Christopher

A friend of mine used to say: "Experiences are wonderfull. To bad you only ever make them after you would have needed them." Yes, missing that one part is not that exceptional. Of course you can still beat yourself up over forgetting to just ask on the Forum all that time

Resurrection Regeneration and Healing on the Duplicate explicitly work as well. If it was truly a copy, why can he not just create another one in it's place? By rules definition Duplication has a finite pool of alternates to draw from. There is nothing disposeable, neither for the player nor Character. You are implying special effect from Power build. Triplicate Girl would be build with Duplication, most likely. Yet she still was hurt (emotionally) by loosing one of them. Even if you asume a very callous user that regards all his duplicates as "expendable" (and they somehow go along with that), he would still run out of them eventually. Asuming a duplicate, not a summon build of course. Some would fear it. Some would jsut own it: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html Really depends how common reviving is in that universe.

@TheDarkness: I asume you are in the group saying "not a bad movie" either. I belong there too, firmly. Should have not cut that much on either of the two, but otherwise they were a solid start for the DC Live Action Universe. Superman not killing was always a "stated character trait". He just always had a CvK. It somehow even applied when he was brainwashed or controlled. But they never delved into why. Men of Steel exactly goes into that area. Actually I recently stumbeled over thise video, that deals with a lot of the criticisms:

That is actualy one of the few consistent and regulated parts about him. He is always stronger then the late arrivers. Even in the old 2, he was able to beat the combined power of 3 Kryptonians (Zod, Ursa, Nurn). I think it has been established he get's his powers largely "from the yellow sun". Well, Superman has been on the planet since he was a baby. While all others are all Newcommers (even his cousin reached the planet when already a teen; Powergirl just came there from anotehr reality, and at least Kryptonite is often Universe bound - why not solar radiation?). He always seemed to be "more powerfull" then even fellow Kryptonians that just arrived. Also, the world of Cardboard Speech: Did he seriously just wipe out the entire plot? I mean saving even the astronauts and those people in the city (he was not aware had died), okay. But that is like undoing his whole story. His whole struggle with giving up his powrs for Lois, then struggling agaisnt impossible odds to get them back. The one redeeming factor this film actually had for me. That is exactly why they needed to get rid of that power and never re-introduce it again. It is like the difference between the Avengers and X-Men Quicksilver in speed. HISHE shows well why that is such a bad, plotbreaking idea to have such powers. FYI, it is not "reversing the rotation of the earth". It is making a Star Trek IV style Timejump, just over shorter distance and using the lower mass earth rather then the sun. Both are just applications of the basic concept behind a tipler cylinder, using more speed (FTL and way, way past) to compensate for lower (not infinite) mass.

That it cost 5 points with a Mandatory Limitation makes sense. It maintains the AP/DC side of the balance. Increasing the Limitation value to -1/2? Perhaps. As others have pointed out, the use is different depeding on Genre: - In Heroics the main use is getting to damage Levels you could not push your STR to effectively. NCM kind of locks your STR out at 20-25. You need weapons (or Weapon Master) to get a competitive amount of damage in the first place. For heroics it is a nessesity to have HKA or HTH-Attack. - For superheroics them main use is getting a "DC Calculation affecting Advantage" onto your STR, without a expensive power or Naked Advantage covering all 60 AP. Indeed that is propably a big reason the DC doubling rule was removed from the Basic Rules (into Genre/Optional Rule territory). "Another way to think of it is to think of it as Blast (5 per 1d6) with No Range, which is normally -1/2. Of course HA adds your STR damage, whereas Blast typically doesn’t, so that might balance out. But in a heroic game where most Blasts are weapons that people don’t pay points for, that feels less relevant than how well it balances with the cost of STR." On this part I noticed something: Killing Attack exist in Ranged and Melee Variants. As I see it exists implicitly as Ranged+Adds STR, but you have to either take a "No Range" or "Does not Add STR to damage" sort-off-limitation on your KA's (it does "drop" the AP cost down to 5 AP/DC). If you want both, that needs a +1/2 Advantage. Yet Normal Damage (Range/Melee) is two seperate powers. That looked like a leftover to me. Maybe we should fold them into one power like both cases of Killing Damage? The only real reasons to have them as sepearate powers seems to be how Adjustment Powers interact with them (Resistant Defenses and Defenses, Resistant(+1/2) are drained seperately; so is Blast and HTH-Attack, but not both Killing Attack variants).

