Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[DasBroot]

Mock it.  The vast majority of Americans (60% polled) aren't even remotely fooled by his act.  And frankly most of his 36% 'approval' base likely isn't as well.  

 

Obama might have had the charisma needed to delay an election for some reason or another.  Trump does not - not even in the face of a hypothetical man made or natural disaster.

 

One thing I do find amusing - Trump's stated that his own approval ratings are a meaningless metric but he's very quick to point out the approval ratings of everyone else - from the Apprentice under Arnold to Senator Flake.

[gewing]

Mock it. The vast majority of Americans (60% polled) aren't even remotely fooled by his act. And frankly most of his 36% 'approval' base likely isn't as well.

 

Obama might have had the charisma needed to delay an election for some reason or another. Trump does not - not even in the face of a hypothetical man made or natural disaster.

 

One thing I do find amusing - Trump's stated that his own approval ratings are a meaningless metric but he's very quick to point out the approval ratings of everyone else - from the Apprentice under Arnold to Senator Flake.

That might be a textbook example of irony. And / or hypocrisy

[Armitage]

Showing once more that it's really all about erasing everything that President Obama did.

 

Trump asked about reversing Obama to rename Denali as Mt. McKinley

 

 

 

President Donald Trump, during a meeting earlier this year with Alaska's two Republican senators, asked about reversing a decision made by the Obama administration and renaming the nation's largest mountain, according to Sen. Dan Sullivan.
...
The meeting came as Trump and the senators discussed several Obama administration moves limiting development in Alaska.
But Trump had one final issue on his mind. "He looked at me and said, 'I heard that the big mountain in Alaska also had -- also its name was changed by executive action. Do you want us to reverse that?'" Sullivan said.

 

Fortunately, they had the sense to say no. 

 

 

 

"Lisa -- Sen. Murkowski -- and I jumped over the desk," Sullivan said. "We said no, no!"
Trump, perplexed that the two Republicans wanted to keep an Obama-era decision, asked why.
"The Alaska Native people named that mountain over 10,000 years ago," Sullivan said. "Denali, that was the name."

 

You have to love his grasp of facts.  "The big mountain in Alaska".  And absolutely flummoxed that they didn't want to reverse it.

 

President Obama's jokes at Trump's expense during the 2011 White House Correspondents Dinner must have really stung.  Most of Trump's actions have been the political equivalent of buying a rival business, shutting it down, and tearing down the building.

[Xavier Onassiss]

In retrospect I think our politics would have been better had Nixon gone to prison and all of his misdeeds fully exposed to public scrutiny. It might have had a stronger deterrent effect upon subsequent administrations(including this one).  It annoys me to no end that the media treats impeachment as the end of the disciplinary process for presidents.  News flash: if a president commits "high crimes and misdemeanors", there's a very strong chance that some of those high crimes are also serious felonies.  It's not only "okay" for presidents, once removed or out of office, to be prosecuted, it's okay for them to be incarcerated too.  It sends the message that no one is above the law in our country.  

 

This is why we have laws.

 

This is corrosive effect of having a class of citizens who are above the law.

 

And this is something everyone should have seen coming decades ago.

 

Now it's probably too late to change course.

[Old Man]

Georgia election server erased after lawsuit filed challenging system security

[Joe Walsh]

Here's a good article by economist Joseph Stiglitz on the rise of monopolies in the modern American economy: how it came about, and the effects thereof.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/america-has-a-monopoly-problem-and-its-huge/

[Nolgroth]

Georgia election server erased after lawsuit filed challenging system security

 

Lotsa BS in that story.

 

"Oh we were upgrading hardware."  

 

"Whatever. If you are that incompetent, you're fired and blacklisted from working any IT or government position ever again. That includes bus driver, crosswalk guard or school cafeteria position. Oh and if you are not that incompetent, you need to stand trial for election tampering. Enjoy your time with "Bubba."

[megaplayboy]

Indictment #1!

[Old Man]

Speculation is that it's against Manafort, to get him to flip. Near as I can tell it's the only way for him to avoid life imprisonment.

[megaplayboy]

We're going to have a Code Brown at the WH this weekend.  

[Iuz the Evil]

Can't the White House just pardon Manafort to keep him from flipping on the POTUS? Not like public opinion is a concern there, by every other action taken to date.

[Sociotard]

Again, I'm impressed how well the White House is pivoting to make this Hillary's scandal, with the unmasking and the funding reveal.

 

And no matter how this plays out, future Republicans will feel justified using Unmasking against opponents, and leaking unsubstantiated dossiers to boot.

[Sociotard]

Can't the White House just pardon Manafort to keep him from flipping on the POTUS? Not like public opinion is a concern there, by every other action taken to date.

Absolutely. There is no limit on his pardon power. And if anybody boobed about it, he'd just say "Mark Rich" and move on.

[Iuz the Evil]

Absolutely. There is no limit on his pardon power. And if anybody boobed about it, he'd just say "Mark Rich" and move on.

My understanding is there is a limit on the pardon, in that he may only pardon Federal crimes (which would apply in this case, so maybe that's splitting hairs). He has no power to pardon State or local offenses.

 

Edit (from DOJ): The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States. A person who wishes to seek a pardon or a commutation of sentence for a state offense should contact the authorities of the state in which the conviction occurred. Such state authorities are typically the Governor or a state board of pardons and/or paroles, if the state government has created such a board.

