paigeoliver Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 This evening I got into a discussion with someone else about how almost all female characters in RPGs have either insanely high COM scores or high CHA scores (for games that use Charisma). He said "no way", and then checked the closest book he had at hand (Wheel of Time RPG), and the AVERAGE female character in that book had a 16 (in a system that only goes to 18), with a range of 14-19. So we checked Classic Enemies. I didn't run the numbers but most of the female characters were near 20, none were under 10, not even the ones who had being unnattractive as sort of part of their background. So, we thought "Maybe it is just superheroes". So I decided to run the numbers for all the characters in Normals Unbound. Female characters. Average COM 16.3 23 total characters with a com range of 10-24 (including 2 low point total characters with scores over normal characteristic maxima) Male characters Average COM 12.8 33 total characters with a com range of 8-18. One character had a dual com score (two different forms), his 2 scores were averaged for the purposes of these calculations. So, I guess in the Champions Universe ALL the women are hot. Even the "normal" ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magmarock Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Good observation. Check the comic books... you'll be hard pressed to find ugly, or even below average, women. There's a reason for this, I think. Look at the target audience... how many young men will look at comics if the women are less-than-staller in appearance? The game is emulating the comics (at least in the super-genre). Mags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Girls are pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Well, I don't think they all HAVE to be hot, but as the guy who designed Lara Croft for Tomb Raider said, it doesn't hurt. I think that COM is one of those things that you can throw a couple points in to get a big difference(after all a 16 COM is only 3 points). We don't think about it as much with male characters because: 1. Guys are designing these things, by and large, and we don't really think of other guys as being attractive so unless the character's concept specifically calls for him to be particularly handsome, we don't think to throw any points into COM. But most guys would like a "hot" girlfriend, so when designing the women, we remember to throw a couple points into COM, even if the character doesn't really need it. 2. Guys, even when we try to consider whether another man is attractive tend to overrate ourselves a bit - so guys don't get as many extra points because, after all, "he isn't really any better looking than I am". That, and we generally are pretty bad at figuring out how attractive another man is so it's easier for us to just skip it than guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive One of my friends has observed that many artists simply never learn to draw unattractive people. Lots of people are glad to just be able to draw athletic people and never expand their range into fat and skinny. I mean come on, How does Professor X maintain that 6-pack? Seriously. It takes alot of work to learn to draw people, and when you read all the books that talk about proportions, ratios, and such they rarely mention what 50 extra pounds do to your lines, or how a face changes when someone has a weak jaw or hair lip. Most people get proportions right and move on to perspective (or color, or whatever) and never get back to variations on those proportions. When most artists are done, you are then left with is a hero/heroine with perfect abs, mighty muscles, excellent teeth, and the proportions of a god. Those people tend to be considered "attractive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThealaSildorian Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Well, I don't think they all HAVE to be hot, but as the guy who designed Lara Croft for Tomb Raider said, it doesn't hurt. . Well, as a female gamer I have to say, I like my characters to have a high COM (at least 14). I'm no Hollywood star, but it sure is a nice fantasy to play one in a game. So it doesn't bother me in the least Theala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paigeoliver Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Well, as a female gamer I have to say, I like my characters to have a high COM (at least 14). I'm no Hollywood star, but it sure is a nice fantasy to play one in a game. So it doesn't bother me in the least Theala We actually discussed that too, how female gamers ALWAYS select attractive female characters, but not TOO attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive See, when I clicked on this thread, I thought you were going to be talking about Karachel or something. I was like, "Uhh... doesn't he know???" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Speaking strictly for myself, unless their backgrounds dictate otherwise I like to throw away a few points in Com for male or female Heroes along with some points into Pre. Heros should be attractive and impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive We actually discussed that too' date=' how female gamers ALWAYS select attractive female characters, but not TOO attractive.[/quote']You should meet my female co-gamers. On the three, i regularly play with : - one is addicted to half-orc barbarians (D20 => CHA 6) - one ALWAYS play metahumans in SR, and always the troll/orc metatype. - one tried once a female elf ranger and then switch without any warning to "funnier stuff" i.e. chaotic evil fighters ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive You should meet my female co-gamers. On the three, i regularly play with : - one is addicted to half-orc barbarians (D20 => CHA 6) - one ALWAYS play metahumans in SR, and always the troll/orc metatype. - one tried once a female elf ranger and then switch without any warning to "funnier stuff" i.e. chaotic evil fighters ... The ONLY Vampire player I've personally met that played a Nosferatu (without some kind of homebrew "Fair Features" Merit) was a woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Yes, it does seem odd but does emulate the genre perfectly- even female characters that started out with the intention of them being unattractive as a character 'hook', such as Callisto, Marrow, or BoomBoom, eventually where 'prettified' so that they wouldn't be chased off the X-Books(ok, maybe not Callisto as much, but she was much prettier in latter days then when first introduced). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Probably a (self)perception phenomenon: majority of players and writers are male, and they don't want anyone thinking that they find men as attractive as women. Of course we should probably be buying extra COM focussed in the costumes, as normal ID and Hero ID characters are often perceived differently in terms of attractiveness for all kindsa reasons. Women in comics are often portrayed as wearing far less utilitarian comstumes than men...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive I've never run a Champions character who didn't have at least a few points of extra COM. My first, Ranger, had a 14 COM. He was male. My second PC, Spirit Ninja, who was a supermodel in her Secret ID, had an 18. My current PC, Zl'f, has a 20 COM. Even my new Roman Catholic priest hero for the Dark Champions game I'm starting has a 12 COM. Why? I dunno. I guess I prefer to run attractive people. Of course, I consider COM to be as much a factor of personality as sheer physical attractiveness, which is which the pretty but very personable Zl'f gets a 20 while her bitchy but drop dead gorgeous predecessor Spirit Ninja only rates an 18. Frankly, I almost would have preferred HERO go with D&D's Charisma rather than a characteristic solely for physical attractiveness. But then, I consider Sandra Bullock to be a hell of a lot better looking than than Paris Hilton. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trencher Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive One of my friends has observed that many artists simply never learn to draw unattractive people. Lots of people are glad to just be able to draw athletic people and never expand their range into fat and skinny. I agree. And it is particularly evident in the more modern comics I think. Does anybody remember the old fusion champion’s book? All the women there looked alike in the face except for the hair. The only comic book artist that regularly draws women with varied faces are John Byrne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trencher Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Of the women I have roleplayed with two have enjoyed playing unattractive characters. Two mostly played good looking characters but had at least one character that was unattractive. And three roleplayed very attractive characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive But then' date=' I consider Sandra Bullock to be a hell of a lot better looking than than Paris Hilton. YMMV.[/quote'] Why does it taunts us my precious? Why does it makes us agree with it? Seriously though, you're right Treb- Paris Hilton is just one of many dirty skanks that are currently be exalted as 'Beautiful' who, to me, are nothing more than overly made up wastes of skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paigeoliver Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Why does it taunts us my precious? Why does it makes us agree with it? Seriously though, you're right Treb- Paris Hilton is just one of many dirty skanks that are currently be exalted as 'Beautiful' who, to me, are nothing more than overly made up wastes of skin. I actually think she is really pretty, totally not my type though. I don't REALLY like blonde (unless they are like 5'0") and I definitely don't go for skank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive My current character (male) is built with a high COM score on purpose. His wife is in a coma in the hospital and I figured making him noticably attractive would be great for the high angst I was going for with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Sanity is overrated anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive All the female characters I've played have been attractive, cute, or pretty. I've never played an ugly women. Probably because I picture my characters in my head, I like picturing attractive women. My men tend to be handsome, but I will play ugly characters if appropriate. I've played Thing-like characters who weren't very attractive, for instance, or sentient pools of goo. In vampire, I'll play nosferatu, if the mood strikes. Vampire is a darker game, and the people don't all have to be beautiful, though, vampires usually are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive How many of your male characters are fat guys in old t-shirts who need a bath, deoderant, a haircut and a shave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive You see this effect in anime/manga as well. Nar an ugly female lead character in sight. Many of them are utter knockouts, with a few certainly having 20+ COM scores (Urd from OH, MY GODDESS! comes to mind). Oh, and this being anime, gravity-defying bustlines are par for the course as well (thanks to Gainax). I think the reason is simple -- the artists don't want to draw "ugly" characters and, in Japan as well as here, sex sells. On the flip side, I've seen some very "normal" looking people in the more realistically-drawn manga -- AKIRA, BLADE OF THE IMMORTAL, DOMU, JIN-ROH and so on. There, you see the full gamut of young, old, fat, thin, less-than handsome, highly-attractive, and so on. As for the characters I create -- it depends on the concept. However, looking at NINJA HERO, I see the following: COM (sex, subgenre) NINJA 12 (m, realistic) 12 (f, cinematic) 10 (m, wuxia) 10 (robot, video game) 22 (f, anime) EVERYONE ELSE 14 (f, realistic) 16 (m, realistic) 10 (m, cinematic) 10 (m, cinematic) 18 (m, wuxia) 16 (m, wuxia) 10 (m, wuxia) 14 (m, video game) 18 (f, video game) 10 (m, anime) 14 (f, anime) Okay, so video game and anime martial artists = hot babe. Sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive How many of your male characters are fat guys in old t-shirts who need a bath, deoderant, a haircut and a shave? Why would I make a character like that when I'm trying to avoid PLAYERS like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Hero System women are all insanely attractive Why would I make a character like that when I'm trying to avoid PLAYERS like that? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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