Power Build: Defense Against AoE's

[ScottishFox]

Branching off from a previous thread I saw.

 

Would this work as a power?

 

AID 10d6 (taking the average 30pts / +3 DCV <halved due to defensive ability>)

Area of Effect 8m radius (+1/2)

Limited Use:  Only to Increase the DCV of targeted hexes  (defaults to DCV 3 at range, 0 when adjacent).

 

I'm looking for a non-Barrier solution to dealing with AoE attacks.

[Christopher R Taylor]

You'd really have to work with the GM to make it possible to increase the DCV of an abstraction like that.  Plus, all it would do is make the attack be more likely miss the targeted hex but the AE would still go off somewhere, probably within range of the hex anyway (see page 40 HSR2 or 145 Champions Complete).

 

Another option is to build a triggered dispel (negates the AE power), a teleport to move everyone out of the area, a desolid as an attack, a flash to blind the guy trying to do the AE attack (triggered), a stun change environment triggered to stop AE attacks, an aid to a defense based on the AE (it hits, but doesn't do anything), and an aid to Dex rolls to dive for cover.

[ScottishFox]

I was thinking a vortex of wind or something that would make it harder to consistently land an AoE attack where it was intended.

 

Attacks going off where they were not intended may make enemies reluctant to use them when the risk of annihilating their front line minions becomes apparent.

 

I suppose I could more cost effectively build it with something like a fully transparent barrier that only stops AoE attacks which would cause the explode-on-impact types to go off on the edge.  Great for grenades & fireballs.  Less useful for cones and lines.

 

Hmm...

[steriaca]

Desolfication, only vs AoE attacks, requires a dex roll.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Deflection would work vs any physical projectile that explodes like a grenade.

[ghost-angel]

Change Environment; There's a 3 point "-1 Range Modifier, or some other Combat Penalty"; So if the GM agrees a "-1 OCV" or "+1 DCV Of Hex" is an appropriate use of this CE Adder, I recommend that. It's clean and does what you want it to.

[eepjr24]

9 minutes ago, ghost-angel said:

Change Environment; There's a 3 point "-1 Range Modifier, or some other Combat Penalty"; So if the GM agrees a "-1 OCV" or "+1 DCV Of Hex" is an appropriate use of this CE Adder, I recommend that. It's clean and does what you want it to.

Actually I think this one is pretty well supported by the rules. It says "Additional -1 to the Range Modifier (or, in the GM’s judgment, some other negative Combat Modifier)". The combat modifiers on 6e2 40 include both "Target an Area" and "Area of Effect Attack". I would certainly allow you to buy -N to hit a hex as a "illusory area displacement field" which randomly swaps around images of one area to another via an image projector. Remember, just because it says it uses images does not mean it needs to use the power. Probably best to buy it in a field around you with an AOE of 8 hexes or so.

 

I think this does stray from the original point here though, that if the GM is wanting to work around your defenses and target your character specifically, it is trivial for them to do so since they have unlimited points and unlimited number of platforms to do so. AoE's are just one easy way, AVAD, NND, double (or more) increased KB, movement powers UAA, VPP's to customize attacks against a particular situation, massive flash attacks versus targeting senses also work and I could go on.

 

- E

[ghost-angel]

I wouldn't worry about what the GM can do; a good and fair GM won't just fiat their way around interesting things.

 

Creating a localized wind field to deflect incoming missile attacks is a really cool idea and effect.

[Christopher R Taylor]

The drawback to the change environment approach is that its kind of the opposite of what he envisions, it has to be on the character that is launching the area effect attack rather than the area targeted.

[tombrown803]

While it's not pacifically listed in 6th edition (unlike 5th edition), I believe Steve said sometime in the Rules forums that it costs 5 points per OCV/DCV modifiers with change environment. If you went that way, you might want to verify that.

[ghost-angel]

31 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

The drawback to the change environment approach is that its kind of the opposite of what he envisions, it has to be on the character that is launching the area effect attack rather than the area targeted.