That is one problem. Every doubling doubles the fraction of Playtime that player get's player a greater share of the actions. The other is weakness of each Character sheets. Duplicates do not get to spend the points used by Duplication (at least usually in 6E, check that for 4E). So as natural Result they have weaker defenses, Skills and the like then the original. Among the "5 point per 1 CP powers", duplication has these properties: Full Control over the Duplicates. Non-Disposeable Duplicates. Duplicates are identical to main Character (inlcuding points on Duplication not be reuseable) each sheet for itself is weaker In the end it is better to simulate game effects revolving with Duplication Special, then actuall duplication with tons of Sheets to control. A classical is using Teamwork with 1-3 Duplicates. The "multiple Attacker" bonus can add up quickly, and then there is the Bonus for Stunning the target. But past 2-4 total Characters, it becomes plain unfeasible. If you want to use up a lot of points, consider Altered Duplicate. At least that way the Duplicates can have unique abilities. Naruto is quite ingenious when it comes to using his Shadowclones in unique ways, and most of them could not be modelled at all using Duplicate (the Power) at all: He made a rope ladder of clones (Stretching). He once used the clones to prevent being pushed back against incredible (adding STR to simulate "having Clones add thier STR to resist being moved").* Another time he let the Clones throw him (Leaping) to get into melee range fast enough* Ninja's often use Triggered powers to blindside thier enemies or force them into one defense action (i.e. block vs melee) that they can then abuse (ranged or AoE attack). Or set them up to trigger when the enemy attacks, to blinside them when they can not dodge. Like having transformed a lot of Clones into Debris, then springing that on his enemies.* Howerver this might be hard to pull off in hero, due to the Action Economy. It is part of his "Special Effect" for using his signature attack (the Rasengan) most of the Series. He simply lacks the speed to do it without those extra Hands. It is even part of his special effect for training (clones transmit Experience to the original, allowing him to speed up his training). The original use was "for scouting in dangerous territory", so a form of very Clairsentience with Material Manifestation/inobvious power effects. Unable to Enter Sagemode without standing still/unable to have a helper merged to your Body? Shadowclones that gather the power, then Despawn to hand it over!** There is also the "Mirror Image" trick, where the enemy is not sure wich target to attack (clones just dissipate after "one solid hit", most of the time). *these were even in the same battle sequence, the end of his fight against Pain. **Oddly that always worked. He kind of just change the Limitation to a "Extra Time, can act while doing it" variant down from Concentration. Naruto Combats and Fillers are a Treasure Trove of "Duplication special effect abilities" that can not be modelled with Duplication at all.

We already establish 5 times over that this is in GM allowance territory. Indeed, you just did 1 post ago. Wich is why everyone talking about using Invisibilty (Touch) to simulate Trackless step/avoiding landmines was pretty clear it does not work in the extreme case (touching the target) you had an issue with: That application of the Remo Williams trick does not work but it does bring us back to the "Invisibility (Touch Group)" example: "He leaves tracks, if the surface is sof and durable enough to take them." - Only in contact with Surface limitation. However: "If a character has Flight Only In Contact With A Surface (see below), Invisible Power Effects can be bought at the +¼ level so that he doesn’t leave tracks, set off seismic alarms, or the like" - IPE limition on Flight. IPE has this to say: "Most powers can be perceived by two Sense Groups when they’re in use (see Sensing Powers And Special Effects, 6E1 124). Characters can buy the Invisible Power Effects Advantage (“IPE”) to conceal some or all aspects of the perceivability of a power. You should use common sense and dramatic sense when deciding whether Invisible Power Effects is applicable to a Power, and if so how it functions. For example, a character shouldn’t try to make a Movement Power Invisible to the Sight Group, since it’s always going to be obvious to onlookers that he’s moved from Point A to Point B. But he could make it Invisible to Hearing Group so that he moves silently" "If a Power is Inobvious, it can typically be perceived by two Sense Groups (Sight and one other) when in use, and sometimes the GM may require a character to succeed with a PER Roll to perceive it. To make the Power “invisible” (imperceivable) to one of those Sense Group is a +¼ Advantage; to make it Fully Invisible (“invisible” to both) is a +½ Advantage." So I took it as a given that the "IPE for not triggering Seismic Sensor or Leaving Tracks while using Only in Contact with Surface Flight(+1/4)" is defined as "IPE (Touch Sense Group, Inobvious to fully invisibile). How would you define Seismic Alarms if not as Touch Group Sense? I think I must also clarify I that am not a friend of using Triggered Images for this power build. If it was some random Image that plays (like a D&D magic mouth)? Sure, not an issue. But a hearing image specifically designed to get around Invisibilty (Hearing Group) on the person triggering it? Nope. A generalised alarm spell that triggers for anything in the area is not the same as a triggered Images that tracks the person triggering it. And produces sounds he is explicitly immune agaisnt making.