[megaplayboy]

The thing is, legally speaking, we've never had a realistic scenario where a POTUS abused the pardon power in order to protect himself and his friends from the consequences of serious misconduct. Obstruction of justice and subornation of perjury are very serious offenses.  

Here, Mueller is coordinating with the NY Attorney General in order to head off this very possibility--he will likely "get" at least one key defendant on both federal and state crimes, and therefore box them into testifying regardless of what Trump does. 

Also, if Manafort is indicted for crimes committed before he began working for Trump, whither the "cover story" for such a pardon?  "I'm pardoning this guy for FARA violations and money laundering just because he's a swell guy"?  It's pretty much an explicit admission of guilt for serious crimes if Trump pardons under those circumstances.  Stick a fork in him for 2020, bare minimum, and if the Dems retake the House and Senate in 2018, I'd expect impeachment inquiries to be opened shortly after the swearing in ceremonies.  

[Iuz the Evil]

The thing is, legally speaking, we've never had a realistic scenario where a POTUS abused the pardon power in order to protect himself and his friends from the consequences of serious misconduct. Obstruction of justice and subornation of perjury are very serious offenses.

Here, Mueller is coordinating with the NY Attorney General in order to head off this very possibility--he will likely "get" at least one key defendant on both federal and state crimes, and therefore box them into testifying regardless of what Trump does.

Also, if Manafort is indicted for crimes committed before he began working for Trump, whither the "cover story" for such a pardon? "I'm pardoning this guy for FARA violations and money laundering just because he's a swell guy"? It's pretty much an explicit admission of guilt for serious crimes if Trump pardons under those circumstances. Stick a fork in him for 2020, bare minimum, and if the Dems retake the House and Senate in 2018, I'd expect impeachment inquiries to be opened shortly after the swearing in ceremonies.

I'm calling it now: "Witch hunt, totally unfair. Paul is a good guy, cannot believe charges are true. Why won't investigators look into Crooked Hillary. Sad!" (Pardon by tweet, with actual pardon to follow)

[Nolgroth]

I'm calling it now: "Witch hunt, totally unfair. Paul is a good guy, cannot believe charges are true. Why won't investigators look into Crooked Hillary. Sad!" (Pardon by tweet, with actual pardon to follow)

 

You do a better Trump impression than that Baldwin fellow.

[DasBroot]

Frankly I wouldn't shed a tear if they found something in the investigation that indites her or the Democratic party leadership as well. Investigate away.  Be thorough and let justice reign without partisanship bias  if justice is needed to be meted out.

[gewing]

Lotsa BS in that story.

 

"Oh we were upgrading hardware."  

 

"Whatever. If you are that incompetent, you're fired and blacklisted from working any IT or government position ever again. That includes bus driver, crosswalk guard or school cafeteria position. Oh and if you are not that incompetent, you need to stand trial for election tampering. Enjoy your time with "Bubba."

pr

 

Lotsa BS in that story.

 

"Oh we were upgrading hardware."  

 

"Whatever. If you are that incompetent, you're fired and blacklisted from working any IT or government position ever again. That includes bus driver, crosswalk guard or school cafeteria position. Oh and if you are not that incompetent, you need to stand trial for election tampering. Enjoy your time with "Bubba."

Prosecute, prosecute, Prosecute....

[gewing]

We're going to have a Code Brown at the WH this weekend.  

I wonder what the buffoon will come up with to try to distract attention?

[gewing]

We're going to have a Code Brown at the WH this weekend.  

I wonder what the buffoon will come up with to try to distract attention?

[gewing]

Absolutely. There is no limit on his pardon power. And if anybody boobed about it, he'd just say "Mark Rich" and mo

 

well, mark rich did set a bad example...  pardoning scum whos families are big donors...

[gewing]

Frankly I wouldn't shed a tear if they found something in the investigation that indites her or the Democratic party leadership as well. Investigate away.  Be thorough and let justice reign without partisanship bias  if justice is needed to be meted out.

" A pox on both their houses!"

[Tech priest support]

It feels even worse to me to see General Kelly defending Trump's crass remarks to the mother of that fallen soldier.

That's possibly the worst thing in Trump's cornucopia of vileness. It's not just that he personally is a bloated colostomy bag filled with raw sewage, toxic waste, countless wriggling maggots, plague infested pus and sickening gasses, it's that he seems to corrupt absolutely everything and everyone around him. He just seems to degrade, pollute, toxify, befoul and defile anything exposed to him.

 

He's managed to drag down and debase a general who once had a good reputation into dishonoring himself.

[Nolgroth]

That's possibly the worst thing in Trump's cornucopia of vileness. It's not just that he personally is a bloated colostomy bag filled with raw sewage, toxic waste, countless wriggling maggots, plague infested pus and sickening gasses, it's that he seems to corrupt absolutely everything and everyone around him. He just seems to degrade, pollute, toxify, befoul and defile anything exposed to him.

 

He's managed to drag down and debase a general who once had a good reputation into dishonoring himself.

 

To be fair, General Kelly reached a crossroads where he had a choice to make. Neither was a particularly good choice. One was to do right by the Chain of Command at the expense of the American People while the other was the inverse. He chose the Chain of Command over the People. Trump's vileness put General Kelly there but he himself made that decision. Almost makes me wonder what damning evidence the Trump administration has on him.