Selective Invis...

[unclevlad]

Not sure there are any clear, strong use cases for this, but...

 

What would people think about Selective Invis.  Like Selective Desolid, Selective Invis allows the character to leave certain parts visible, at discretion.  Now, unlike Selective Desolid, there isn't a compelling reason to do so, but it feels like it may have some useful deception aspects.  

 

I don't think it should be a *big* advantage, but it does feel like maybe a smaller one.  +1/4?  +1/2?  Can't see it any larger than +1/2.

[LoneWolf]

Selective deslidificaiton has some benefits that justify an advantage.  I don’t see any benefit to selective invisibility that would justify an advantage. If the character cannot make certain body parts invisible that would actually be a limitation.   If everything but my head is invisible people can still tell I am there and to hide I have hid my head somehow.  Hiding my head is going to make it harder for me to see what is going on.   

[Tom Cowan]

maybe a 5 point adder at best

[unclevlad]

A 5 point adder can actually end up more expensive than a +1/4 advantage...but *probably* not here.  Invis tends to be adder-heavy (multiple senses, no fringe).  It's when a power tends to be advantage-heavy that adders get particularly expensive.  (Mass multipliers on megascale teleports...owwwwwww.)

 

LoneWolf:  yeah, if certain parts can never be made invis, then that's clearly a limitation.  The edge gained with selective invis is most likely its distraction/shock aspect.  Suddenly pop a floating head in front of someone, scream "BOO!!!"   Or something like that.  How many additional dice on the PRE attack???   Or your buddy is hacking a system.  You want to divert the attention of the sysop from the console.  Distract guards watching security monitors.  It's nothing like selective desolid, to be sure, but it feels like it would come in handy when we really think about it.  

[LoneWolf]

Buy the shock value as extra PRE or Striking Appearance not as an advantage to invisibility.  Even that is not really necessary.  That would be considered displaying a power.  If the player set it up right it could also be considered an appropriate setting. 

[unclevlad]

Huh, just crossed my mind.  Another way to do this would be using a Power skill.  

[Tech]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:40 PM, unclevlad said:

Not sure there are any clear, strong use cases for this, but...

 

What would people think about Selective Invis.  Like Selective Desolid, Selective Invis allows the character to leave certain parts visible, at discretion.  Now, unlike Selective Desolid, there isn't a compelling reason to do so, but it feels like it may have some useful deception aspects.  

 

I don't think it should be a *big* advantage, but it does feel like maybe a smaller one.  +1/4?  +1/2?  Can't see it any larger than +1/2.

 For a player character who wants to use their Invisibility selectively, I wouldn't charge anything: it's a roleplay of the power. IF that power use starts becoming really useful, then I might charge for it

 

On the other hand, a home-made villain was made that selectively does that to himself, and to heroes. Here's how it was made:

Multipower

u. Invisibility (he makes himself invisible)

u. Drain vs Dex, AP - make parts of hero disappear, leaving them disoriented, not vs heroes with special sight

u. Flash attk - Makes the environment temporarily invisible, affecting the eyes

 

[Steve]

To be honest, this sounds like +0 modifier territory to me. Neither an Advantage nor a Limitation.

[Duke Bushido]

I am lined up with Steve and Tech:  there is nothing in the description of invisibility (at least up to 5e) that forbids this in the first place, so if you want to suddenly "decapitate yourself" or cosplay as Thing from the Adams Family, go for it.

 

 

[steriaca]

The Hero System is all about special effects. So, what exactly does selective Invisability do for the character? Shock value? Sounds like +PRE, Presence Attack Only.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, steriaca said:

The Hero System is all about special effects. So, what exactly does selective Invisability do for the character? Shock value? Sounds like +PRE, Presence Attack Only.

 

I hate trying to buy characteristics like this.  LoneWolf's bonus to PRE attacks for displaying a power?  Yeah, that makes sense;  it still leaves open the question of whether the power includes this option implicitly, or what the cost to enable it should be.

 

At this point, I'm going with the Power skill.    That is one of its secondary uses.  As noted:  if it really comes into play a lot?  Then maybe you shift things around a bit, and construct a cost, like an adder.

[Christopher R Taylor]

whether its an advantage or limitation is going to depend on how its defined, I think.  Invisibility for all but my face: probably a limitation, that's not only going to make you easier to spot and target but its creepy.  Invisibility for all but my fingers: probably not worth anything.

 

You can expand this concept too.  Invisibility to all but those who make an Ego roll is worth a limitation, but not a very big one; Ego rolls are typically tough to do in a normal campaign.  Invisibility to all but my friends is probably worth an advantage, its beneficial to you.

[unclevlad]

Nope.  The concept is full invisibility with the ability to selectively make part(s) visible at will.  Nothing like an EGO or even Skill roll.  The power is VERY basic...except potentially for selectively making a part or parts visible.  

 

Invis, but not to allies?  That would be a significant advantage.

[SCUBA Hero]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Nope.  The concept is full invisibility with the ability to selectively make part(s) visible at will.  Nothing like an EGO or even Skill roll.  The power is VERY basic...except potentially for selectively making a part or parts visible.  

