Midevil Governments

[Asperion]

In most fantasy stories and games,  people use either a monarchy or theocracy.  This night be because either is easier to use and operate within the system. However,  people have always refused to be easily shoehorned into simple systems.  Even when those systems were everywhere,  other systems could be found.  The first recorded democratic government was pre-Christian, others existed during the middle ages,  and other forms were found at the same time. Not considering those ever present religion-centered or monarchy ones,  what other systems have people created during the middle ages and how were they maintained? 

[GDShore]

Venice is nominally a republic, like ancient Greek republics only a portion of the public acts as the electors. The "Doge" once elected functions as a dictator. The oldest functioning democracy is Switzerland, which in the Medieval period was a loose federation of democratically controlled cantons, the electors were male property owners.  

     Iceland was a stateless society and outside of the law courts (and there it was based on personal prestige) there was no established central power. Finally there is the possibility of "Amazons", a matriarchy. 

[death tribble]

You could easily mimic Republican Rome or Greece at the time of the city states for a fantasy world

[Christopher R Taylor]

Because of slow travel, questionable mail services, and difficulty overseeing things, older civilizations tended to be more local in government.  That is, the smaller the area governed over, the more power and impact they had over someone's life.  Yes, the king was technically in charge and everyone served him, but he was way off in [capitol city] in his palace and most people lived in small rural communities.  The king's men would collect taxes once a year or raise armies from the people every so often, maybe do a census, but otherwise had little impact.  The local squire or lord or what have you was much more significant in terms of immediate government impact.

[Lord Liaden]

Venice called itself a Republic, but in practice it was more of an oligarchy, a body of twenty to thirty prominent families who elected the Doge, the official leader of the state. Oligarchies of different sorts are certainly a feature of societies around the world throughout history, often with the trappings of other systems, as with Venice.

 

Another element of medieval government was plutocracy, rule by the wealthy, such as the merchant class and/or trade guilds. Venice had elements of plutocracy, since the major noble families also dominated the state's economic activity. Another outstanding example was the Hanseatic League, an association of wealthy merchants based in multiple cities, who formed common economic alliance to facilitate trade and dominate mercantile activity in their regions. The League even founded towns along important trade routes or to control key resources. Their cities often also formed mutual defense alliances for protection from robbers and pirates.

 

Sometimes associations of states have one member exerting hegemony over the others, even though that authority wasn't formally recognized. That was the case for the Delian League, a large alliance of Greek city-states formed after the second Persian invasion, with a common treasury on the island of Delos. Athens was the most powerful member of the League, and essentially bullied the others into acting in Athens' interests.

 

In a fantasy world where magic and spell casting is real, you can have a mageocracy, rule by those who are skilled in spellcraft. Social status and influence are based on magical ability. There are numerous examples in fantasy novels and RPGs, from the witches of Estcarp in Andre Norton's "Witch World" novels, to the Empire of Alphatia from D&D's Mystara campaign setting.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Greece was the same way; yes they had an election to choose who ruled but they were the elites of the society, not the general public.

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Greece was the same way; yes they had an election to choose who ruled but they were the elites of the society, not the general public.

 

I guess it depends on how you define, "elites." In Athens the Assembly, the legislative body, was open to all adult male citizens who were not slaves, about 30% of the adult population. Certainly not representative by modern standards, but the patricians who held political power under the Roman Republic comprised only 10% of Roman citizens at most.

[assault]

Republic and Oligarchy were nearly synonymous. Plutocracy is mostly a redundant category. Oligarchs could be land owners, merchants or both.

 

Venice was notionally a republic, but closer to an elective monarchy in some ways as GDShore pointed out. And that's a reminder that non-hereditary monarchies existed.

Oligarchies were often city-states, but could extend beyond that. The Roman Republic is the most obvious example.

More democratic forms existed. In ancient Greece, cities that depended on the oarsmen of their fleets would often have to enfranchise them. Athens is the classic example. Such democracies were unstable, and usually short-lived, interspersed with periods of oligarchy and so on.

A better medieval example were the various peasant communes/cantons/republics that mainly existed in marginal lands - swamps, mountains etc.