Once again I can not tell what you are trying to say, because you wrote too much on your "sentence by sentence disection quest". And then you have a ton of "maybe" and "perhaps" in your post too. Maybe my green is actualyl blue for you? I can not say, because you did not gave any concrete examples. Here is what I said and you disagred with: "Weaponmaster exists solely for Heroic campaigns. Where NCM Caps and "Does not add damage from STR" drastically reduce how much you can get from STR. Where equipment (and thus attacks) are bought using money, not points. Where a CSL or OSL might not be takeable, because it would allow you to exceed campaign limits on CV's or skills (taht you can add it to so many things can actually be kind of a downside)." 1. Do you have common examples for Weaponmaster outside of one of the Heroic Settings? If so, please provide them. If not, your disagreement is moot. 2. 15 STR past NCM, 0 END (+1/2) costs 45 AP, not 30 by the way. And as we already establish in heroic games Endurance Costs do mater quite a bit too. To the point where most weapons exceed any AP cap just to include 0 END (+1/2). 3. That equipment is bought using money also means they can have very different DC values from the campaign limits. Just look at all the example weapons in 6E2 or Fantasy hero and show me 5 that can not be maxed out using 25-30 STR (anything more is plain unfeasibly expensive in a Heroic Game, wich is the game using NCM's). Or show me 5 whose DC is beyond the official campaign limit. You got your pick of those weapons. If you want to say NCM are used outside of heroic games, please show examples.

You are not trying to be stealthy on sound because you already have the ulimtiatve Sound Stealth working (Inivisbility [Hearing Group]). You are trying to be stealthy on the sight area wich is inherently different from audible stealth. Stuff like environment actually blocking you. What you describe is a cirtical failure while trying to be Stealthy vs Visibile senses. Why would a critical failure there cause a hearing impression? Why not simply the other person turning around to light a cigarette just that moment, putting you plain in his sight*? You are trying to cause an issue, where the should be no issue. *Having some decent ability to predict the targets movement behavior is integral part of Sight Group Stealth.

Except everyone agrees that Invisibiltiy Touch would NOT work that way. It get's you around Triggers and Tracking (the broken twigs and leaves kind) tops. You are trying to find a flaw, that was never in the idea.

You should be carefull with time travelers. He might be related to just about anyone. But to some only in the future (subjective for both parties). Or in his past, wich is the subjective future of the other person. Or in his future, wich is the subjective past for the other person. Or in alternate timelines that no longer exist because he was connected to them when they helped fix that. Timetravel in superheroics tends to be wierder the how it would propably be in real life (if possible).

Games in wich you can buy a VPP with Effortless Change are not games you need Weaponmaster in. You jsut buy the power with however many dice (and however much 0 END) you actually wanted in the first place. Done. Weaponmaster exists solely for Heroic campaigns. Where NCM Caps and "Does not add damage from STR" drastically reduce how much you can get from STR. Where equipment (and thus attacks) are bought using money, not points. Where a CSL or OSL might not be takeable, because it would allow you to exceed campaign limits on CV's or skills (taht you can add it to so many things can actually be kind of a downside).

The basic Idea is I think from a D&D spell. Faerie Fire: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Faerie_Fire I also think that translating it to hero simply does not work. Senses (and Sesne Affecting Powers/Spells) operate way to differently to translate it. I am not a fan of "SFX interaction". For learning a language I realised: "It is never the rules that cause issues, it is always the exceptions." This applies to a RPG ruleset too, I think. The simplest way around invisibility/darkness is simply another (not covered) sense group. With independant senses as the ultimative, nearly impossibly to affect fallback "group". How about: "Ranged for Normal Touch, 5 Base Cost; Usable by Nearby(+1), 10 AP; Only stuff touching the surface (-?), also affected as Hearing (-0), Side Effect(Sense benefits enimies too)". What the Power will detect is the enemy stepping onto the surface. It will transmit that information to everyone nearby, via hearing. However invisibility(Hearing Group) would not counter it (hence a -0). However the power also works against the users (group) - invisibile allies walking on it trigger it just as well, so the enemies benefit from it. Not to mention they at least know they have been detected. Idealy we would want the "enemy can use it too when in range" to be rolled into UBN. A UBN variant with "beneficial power affects enemies within range too". but I do not know how to do that. Maybe AoE would be a better match then UBN in this case, as it naturally works against allies in the area. More then once i said that I think Invisibility (Touch Group) could be a valid build for a "Trackless Step" build. Wich should also protect you from making noise from taht Crystall, allow you to not trigger vibration sensors and mines, etc. It of course does not protect you from being "felt" by the Chraracter themself. Just from remote sensing. So Triggers and maybe range on Sense/Clairsentience only. In the film "Remo Willians: The Adventure Begins" the character does learn how to learn without leaving tracks. Inlcuding not leaving tracks while walkin on wet beachsand, one of the most easily indented surfaces.