 

 

+5 Adder (IMHO)

[Duke Bushido]

You people are going to make me open that accursed 6e book again, aren't you?

 

 

 

[unclevlad]

would we do that to you???????????

 

 

 

bwwwwaaaahahahahahaaa

[LoneWolf]

If all you are looking to get out of this is a dice or two extra on your PRE attack it should not cost anything.  If you want to add a lot of dice to your PRE attack, then you should pay for it.  Displaying a power is a standard adjustment for PRE attacks. 

[unclevlad]

13 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

If all you are looking to get out of this is a dice or two extra on your PRE attack it should not cost anything.  If you want to add a lot of dice to your PRE attack, then you should pay for it.  Displaying a power is a standard adjustment for PRE attacks. 

 

That skips step 1:  can the power be used like this at all?  IF (the power can be displayed in this manner), THEN (there are bonus dice to a PRE attack).  Given.  But you can't assume the IF clause.

[mallet]

There could be uses for this in some campaigns, settings, characters.

 

Imagine a character with 4 arms, and the ability to make 2 of them invisible. They could be picking pockets/stealing things with those 2 invisible arms, while their 2 normal arms are fully visible so no one expects the theft to even possibly be happening. Or for magic tricks and the like. 2 extra, invisible arms/hands could make for some interesting/impossible seeming illusions and slight of hand magic. 

 

Character could be picking a lock with their two invisible hands while the other two are out in the open carrying stuff (and blocking the view of the lock).

 

Same could be said with some uses of Stretching, the characters full body is visible, but one of his arms that he seems to be leaning against the wall on is actually invisible and stretch out going around behind the guard to attack him from behind or hit an alarm or whatever. 

[Tech]

5 minutes ago, mallet said:

There could be uses for this in some campaigns, settings, characters.

 

Imagine a character with 4 arms, and the ability to make 2 of them invisible. They could be picking pockets/stealing things with those 2 invisible arms, while their 2 normal arms are fully visible so no one expects the theft to even possibly be happening. Or for magic tricks and the like. 2 extra, invisible arms/hands could make for some interesting/impossible seeming illusions and slight of hand magic. 

 

Character could be picking a lock with their two invisible hands while the other two are out in the open carrying stuff (and blocking the view of the lock).

 

Same could be said with some uses of Stretching, the characters full body is visible, but one of his arms that he seems to be leaning against the wall on is actually invisible and stretch out going around behind the guard to attack him from behind or hit an alarm or whatever. 

 

And I still wouldn't charge anything more for this. That is just roleplaying and using the power with good thought and tactics. The invisibility power (and Stretching in this case) has already been paid for - don't penalize the player for using the power well.

[Duke Bushido]

Yep.

 

That's it.

 

When I get home tomorrow night, I am going to open the 6e book, and I bet there is nothing there that forbids doing this with Invisibility as-is.  I know there isnt anything prior, and I expect the onky difference I will find in 6e ia another thousand words or so.

 

 

[tombrown803]

Duke's opening his 6e books, our work is done.

 

[steriaca]

Opening up my Champions Complete.  The modifiers are on page 17. Nothing directly about "display of power". There is a modifier for Violent Actions (ranging from +1d6 to +4d6, depending on how violent the action is). Turning partly visable is not technically a violent action (especially if the villains know you do that offen). It could fall under Appropriate Interaction Skill (+1d6), Target Is Surprised (+1d6), Exhibition Of A Power (THERE IT IS. +1d6), and maybe Appropriate Setting (+1d6). That adds up to as little as +3d6, or as much as +8d6. But it would probably be on average +4d6, and that is the GM being generous. 

 

If you really want the character to pull this off regularly and be more powerful at it, buy a limited form of +PRE. And the bonuses stack onto +PRE.

 

My character Lady Heart has a limited increase in PRE for attacking, but only to make others to stop fighting/surrender to the power of love. Because of this, s/he doesn't get much bonuses to the Presence attack because most of the bonuses don't apply. Fluttering your eyelashes and asking the villain to surrender because love is stronger than evil doesn't exactly work so well.

[Duke Bushido]

Not till romorrow, I am afraid.  Late night at work; sont expect to be home,before ten or so.

 

Plus side?  Company Road Trip!

 

 

[LoneWolf]

4 hours ago, steriaca said:

Opening up my Champions Complete.  The modifiers are on page 17. Nothing directly about "display of power". There is a modifier for Violent Actions (ranging from +1d6 to +4d6, depending on how violent the action is). Turning partly visable is not technically a violent action (especially if the villains know you do that offen). It could fall under Appropriate Interaction Skill (+1d6), Target Is Surprised (+1d6), Exhibition Of A Power (THERE IT IS. +1d6), and maybe Appropriate Setting (+1d6). That adds up to as little as +3d6, or as much as +8d6. But it would probably be on average +4d6, and that is the GM being generous. 

 

I use the full rule book and on page 138 of the second book it lists "+1d6 Exhibiting a Power or superior technology" on PRE Attack modifier table.