Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Cancer]

There are "blue" counties in every state ....

 

Yeah, but we already know that the rest of Texas is just itchin' to do the ideological cleansing to Travis County, and that'd take care of that little detail. Other states might be more discreet about it, but it'd work out the same.

[DasBroot]

Just how many times can a person take a different position in a single paragraph?   President Trump speaking about NAFTA yesterday has to be a record of some sort.  I feel bad for the negotiators.

 

Also - Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau saying afterwards that sometimes the decisions this administration and president make are 'surprising' is probably the biggest understatement in the name of diplomacy I've ever heard.

[Cancer]

"I really like, and in a way, admire him, but I wish he would not have brain storms."

 

Theodore Roosevelt, on Kaiser Wilhelm II, quoted in The Zimmermann Telegram by Barbara Tuchman

 

 

These are the reasons why the current president reminds me of the last Kaiser.

[Old Man]

Trump to end ACA subsidies, instantly kicking millions of poor people off of health insurance and starting the ACA death spiral

[Tech priest support]

I'm hoping a court blocks this.

[Old Man]

After the GOP literally stole a SCOTUS seat?

[Tech priest support]

It just may be time for a real change then.

[Iuz the Evil]

Covered CA plans released their rates yesterday assuming this would happen. It is most heavily impacting people who do not qualify for subsidies, especially in the he silver tier. Covered CA set up a work around to it ncrease subsidies by creating a higher cost plan. People who do not qualify for a subsidy will have more cost effective options outside of the exchange.

 

It will effect about 20% of enrollees. Their rates will go up about 16% unless they buy outside of the exchange.

[DShomshak]

Written for a Canadian magazine with tongue firmly in cheek, so should be read the same way: Is it time for Canada to annex Blue America?

I haven't had time to read this yet, but I've had a similar notion. In brief: There's no legal way for states (or parts of states) to secede, but territory *can* be bought and, presumably, sold. Since the detailed electoral map of the US is Big Cities Blue, Everything Else Red, the US government could sell the big cities to Canada. Maybe sell it to Trump as THE GREATEST, MOST INCREDIBLE REAL ESTATE OF ALL TIME! OF ALL TIME!!!!!

 

The other notion I had for a peaceful dissolution of a Union that doesn't work anymore could be summarized as "reservations for white people."

 

Dean Shomshak

[Xavier Onassiss]

Covered CA plans released their rates yesterday assuming this would happen. It is most heavily impacting people who do not qualify for subsidies, especially in the he silver tier. Covered CA set up a work around to it ncrease subsidies by creating a higher cost plan. People who do not qualify for a subsidy will have more cost effective options outside of the exchange.

 

It will effect about 20% of enrollees. Their rates will go up about 16% unless they buy outside of the exchange.

 

I actually thought it would be worse than this.

[Tech priest support]

In modern American politics, satire and reality have become one and the same.

 

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/13/1706288/-Cartoon-Kill-A-Kid-for-Congress

[CrosshairCollie]

I once commented that I couldn't imagine the US having a more idiotic, incompetent, and outright evil President than GWBush.

I had no idea the country would respond with 'Challenge Accepted'.

 

I find myself wondering if Trump is determined to tear down Obama's legacy because he can't handle the fact that his racist ego can't handle that black guy was ten times the leader, the speaker, the husband, the father, and the man that he could ever DREAM of being.

 

But at least he has a good working diplomatic relationship with the president of the Virgin Islands.

[Lord Liaden]

I never thought that GWB was idiotic or incompetent, and certainly not evil. I do believe he was misguided, but for me the core issue is that he is simply unexceptional. The most powerful office in the world requires and deserves an exceptional occupant. Barack Obama is an exceptional man, whether or not one agrees with his policies. However, in hindsight I doubt he was the best kind of exceptional for the job of President.

 

IMO Donald Trump is a case of entirely the wrong kind of exceptional.

[Tech priest support]

I considered GWB evil when he was asked once how many innocent people he thought had died because of his invasion of Iraq. He blinked, stood silently for a few seconds with an expression much like a possum in a set if headlights, then casually said ”i dunno, 'bout 30,000 or so." Then blinked again as if he'd never thought about it or that anyone would think he'd care.

 

When you can admit you are responsible for the deaths of 30,000 innocent people so utterly non chalantly, you are evil .

[Iuz the Evil]

I never thought that GWB was idiotic or incompetent, and certainly not evil. I do believe he was misguided, but for me the core issue is that he is simply unexceptional. The most powerful office in the world requires and deserves an exceptional occupant. Barack Obama is an exceptional man, whether or not one agrees with his policies. However, in hindsight I doubt he was the best kind of exceptional for the job of President.

 

IMO Donald Trump is a case of entirely the wrong kind of exceptional.

I'm pretty much in this boat. Just thought he was not very bright, and it bothered me to the core of my patriotism to look at the President and think "I'm so much smarter than that guy, bless his heart".

 

I do think he surrounded himself with evil men, who took full advantage.

 

The current occupant strikes me as just another day at the office (I do mental health treatment), which is another issue entirely.

[Tech priest support]

Maybe trump will hurt so many Americans so badly it will teach people tat how they vote and not voting have real consequences.

 

I'm not counting in it as the plutocracy has worked to essentially dumb down the american public so long that stupidity, selfishness and abusiveness are lauded as virtues while intelligence is despised in modern America.