Between the 3 big Accounted Characteristics, ENDurance is the only one the enemy can not attack. They can cause BODY and STUN damage with a lot of different attack powers. But damaging any other atribute (inlcuding END) requires Drain. LTE is even wierder. First of all, it is a optional rule and apparently a rather new one (someone said it comes from Fantasy hero, but I might mix it up with some other rule). Secondly it is not even a Characteristic. You only track LTE loss. And the rules regarding affecting LTE are not clearly defined. Thirdly the sources of "damage" are more limited and in no way under attackers direct control. Normal END use over long time can cause the damage. It an also be used to simulate environmental effects (like heat, thirst, sleep deprivation per APG II). Those factors may be under indirect control of Adversaries. Fourthly (and that makes it hard to Drain LTE) is that LTE-Loss acts like a Drain itself. It might be closer to a supress (it is pretty much persistent, except for some very specific recovery rules). Every point of LTE loss drains your END at a 1 too 1 rate. In a way LTE loss is a Drain imposed by the Gamerules onto your Character. So you are basically trying to Aid someone elses Drain after it was applied onto the target already Not sure the rules are designed for that, but of course you could add your Drain to the target. I can not remember if drains usualyl stacked (I thinkthey did, but with seperate fade rates), but in this case I would say they Drain END and LTE loss should stack. I had to read up on the Healing and Adjustment Powers rules: Healing can repair the "damage" done by a Drain. Since LTE loss operates like a Drain, Healing it makes some sense. However if combined with Aid, it can not heal the damage incurred in the "Aided" part of the Characteristics. +10 STR Aid, -5 STR Drain could not be healed. +10 STR Aid, -20 STR Drain would allow Healing to heal the lower 10 points only, not all 20. I can not remember any rule that says Healing can not restore Endurance. There is one that says it can not restore Endurance off a Endurance Reserve. And most GM's would naturally be carefull about a Character healing his own Endurance. But I think by RAW Healing (Endurance) is allowed. Healing LTE loss seems to be the only reason it even has a "Cost for Adjustment Powers". Aiding and Drainig LTE, that makes a whole lot less sense. Draining/Aiding the Endurance itself still makes sense with or without LTE in the campaign. You could of course house rule it so that a Drain/Aid targetting LTE automatically has a very low fade rate (like per day or 6 hours). Since LTE costs 15 times as much effect as normal Endurance (3 per 1 instead of 1 per 5), that should be somewhat hard to abuse.

Trigger can use every sense the Charcter has, even by default. Most Characters have the "Touch Sense Group". Trigger reacting to a Touch impression (stepping on the crystall) would thus be feasible. Indeed a touch-sensed time for explosion is exactly how I would define Landmines

Weapon Master is based on the Pricing for 3, 5 and 8 point CSL. Wich in turn are based on the pricing for 10 point CSL. And the 10-points-CSL are actually kind of wierd things. Usually you can disect constructs down to a less specialised constructs. Growth, Shrinking and Density Increase are properly derived from basic characteristics and other powers. This does not work completely with 10 Point CSL. Weapon Reach is a highly limited form of Stretching. The closest I could ever figure out was that 2 10-point-CSL equate about this Multipower: 10 point Reserve Multipower 2v +2 OCV 2v +2 DCV 1f +1 generic DC, 0 END; 10 AP, 10 Real Cost Total Cost: 15 (I think I am missing something. Might just be AP issue, where the MP is closer to 11-12 points due to the slots being bigger; accounting for the missing 5 points should be easy) The "generic DC" is the tricky part. Basically CSL can do what no power can do - add damage to any arbitrary attack power. Only Maneuvers can do that normally. I doubt there will be a proper "mathematical proof" for how that cost is valid. We just kind of have to asume it is valid for 10-point-CSL. Wich in turn makes 3, 5 and 8 point CSL fairly pirced. Wich in turn makes Weaponmaster fairly priced. It is a chain of asumptions. Furthermore the Talent explicitly mentions it is designed primarily for Heroic Campaigns. In those games, not spending those points on STR (and Endurance) might be a worthwhile trade. Moreover it might be impossible to spend enough points on STR to use certain weapons fully. NCM is around 20 STR, wich is +4 DC from STR. If you got a 8 DC weapon, that is barely half the way to the doubling Cap* And it is explicitly mentioned that Weapon Master does work on Ranged Weapons, wich are usually build with the "Extra STR does not add damage" variant of STR minimum. So Weaponmaster is the only way you can add damage to those weapons at all (aside from Maneuvers or plain CSL; the later might have issues with CV caps). *While the doubling cap was generally removed in 6E, it is part of the "Real Weapon" and "Minimum STR" limitations that are usually applied to Heroic Weapons. And it is a GM option too.

