Half DCV

[Ninja-Bear]

What Hero gamers disagree? I don't believe it!

[Hugh Neilson]

Bet you ten Scottish pounds that Steve's answer does not prevent disagreement among us old timers :- )

That should depend on whether Steve gets it right, or disagrees with my interpretation.

[Surrealone]

Bet you ten Scottish pounds that Steve's answer does not prevent disagreement among us old timers :- )

Now that's a sucker's bet!

 

 

 

 

That should depend on whether Steve gets it right, or disagrees with my interpretation.

Thankfully, it won't have such a dependency.

[bigdamnhero]

Bet you ten Scottish pounds that Steve's answer does not prevent disagreement among us old timers :- )

Yeah, not taking that bet. Just looking to frame the discussion, not end it.

[LouisGoncey]

In 4e, in the round off section, it says to round of in favor of the character. I have always interpreted this as "in favor of the character in question, whether PC or NPC."

 

If you use a computer to figure out your character, it does not matter if your character is PC or NPC -- it is always in favor of the character...

[dsatow]

Personally, I've found it is always played round in the favor of the defender.  I run it as .5 always round up.  Its the programmer in me.

[Netzilla]

That's it. I say we go to statistical rounding. It's the only way to be sure.

[Tasha]

So if an opponent with a DCV of 7 gets stunned, their DCV is 3?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Inquiring palindromedaries want to know

Yep.

[Tasha]

In this case, no matter what Steve says I'll continue doing it the way that I have always done it. Though I will probably add on Netzilla way when it's mind-controlled PC vs regular PC. Though I may just stay consistent and rule that the Mind Controlled PC is a foe and is rounded down.

[Ninja-Bear]

And we wonder why 6th became two books long? (Rolls eyes).

[Zephrosyne]

I always rounded in favor of whomever the number/stat/trait/whatever being rounded belongs to.

[Lucius]

 

So what about half-moves? If a player character is 6 meters from an opponent who has a move of 11 meters, are they safe from a half-move and attack? But if the player character has a move of 11, that opponent is in range of a half-move and attack?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

the palindromedary tries to round sideways

[Doc Democracy]

Lucius, what dont you get about rounding in favour of the PCs??  Of course it is not fair - they are the heroes after all!!  :-)

 

Doc

[Lucius]

Lucius, what dont you get about rounding in favour of the PCs??  Of course it is not fair - they are the heroes after all!!  :-)

 

Doc

Please understand that I have been playing Hero for 30 years and this is the FIRST I'VE HEARD of anyone rounding DOWN for adversary characters.

 

I'm not saying it breaks the game, I'm just saying that I have never seen or heard of it done that way and am startled to learn that people I have known (online) for years are using an interpretation I have never even thought of. And surprised to not find an explicit rule one way or the other. And trying to understand exactly how it works, which is why I asked about half moves.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary found that rounding sideways got an imaginary number

[Surrealone]

So what about half-moves? If a player character is 6 meters from an opponent who has a move of 11 meters, are they safe from a half-move and attack? But if the player character has a move of 11, that opponent is in range of a half-move and attack?

 

Neither the player character nor the opponent is safe from a half-move and attack in this case -- specifically because each only needs to move 5 meters to attack with HTH abilities. (Per 6e2 p54, "A character’s Reach is 1 meter around himself.)

[Hugh Neilson]

So what about half-moves? If a player character is 6 meters from an opponent who has a move of 11 meters, are they safe from a half-move and attack? But if the player character has a move of 11, that opponent is in range of a half-move and attack?

 

Lucius, what dont you get about rounding in favour of the PCs??  Of course it is not fair - they are the heroes after all!!  :-)

Well, in my experience, Heroes play fair and by the rules, while villains cheat - taking such an unfair advantage seems decidedly Unheroic. Of course, we NEVER buy odd numbers knowing they will round in our favour, right?

 

 

Neither the player character nor the opponent is safe from a half-move and attack in this case -- specifically because each only needs to move 5 meters to attack with HTH abilities. (Per 6e2 p54, "A character’s Reach is 1 meter around himself.)

If they were in HTH combat before, one character moves 6 meters and the other closes 5 meters, I do not think they are in HTH range again. If they were, then Fred (2 SPD) can walk 6 meters per phase (3.6 kilometers per hour), Mary (also 2 SPD) can walk 5 meters per phase (3.0 km/hr) and after a 1 hour walk, they will be side by side despite being 600 meters apart.

