 

 

American Patriots pass on the Super Soldier process to wealthy Militia Groups. Secretly funded by wealthy individuals or groups outside to the US to destabilize the nation. 

 

Hmmm... 

 

QM 

 

P.S.: RAVEN on the Rise.

[Old Man]

That's not an unreasonable assumption -- there's very little the government does that the private sector doesn't do better/more efficiently...

 

Perhaps the government team should be contracted out then.  Because contractors are so much more efficient than the government. 

[assault]

The third option (Golden Age clones) is reminiscent of the new Justice League 3000 series. And, as the first issue of that has shown, nothing could possibly go wrong.

 

It isn't hard to come up with nasty little twists on this process. What is the role of nurture versus nature? What if some of the samples weren't from who you thought they were? ("We haven't cloned Justice Dude, we've cloned Evil Clown!") and so on.

 

Also, some of the originals may still be alive, while others won't be. What do the originals think about their imitators/successors?

 

Obviously you would ultimately combine aspects of all the options, plus the recruitment of existing patriotic heroes.

[SKJAM!]

For the Dimension Bomb scenario, I'd put the majority of heroes as "missing", so that you can reintroduce them as they straggle back from whatever dimension they got deposited in.  Dead would be just a handful of people the GM doesn't like or has no use for, and healing comas for heroes who would resolve the situation too easily.

[csyphrett]

I voted for the government workers used as guinea pigs because it's something that was done in reality and justifiable in a setting

CES

[IndianaJoe3]

I selected option 1, but I'd probably change it a bit. The, "failures" wouldn't be dead, but the treatment would have had no significant effect, or they would have washed out of the program for other reasons. 

[Lawnmower Boy]

I was going to go for the "cloned WWII superteam" option here, mainly because I wasn't feeling it. Then Hermit made his pitch for the "government-sponsored" superteam, and I'm in. With one condition: no spies, no soldiers, no Special Forces, Treasury agents, Secret Service, FBI. Heck, no NSA. Make them posties and FDA inspectors, janitors and teachers from the Rez. Regular people with regular jobs who happen to work for the Federal Government. Who can suddenly lift tanks, run at Mach 1, and draw forcefields in the air with their noses. (The last is a civil engineer at a Department of the Interior office in Billings who spends most of his time inspecting and approving logging road bridges. Because.) 

[Cassandra]

The Government in Comic Books has several uses.

 

One is to give the Heroes an assignment.  This function was used in the Golden and Silver Ages.  There had to be at least a tacit connection between the Heroes and the Authorities.  The Heroes would deal with the Criminals the Law couldn't touch, and in turn the Law wouldn't go out of its way to capture the Heroes.  

 

Another function of Government is to monitor the activities of the Heroes.  This is connected to the above, but is less helpful.  The Government will require a liaison, and send the Team on missions they might otherwise object to.  These would include public relations functions, or covert operations.  Sometimes a Rogue Government Official will hi-jack the Team for something not approved of, and the Team might find itself involved in illegal activity.

 

Finally, the Government might come in the form of an Opponent.  This would include conventional Law Enforcement or Covert Operators.  They would go after the Heroes' Secret Identities, creating complications in their lives.  A Government Controlled Team could be sent after the Heroes if they were engaged with unapproved of activities.

 

The best examples of above are Task Force X/Suicide Squad, The Force of July (from Batman and the Outsiders), and Freedom Force (from The Avengers).  Many of these groups include super-criminals who some feel are more easily controlled then conventional heroes.  Another example would be Advanced Technology Weapons, such as the Sentinels from the X-Men which the U.S. Government controls and believes it could reprogram for National Defense.  Both options, Criminals or Experimental Technology, are risky and have proven to be unreliable.

[Soleil Noir]

I was going to go for the "cloned WWII superteam" option here, mainly because I wasn't feeling it. Then Hermit made his pitch for the "government-sponsored" superteam, and I'm in. With one condition: no spies, no soldiers, no Special Forces, Treasury agents, Secret Service, FBI. Heck, no NSA. Make them posties and FDA inspectors, janitors and teachers from the Rez. Regular people with regular jobs who happen to work for the Federal Government. Who can suddenly lift tanks, run at Mach 1, and draw forcefields in the air with their noses. (The last is a civil engineer at a Department of the Interior office in Billings who spends most of his time inspecting and approving logging road bridges. Because.) 

 

While a team of heroes who AREN'T all rocket scientists or millionaire philanthropists would make for an interesting campaign, I'd argue that it doesn't pass the "smell test" of what the federal government would be prepared to shell out billions of dollars in order to develop, or who they would invest the necessary trust and expense in -- they don't just grab any Shemp off the street and hand them the launch codes to a nuclear missile silo, or plunk them in the pilot's seat of an F-22.  I'm thinking the scenario could go one of two ways:

 

1.) The government wants serious metahuman operatives who are going to be doing legitimate, highly dangerous missions in the national interest; consequently you're going to need test subjects who can handle the high-stress environment and won't choke under pressure.  Depending on how common the compatibility factor is for the empowerment process, you might have to cast a wide net to get a viable team (e.g.; every pre-employment drug test for a new government worker is also a genetic screening test), but the psychological makeup of the candidates is going to be key and the team is necessarily going to be highly skewed toward the soldiers and intelligence agents who've already demonstrated they can handle the heat; or

 

2.) The program is mainly for show or P.R., or the compatibility for the powers process is SO rare that they have no choice but to accept any viable candidate, regardless of background.  You could then have your mixed bag of DMV office drones and cafeteria workers, but they'd be put on missions where there'd be little chance of or consequences for screwing up, or that would get high publicity with little meaningful results (which might rankle some of the PC's if they thought they'd really be making a difference in the world and are being coddled the whole time).  Or the PC's might be teamed up with one or more "handlers" who keep them from making asses of themselves or take care of the critical parts of the mission behind the scenes.  (I'm reminded of the mid-90's mini-series "Power and Glory" that worked on a similar premise -- the one guy they found who had the compatibility to be given powers was this slimy pervert with a pathological fear of being touched, which made him completely useless as a hero; so they paired him with this CIA operative who did all the heavy lifting while the guy in the cape just showed up to look good on camera...)

[Hermit]

I kind of like the compatability with the non experts idea folks are swinging around. There could indeed be some grumbling from 'real agents' who are a touch envious that some file clerk can now fly

[Enforcer84]

I kind of like the compatability with the non experts idea folks are swinging around. There could indeed be some grumbling from 'real agents' who are a touch envious that some file clerk can now fly

Spies like Us with superpowers?