If you are bothered by how such setups (any of these) could exist in a world with wizards and monsters, just add in a couple of high powered characters that don't exercise ruling power. Paladin types, hermit wizards, monastic clerics...

 

---

Off topic now, but even monarchies can be weird. Apart from the elective monarchies (like, for example, the Holy Roman Empire!), there were weird ones like the ones on Sardinia, where the kings were originally know as Judges. That's where you would find the Judicates of Cagliari and Arborea.

Then there are states that are self-governing but without the status of kingdoms. There were plenty of fancy titles to go around there. (Wildgraves, Raugraves...).

There were places ruled by appointed governors too. If you want a term other than governor, you could use Captain or Admiral (typical of an overseas colony, naturally). Or a notionally Church-ruled state might be ruled in practice by a secular Advocate (or similar title).

Regencies can be individual or collective. In the latter case, it's rule by committee, although power is rarely equally shared. It doesn't always end in violence.

Areas where the official government has little power can fall into a kind of fractal state, where power is exercised by local leaders (often warlords), who wield monarchical style power on a local basis. Or if they can't, power falls into the hands of even more localised leaders... These situations can often happen in border areas, with raiding happening both across the notional borders and between groups on the same side. (The Anglo-Scottish Borders were an example at various times.)

Speaking of which, if an area has poor farmland, and is economically reliant on grazing, raiding is likely. Livestock is easy to steal. If it happens enough, you have an equivalent of the Wild West.
 

The opposite case, where the government is actually able to govern, can see power being exercised by royal appointees (Sheriffs, etc), at the expense of local lords. Of course the Sherrifs are usually local lords too, complete with rivals and feuds. The Sheriff of Snottingham and the Earl of Snottingham may not be on friendly terms, even if they are cousins. This is natural, since the Sheriff wields powers that "should" belong to the Earl. (The upstart!).

... and so on...

 

If you have access to them, L Sprague de Camp's Novarian series is relevant.

Edited May 31, 2023 by assault

[LoneWolf]

Most games do not really worry too much about forms of government.  When they do they tend just use monarchies because that is what everyone is familiar with.   This is kind of a shame because in a world where magic is real it could have a real impact on how society is organized.  Even the forms of government we are familiar with would be changed.

 

In the real world a theocracy is government by the church.   In a world where deities are able to be contacted and contact their worshipers that would not be the case.  In a world where the deity can be contacted a theocracy would be much different.   In such a world divine right could actually be real.  When the deity the country worships says that this is who they choose to rule the land people are not going to argue.

 

Another thing that could happen is the some people may be able to draw power from the land itself.   The idea of the rightful king being chosen by the land instead of the people could actually work.  The land may even grant the king and to a lesser extent the nobility powers that commoners do not have.  That would fit with the Celtic myths of the king being linked to the land.

 

There could be a lot of other forms of government in a fantasy world that do not exist in our world.   

[DShomshak]

A couple years ago I posted a thread about creating governments beyond the generic Fantasy monarchy. It may be useful here, too. Here's the link:

 

Worldbuilding: Social Design and Social Forces - Fantasy Hero - HERO Games

 

Dean Shomshak

[Christopher R Taylor]

Religion is very, very important to consider.  If you decide to have a wholly atheist system, you're missing out on a lot of depth but its possible.  But if you have any religious system at all, its going to be a very important part of regular life. Particularly if there really ARE monsters out there, demons and undead and worse.  Medieval Europe divided the entire culture and civilization, down to food and law, between the king and the pope.  Religion was shot through everything, it was completely part of all day life, every day.  Government has to take that into account as well.

[GDShore]

In fact, religion was so powerful a social force during the medieval period the pope could excommunicate a king, which had dire consequences for the country he ruled. Likewise a powerful mullah could do the same in the Islamic world. I do not know enough about the orient to say but suspect the same. In a world where "evil" is physically manifested (demons, undead, monsters of every stripe) religion would hold an extreme amount of power. With divine interventions possible, to be agnostic let alone atheist. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

The Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV of France groveled before the Pope for a week before getting forgiveness for his misdeeds.