 

Change Environment affects an area, not a Target; but technically yes, the Attacking Character would have to be In The CE Area to be affected; As a GM I would easily be inclined to say this affects things coming into the Area Affected (like missile attacks) as it does characters acting in the area itself.

[ScottishFox]

I like CE a lot for this as I've been thinking it over.

 

One alternative idea that came to mind was a one-way mobile Barrier with the limitations that it only stops AoE attacks and if the attacker makes an attack roll at -X then the barrier fails to stop the attack.  Possibly more mechanically correct, but I think a CE with some GM generosity does the trick.

 

And in this case - I'm the GM. 

[phydaux]

Back in the day I had a half-hour long argument with a player who wouldn't stop insisting that AOE was a version of NND, and the NPC's AOE EBs shouldn't effect his character because his character's mask completely covered his ears.

 

The REALLY crazy thing was that there were six players at the table, and initially two other players agreed with him.

[IndianaJoe3]

On 7/4/2019 at 10:12 AM, ghost-angel said:

 

Change Environment affects an area, not a Target; but technically yes, the Attacking Character would have to be In The CE Area to be affected; As a GM I would easily be inclined to say this affects things coming into the Area Affected (like missile attacks) as it does characters acting in the area itself.

 

In 6e, Change Environment is now a single-target by default.

[JCR]

I guess there may be a multitude of ways to accomplish this depending on character concept/powers. For example thinking on my current character I guess I could always add +10 PD/ED to Resistance to force field, linked to force field, trigger against AoE attacks, Limited only works against AoE attacks, etc. Just wanted to throw out there another way to do it. I know its not to avoid the attack, but works well to simulate how AoE attacks are less effective against the character.

[steriaca]

This is the Hero System. If someone tells you there is only one way to do something, they are lying.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

In 6e, Change Environment is now a single-target by default.

 

Yeah part of the (in my opinion) degradation of the concept from "creates an environmental effect" to "short term weird transform with a saving throw"

[tombrown803]

9 hours ago, steriaca said:

This is the Hero System. If someone tells you there is only one way to do something, they are lying.

Wrong. There is only one way to do something, you do it with character points

 

 

 

[dsatow]

Just a suggestion, but you could also use missile deflection.

[steriaca]

1 hour ago, dsatow said:

Just a suggestion, but you could also use missile deflection.

You could. How much is "Only VS Area Of Effect Attacks"?

[Ninja-Bear]

On 7/15/2019 at 8:10 AM, steriaca said:

This is the Hero System. If someone tells you there is only one way to do something, they are lying.

Unless it’s on how to build light. 😂

[Ninja-Bear]

9 hours ago, dsatow said:

Just a suggestion, but you could also use missile deflection.

Not really unless the AoE takes the limitation can be missile deflected or GM rules that it can be.

[dsatow]

Most GMs I know will allow it if the special effect is something that shoots to a hex and blossoms into an area of effect (like a grenade, a missile, a classic fireball effect) even if the power did not take the limitation of can be missile deflected. It wouldn't work on say a spell which causes a fog to roll in.

 

Limiting the missile deflection to only Area of Effects would be something your GM decides, but I would say -1.

[segerge]

On 7/3/2019 at 1:20 PM, steriaca said:

Desolfication, only vs AoE attacks, requires a dex roll.

 

A standard feature of Ladyhawk's character sheet in the TASK FORCE universe, except I have it requiring an Acrobatics roll and call it "Artful Dodging"

 

"Evasive" in Fantasy Hero basically does the same thing.

[Ninja-Bear]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:46 AM, dsatow said:

Most GMs I know will allow it if the special effect is something that shoots to a hex and blossoms into an area of effect (like a grenade, a missile, a classic fireball effect) even if the power did not take the limitation of can be missile deflected. It wouldn't work on say a spell which causes a fog to roll in.

 

Limiting the missile deflection to only Area of Effects would be something your GM decides, but I would say -1.

Oh I’m sure. And I hate to be nit picky but by RAW you can’t unless there is a limitation or GM approval. Just want to point it out .