A piece of the Chineses Space Station Tiangong ("Heavily Palace") 2 was launched on 15th of September sucessfully. However, it looks like the Heaven will fall on our heads in the near future. China apparently lost control over Tiangong 1: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-space-station-tiangong-1-crash-tiangong-1-out-of-control-a7319916.html

But Foci are also covered by Invisibility. Foci like Power Armor. Or if the user was just mascerading as a Ghost for Halloween and wearing a sheet with holes anyway. So at wich point does this sheet thrown over him change from a Foreign Object to a focus/equipped item? And I mean without infering certain Limitations. Welcome to the quagmire that is adjudicating Sense Affecting Powers. Re eepjr24: "So you think that 25 points should prevent any ranged attack against someone who is invisible?" I have literally no idea how you got to that missinterpretation. Fringe range is 2m by default. Range attacks usually have ranges way beyond 2m. So even with a normal Fringe you can range attack without warning the enemy ahead of time. Indeed this whole power is about preventing being attacked from Stealth Surprise. Attacking the Invisible Character needs a targetting Sense lock. Wich you can not have using Sight, if he has Invisibility (Sight). Unless rules specifically written into Visibility override that. "Darkness can be penetrated with Fully Penetrative. Flash can be defended against with a very low power defense or by simply looking away if you know it is coming. Images takes a roll and will not defeat highly perceptive individuals except at VERY high AP levels." Darkness: Page reference and claficiarion for Darkness needed: Do you mean conventional Darkness (as in lack of light, 6E2), or "Darkness, The Sense Affecting Power?" I spoke of the later. And it does not mater if you got Penetrating on Sight, because Darkness (Sight Group) blocks all Sight Group Powers. Inlcuding and especially that Sight Group Power with Penetrating on it. Darkness (Sight Group) is the game effect. If you as GM want to rule specific Special Effects of Darkness (the Power) does not block specific Special Effects of Penetrating on that Sense Group, that is you mistake to make. The reason Spartial Awarness will get around Darkness, Flash, Invisibility, Images and hte like is that it is by default bought as Independant Sense. Wich is why it costs beyond 30 Points. If you want to save points by moving it to the hearing or sight group, it is of course fully affected by anything Affecting that group. Flash: Flash is resisted by it's designated defenses, wich is Flash Defense (Specific Sensor Group). Of wich there is one per Sense Group. Power Defense does not even operate remotely similar. Regarding "turning away": "Te GM may wish to allow characters who are prepared for or expecting a Flash to take defensive actions (covering their eyes with their hands, or something similar) to reduce or eliminate the effects of the Flash. (Characters generally can’t Abort to do this, since by defnition that means they’re not “prepared.”) Obviously, whether such actions succeed depends on the special effect of the Flash — a character who covers his ears won’t be protected from a Sight Group Flash!" Notes: Explicitly GM option and only if aware. Note that you can of course still Dodge/Ranged Block/whatever defensive Maneuver against the attack itself. Wich could also be interpreted as "trying to turn your eyes away before they get fully flashed". Also, you somehow missed the most important line of that Paragraph: "All exceptions are written into the power itself and explicitly." That goes into the area of Tracking and walking Trackless. Not direct perception.