[Lord Liaden]

Quite so. Although the Popes from that era granting forgiveness for "misdeeds" is pretty ironic.

[tkdguy]

3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

The Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV of France groveled before the Pope for a week before getting forgiveness for his misdeeds.

 

The Holy Roman Emperor and the King of France were two different men. The former was the one who had to plead for forgiveness. Note that he got his revenge years later.

 

Henry IV

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

The Holy Roman Emperor and the King of France were two different men

 

Correct, but he was French-ish (the borders weren't as clear back then), and Holy Roman Emperor.  I did not mean to imply he was King of France.

[archer]

On 6/2/2023 at 1:16 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Quite so. Although the Popes from that era granting forgiveness for "misdeeds" is pretty ironic.

 

Remember: it's only midevil.

[tkdguy]

On 6/2/2023 at 2:37 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Correct, but he was French-ish (the borders weren't as clear back then), and Holy Roman Emperor.  I did not mean to imply he was King of France.

 

My mistake. There is also a Henry IV of France, who lived centuries after the Holy Roman Emperor with the same name.  I thought you were saying they were the same person, hence my confusion.

[GDShore]

Actually Henry iv Holy Roman Emperor, was not even "Frenchish" he was a German, being in fact King of Germany. His father, Henry iii had ended the period of the three popes, forced a synod and elected a German bishop pope, Clement ii. Calling him French is insulting, and although borders have shifted somewhat since then calling one the other (French<>German) will get you into a world of trouble. 

[Lord Liaden]

Hero's Turakian Age setting (I know I keep referring to it, but it has lots of cool concepts IMHO) has an interesting semi-democracy governing the Free City of Tavrosel. The heads of government are a Triumvirate, each Triumvir elected by members of one of the major social classes in the city. The landed nobility vote for the Lords' Man (although women can also serve); merchants and guild members choose the Guilds' Man; while everyone else picks the Town's Man.

 

The three Triumvirs divide the duties of government between them, but they often don't like each other or cooperate well. In practice most of the governing is done by the Heralds, the heads of the city's large bureaucracy.

 

For my own use of Tavrosel I further defined the Heralds as being like cabinet ministers. Each Triumvir chooses a Herald to administer one of the areas of governance they're responsible for. I established that the Triumvirs can choose whomever they wish to be a Herald, but by tradition they're drawn from the ranks of the bureaucrats, a meritocratic service by which even a commoner can rise to a position of authority.

[Cancer]

It's worth adding here that medieval governments outside of Europe generally looked very, very different from standard-issue Euro-based societies.  In assembling a campaign that can most compactly be described as circa 800 AD maritime adventuring in the Indian Ocean, South China Sea, and the Indonesian archipelago, there's a range of religious and history contexts that contrast sharply with those of post-Roman collapse Europe.

[GDShore]

That is absolutely correct, the Iroquoin confederacy was a loose alignment of matriarchal  democracies which elected a male leader, whose son's could not inherit his position. If the leader had a sister her sons would be eligible or an aunts or female cousin's. Or they could elect from a totally different line. Each of the different members of the confederacy were slightly different but the general mold was the same. Similar for the Cherokee confederacy and I think the Seminole similar. 

     In the Orient Imperial monarchies run by bureaucracies that were tightly knit, well educated and in communication with a central power. Quite often the named "emperor" wasn't the one in control. 

[Cancer]

It took centuries, but the Chinese gradually replaced the hereditary aristocracy with scholar-bureaucrats (who had to pass the imperial civil service exam to join that civil service).  This was complicated by the ebb and flow of different religions' influence in the empire: Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, and whatever the northern horse barbarians were for the current incursion....

[GDShore]

That is very much the way it went Cancer, then as the Chinese Empire slipped into senility the empire was carved into blocks or fiefs run by warlords, by the time the Europeans began mucking about in Chinese affairs, things had really collapsed. The Imperial sway did not extend beyond a fast horse from Peiping thus you get the "Boxer" rebellion.

Just thought that could be a great campaign, a kingdom slipping into senility, and it's people hoping a hero will arise to fix things.