[bigdamnhero]

In this case, no matter what Steve says I'll continue doing it the way that I have always done it.

I suspect many of us will. But it's nice to have an "official" RAW ruling to point to in discussion, even if immediately followed by "...but that's not the way I do it."

 

And we wonder why 6th became two books long? (Rolls eyes).

Given that the rule we're debating has been around since at least 2nd edition, and has apparently been interpreted differently by different people all that time, and that the verbiage in 5ed & 6ed apparently haven't clarified the issue...I think this is one problem we can't blame on Steve or rules bloat in general.

 

So what about half-moves? If a player character is 6 meters from an opponent who has a move of 11 meters, are they safe from a half-move and attack? But if the player character has a move of 11, that opponent is in range of a half-move and attack?

A character with 11m of movement has a half-move of 5 1/2m; there's no need to round it at all. If they want to move 6m, that's a Full Move.

[dmjalund]

you realize that if I build a villain and I know things are going to be rounded against them, I would be less likely to buy odd values, and end up spending the point elsewhere

[Greywind]

you realize that if I build a villain and I know things are going to be rounded against them, I would be less likely to buy odd values, and end up spending the point elsewhere

 

You do realize that some people give their villains the stats/powers/skills they want and don't really bother with points, don't you?

[bigdamnhero]

Steve's reply:

 

You’re right, that is a pretty basic question, and I apologize if my wording led to any confusion.

 

To clarify:

 

1. Unless the rules note otherwise, the standard HERO System rounding rules apply to all calculations that take place in the game, including the halving of DCV in some circumstances. I'm happy to answer questions about other specific instances if necessary.

 

2. When rounding, you round in favor of the character for whom the rounding is being conducted, not in favor of the character who caused the halving (if it were caused by another character). For example, if a PC is calculating the cost of a power and it comes to 44.5 points, you round in his favor to 44. If that same PC attacks an enemy in such a way that the enemy’s DCV of 7 is halved, you round in favor of the enemy, to 4.

 

Hope that helps!

We now return to your regularly scheduled program of doing it however you think is best...

[Christopher R Taylor]

When rounding, you round in favor of the character for whom the rounding is being conducted

 

 

That is the rule, although I've always done it in the player's favor because: they're the heroes of the story.

[Lucius]

Neither the player character nor the opponent is safe from a half-move and attack in this case -- specifically because each only needs to move 5 meters to attack with HTH abilities. (Per 6e2 p54, "A character’s Reach is 1 meter around himself.)

Then allow me to restate the question such that they are seven meters apart.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thought it could round sideways but was just imagining it.

[Surrealone]

If they were in HTH combat before, one character moves 6 meters and the other closes 5 meters, I do not think they are in HTH range again. If they were, then Fred (2 SPD) can walk 6 meters per phase (3.6 kilometers per hour), Mary (also 2 SPD) can walk 5 meters per phase (3.0 km/hr) and after a 1 hour walk, they will be side by side despite being 600 meters apart.

 

Neither of Lucius' original inquiries dealt with a scenario in which both the player character and opponent moved.  Each question he posed ... inquired about only one of them moving.  Thus, I'm not sure what you're getting at, here...

 

 

Then allow me to restate the question such that they are seven meters apart.

I presume that you intend to cover both questions?  In case so, I'm going to respond to both.  Per Steve's response to BDH, neither the player character nor the opponent is safe from a half-move and attack in this case -- specifically because in your newly-restated inquiry, each only needs to move 6m to attack with HTH abilities (leveraging the same 1m reach ... for a total of 7m) ... and each's movement of 11m will round to a 6m half-move ... unless you are using a House Rule that differs from Steve's take (as per Tasha's stated intent).

[Tasha]

I round Villain Character sheets like they were PCs. So half move rounds up. Mostly because it's habit.

[bigdamnhero]

I also asked Steve about rounding half-moves:

Yes, it rounds in the character's favor. Back in the days of hexes, I used to see a lot of characters plunk down a couple points to get 7" Running so they'd get that extra 1" when making Half Moves, for example.

I like this answer less than his other one (ie - the last one agreed with what I've always done...), but there you are.