[DShomshak]

Last week, All Things Considered aired a rather interesting report on how Trump weaponizes patriotism in order to bully others and get his way:

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/12/557444641/how-trump-uses-talk-of-patriotisn-to-his-advantage

 

Dean Shomshak

[megaplayboy]

The political vulnerability of Trump's approach, as I see it, is that he is playing to the culture war as the way to get re-elected.  But many of those who voted for him actually did vote out of economic anxiety or desperation, wanting some action to improve their situations--better jobs, better wages, etc.  It seems like he hasn't really done anything to improve their lives in that way.  So a Democratic challenger could pitch a fairly simple trio of economic proposals calculated to make some positive impact in the lives of Americans in general and the working class in particular, and pull votes away from Trump's coalition(which only got him to 46% in the first place).  

[Tech priest support]

Trump has weaponized 3 common and powerful forces: willfull stupidity, willfull ignorance and hate. His whole campaign was based on these and simple solutions to complex problems, often involving violence. Remember his "beat the crap out of him!” and " maybe you second amendment people can do something about it(Hillary Clinton)" while making a rifle firing gesture.

 

 

For decades the right in america has been creating a climate of manufactured fear, manufactured outrage and real hate in america. Remember those cute little "if we outlaw guns how will we shoot all the liberals?" from years and years ago?

 

The thing is, the right has created a climate of hate in america, but the DC baseball practice shooting shows that while you can create a climate you can't always control which way the wind blows.

[DShomshak]

Thing is, the studies I've seen of Trump active supporters (not merely the "Any Republican" or "Anyone Who's Not Hillary" voters) is that they aren't really hurting. Not lost-the-house, how-will-we-eat hurting. Sure, many of the working-class supporters aren't as sure of their economic security as they once were. But many of them are quite well off.

 

Economically and culturally, the chief grievances seem to be what Arlene Hochschild (in her Strangers In Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right) called "line-cutting." Other people seem to be getting ahead, getting the rewards of wealth and social approval that these people -- virtually all older and white -- think are their due. You're white, and every authority figure you've ever seen before is white (and oh, but authority and the social order matter the world to you!) -- and suddenly there's a black president. Your Christian faith and traditional marriages matter the world to you too, and suddenly there are Mooslims in the country and Gay Pride parades on the news.

 

A less charitable person than Hochschild would say it's their white Christian caste privilege they see in danger. And that danger's been building long before the Great Recession happened. White Nationalist rage has been building for decades. Some politicians have stoked it and exploited it. And now it's given them Trump.

 

Plus there's just a lot of people who still think in terms of a tribal village surrounded by other hostile villages, not a humungous country in a very large and very complicated world.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hermit]

Folks tend to lash out against injustice, whether it is true injustice or just perceived as such. 

[Lord Liaden]

But the lashing out is stronger when the injustice is perceived as being against them or those they recognize as like them.

[megaplayboy]

Well, the demographics of the country are shifting pretty dramatically, and there are people with whom that fact does not sit well.  

[Sociotard]

Reading about the way "deaths of despair" seem to target Trump's base, I can only conclude that they really are hurting. Not just wounded pride or quiet racism.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://aese.psu.edu/directory/smm67/Election16.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiP6bGV-fjWAhVC32MKHVEfCmAQFggmMAA&usg=AOvVaw1LDMeHAGCEg6u4_cHdHrBh

[Hermit]

I think the lashing out in this case is even stronger because there is a perceived lack of voice.  It's not just a matter of others cutting in line, it's a matter of being sidelined entirely, or, again, the perception of it.

 

Examples I have heard and to some degree agree with but I think are oversimplified: 

 

Illegal Immigrants are breaking the law. Point this out, or even use the term "illegal" and you may be listed a racist and any further argument on your part dismissed. Me? I'm more angry with corporations on this subject than I am the individuals but that won't save me if someone decides ANY Problem with illegal immigration means bigotry.

 

Some are angry about the PC movement for the same reason. It seems to many that terms White Privilege is used less and less for "Many minorities suffer historical disadvantages that have affected the current day and more" for "If you are a straight white male-shut up". The term comes across as being used to shut down discourse instead of actually getting one going; however noble the original intent behind it.

 

Oh, and racist doesn't mean racist anymore. it means YOU a white guy can be racist. Because someone has decided to redefine it so that only you can really be a racist since only YOU have the power. (Stated as fact, and you can't even debate the nature of power without a label on your forehead). It does smack suspiciously of rigging the discourse. 

 

Oh, stagnant wages in the city are a problem...

but you know those rural and suburban folks are just hilarious when they gripe about it and should shut up.

 

And if your job is obsolete, why don't you just take go get a college degree in something useful? As if it were that easy, or even always possible (Again, PERCEPTION)

 

 

 

The general feeling I get from many  is if you shut folks out of a conversation and turn that conversation into a 24/7 Lecture, one utterly lacking good faith, don't be surprised if they get up and walk away. 

 

And don't be surprised if some scam artist like trump curries their favor by pretending HE hears them and won't scoff.

 

Again, I'm talking PERCEPTION as much as facts (Which are often multilayered and complicated).. I think the curse of America 2017  is we have most of the population wearing tunnel vision goggles. Honest to god, if the middle class and down minorities and the middle class whites could lift those and look around, they might eat the rich or at least the bankers and CEOs of fortune 500 companies

 

But that's another gripe.

 

And I don't want to go 100 Marx

 

Barring Groucho, NEVER go 100 Marx

 

 

EDIT: And excuse the many typos and worse. I used to know English. I really did.