Short answer: Both and Neither. Likely at the same time. Longer answer: Depends on how you use them. For many player Characters it could be both a Power and a Complication. It could also be the lack/lessening of a complication (if nobody remembers you, then nobody can pierce your secret ID). What ifi a person sees you only indirectly? Like on a Camera or in a TV recording from the other end of the planet? The build part: Using Psychic Surgery type of Transform might be unessesary and will run into range issues. How about: "Invisibility (Sight, Hearing, Touch, Smell, Taste), Only prevents being remembered, not being detected (-1)" or even: "Invisibility (Memory)" Being invisible means you can not be percieved at all. Lessening it to "only memory" is possible. And "Simulate Death" is defined as "Invisibility To Detect Life Signs/Paramedics (10 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes; -2), Requires An EGO Roll (-½) (total: 3 points) plus +1 with EGO Roll (2 Active Points); Only To Enter Trance (-1) (total cost: 1 point)." Overall it does remind me of this Star Trek Episode: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Unforgettable_(episode)

"Duplicates do not have the Power Duplication themselves, nor any ability to create other Duplicates, unless they pay for it separately. However, unless the GM permits otherwise, for ease of use all Duplicates must “pay for” the cost of the base character’s Duplication ability. Otherwise, the Duplicates would end up with more points to spend on other abilities than the base character himself has." - 6E1 198 So the duplicates do not get to spend the points you already tied up in Duplication.

Either of those reasons can be behind that: - bot/spam Protection - low data relevancy for the likes, at least compared to primary data (like the posts themself). That might mean keeping the bandwith need down with caching them, lower priority during backups, longer time until they are comiited and the like - it was part of the Original Forum code that was merely adapted

What about Psionic? I mean you do not need to limit it to require a attack roll or have a "Mental Surface Lock-on". You can still do so afterwards.

Invisibility (Sight, Hearing, No Fringe) cloks in at: 20 (Targetting Sense Group; Sight) 5 (extra non-Targetting Sense Group; Hearing) 10 (no Fringe) 35 Points And for 25 Points it has a 2m Fringe. Way beyond any ranged attacks. Of course if you want it combat useable, you can not put it into most Frameworks (with your attacks). And the attacks themself need to be IPE, or they will expose you. One interesting thing about those "Indirect" detection options: The GM is free to say they are not avalible right now. It is not a reliable way to get around it. This power would be a reliable way to get around it. That is a problem. That they affect 'thier' Sense/Sense Group absolutely is true for all Sense Affecting Powers: Darkness (Sight Group) can not be pierced with any Sight Group Perception. Flash (Sight Group) Disabels all your sight Group Perception ability. Images (Sight Group) will fool your Sight Group sense perfectly. All exceptions are written into the power itself and explicitly. So whatever sense you use to Detect a invisible Character, it can not be in the Sense Group that the character is invisible against.

You are right, indirect detection using normal means works. But we are talking about a power being designed to counter that Inivisibility. A power working (possibly) on a Sense the Invisibiltiy is designed against. Invisibility is for me an absolute. The only way to break it is to use another Sense group altogether. On wich sense would that trigger react? Touch? With Skill vs Skill contests, a penalty to his roll is a bonus to yours. One of the examples for CE even is a stealth suit that gives enemies penalties to Perception rolls. Wich is a buff to your stealth roll. That is a good idea too. Just a quick reminder how it is written up: "Base ability is Detect Danger Detectable By Normal Human Senses In Combat, Including Range To Danger, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees) (total cost: 10 points), plus Targeting (10 Active Points); Only If Character Makes Half Roll (-1) (total cost: 5 points). Total cost: 15 points" - 6E1 447 And it is build as a Independant Sense, that means no Invisibility not directly targetting it (at Targetting Sense Group costs) would work. Not when senses are concerend. Then stuff just becomes wierd quickly. Better to keep it to a few basic rules (Invisibility trumps all Sense in that Sense Group) and not get bogged down here too much.

This does go into Sense Territory. The only way around Invisibility, is a different sense (group) altogether. Having a Change Environment with penalty to move Stealthily would work. But only if the skill is on a normal level and the person does not also has invisibility (hearing). If an attacker has Invisibility (Sight and Hearing group), then you will neither be able to see nor hear him with this power. Sight group covers indirect detection too (so you can not see the Crystalls break until way after it happened). While Hearing covers produced sounds too (the crystalls breaking, inlcuding indirectly). At the same time it does not block the users sight or hearing in any way. Having Inivisible Power Effects(Hearing) on the ground movement would also help, as it would at least reduced the penaly for "using movement Stealthily". Overall the power is extremely situational, requiring invisibility/Being Blinded to Sight, while not also covering Hearing. If you want something more reliable, consider buying "Range for Touch, Only through ground(-?)" or even a Independant Sense. The Touch group is the one normally impossible to make yourself Invisible against - that requires Desolidification.