STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

[Balabanto]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Keep it hex-shaped.

[Enforcer84]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Radar and Sonar

[gojira]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

5) A "Turnabout" Adventure where the PC's have been captured by a villain / organization and placed in a very similar facility.

 

Good ideas!

 

"Wrongly Accused" A good hero is sent to Stronghold.

 

"Deep Cover" One or more PCs must pretend to be inmates to uncover some needed information or important clue.

[Steve Long]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I was thinking last night when is HERO going to get its Ape Villian?

 

We already have Ape-Plus (though he's not of "master villain" mold), and I don't see the need for any more.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I'll echo what's been said regarding "Life After Stronghold."

 

And definitely one of the non-prisoner NPCs should be a defense attorney.

 

Two other ideas also occurred to me. First, what about those convicts who are not serious escape risks, or whose crimes aren't particularly violent, but the nature of whose powers makes Stronghold the only practical option for incarceration? Are they treated just like everyone else, or do they get privileges such as outdoor exercise? A sample villain in this mold would be good too, but probably not necessary to make the point.

 

Second, I think it would be cool to see a vampire villain (maybe a revival of Stalker from the BBB) or someone else who can only be restrained by mystical means. It would illustrate the variety of things that the government has to do, and is willing to do, to keep these villains under control.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

To illustrate the techniques used by Stronghold, a wide array of villains are needed, but I agree with the limited use of new characters. Perhaps example cell structures might use examples from previously published characters (maybe stimulating some sales for their source books) and/or villains lacking full stats with only a small description of the relevant powers (notable ones could be written up in future products if demand warrants).

 

I think it would also be nice to see reference to minor "villains" - characters who have small powers, but not at a level to make them Super Threats. A guy with 8d6 Mind Control could accomplish a lot, and be difficult for conventional law enforcement to deal with, even if that were his only extraordinary ability. But toss him in a general population of Champions-level villains, and his odds of survival seem pretty poor if anyone takes a dislike to him.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I was thinking last night when is HERO going to get its Ape Villian? We need a Gorilla Grod and everyone knows Gorilla comics sell the best. Can you slip one into Crooks, Cabals or Stronghold Steve Hero needs an Ape Master Villian, can we see it anytime soon?

 

 

While he's not quite a master villain, there is a rather bright evil gorilla in VVV named Ape-Plus. It wouldn't be very hard to turn him into an evil Doctor Silverback.

[Bloodstone]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Ape-Plus is more Monsieur Mallah than he is Gorilla Grod or Ultra-Humanite... though if you transfered the Overbrain psyche, skills and powers into Ape-Plus' body... hmmmm...

[Hermit]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Digital Hero had one adventure where an Evil Professor Primate from Backworld is mentioned

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I'd like a discussion on "Just how Super do you have to be to get sent to Stronghold?" in Chapter One. If your powers are solely from removeable gadgets, probably don't get sent to SH. If have very minor superpowers ("Fear me, I can wilt any vegetables I touch!") probably won't get sent to SH (and probably won't get a job in the prison kitchen or gardens either ). But what about the supergeniuses? After the sixth time they escape regular prisons by rigging the prison's electrical system to teleport them out or build a raygun out of bedsprings and commissary forks, maybe they need a more secure holding facility.

[Steve]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

This is my list of things I'd like to see, some of them already mentioned, so this would be considered an additional vote for them.

 

1) Super Guards: Is the prison staff all normals? Are they PRIMUS agents? Maybe a brick or an energy projector able to do containment-style force walls could help keep control. Perhaps a retired Silver Age hero is the warden, or (feeding into my second request) a Silver Avenger. Do they use battlesuit technology?

 

2) Who's in charge here?: How does Stronghold fit in the scheme of the CU justice system? Is it under the federal prison system's control? Does PRIMUS control it?

 

3) Guantanamo Bay: How does the ACLU feel about a place like Stronghold? Are there protests against Stronghold by the public? Is the media biased against it? Do prisoners try and use the media to gain sympathy?

 

4) Solitary confinement: Is every prisoner kept locked in a cell all day? Are they allowed to mingle with each other for meals or exercise periods like non-powered inmates can? I assume there will be some inmates that are so powerful/dangerous/psychotic that they can't be allowed out of solitary.

 

5) Gender: Are prisoners sorted by gender into separate cell blocks/levels? Are they grouped by power-level, ignoring gender?

 

6) Levels: Are there varying security levels in Stronghold? The real hard-cases would be down in the lower levels, but less dangerous prisoners would be on a different level of the facility from them.

 

7) Cliques: Assuming prisoners are allowed to mingle, cliques would form. The VIPER types would likely hang together, and I could see DEMON inmates doing that too. Would the mutants find solidarity together? Would the genius types have their own 'nerd' clique? What about martial artists like Green Dragon? Would they group themselves together? Basically, what sort of social network exists in Stronghold?

 

8) New fish: What's it like for the first-time supercriminal inmate? Maybe an example supervillain of this sort.

 

I'm sure I'll have others, but those will do for now.

[Just Joe]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

1. Body & DEF of all walls, doors, machines, etc., as well as any special defenses or vulnerabilities.

 

2. Guidelines for determining the success, failure, or partial success of attempts to destroy or circumvent particular security features by brute force or by skill (e.g. security systems, mechanics, or computer programming).

 

3. Maps. I know it's been said, but I want to reinforce it and to emphasize tactical level maps with hexes (they can be small, as long as they represent 2m each).

 

4. Suggestions for using Stronghold in alternate ways, especially in other genres. I know something like this has already been said and I know this is a CU product, but a modest amount of work on this front (e.g., in an appendix) would substantially increase the likely of the book being bought by those of us who rarely play in traditional supers games.

[cyst13]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I'd like to see a section on the social life of the inmates. The U.S. Constitution's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment does not allow prisons to hold all prisoners in permanent isolation because social contact is a basic human need. Given that, if the prisoners are allowed some time during the day to mingle, what do they do? Do they form gangs or cliques? Do they make contacts and hatch plots for when they return to the outside? How do their superpowers affect their social interactions? If there is some sort of superpower suppressor device in operation, how does the loss of superpowers affect the psychology/morale of former demi-gods?

[Steve]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Shouldn't this thread be Stickied?

[Comic]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I know it sounds sad.. but some ideas of how to break out or break in?

 

You know, for GMs who aren't naturally inclined to crime.

 

There's got to be some, somewhere.

[Spence]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

After reading the thread I find most of my wants already listed so.... after a bit of snippage...

 

I am glad to see that this chapter will cover the prisoner transport problem. I want to see the equipment and vehicles that the super-powered Con-Air uses.

 

I assume we'll be seeing lots of nice maps included, but I just want to add specifically that I'd like to see general grounds outside as well as inside.

 

Medical Ward' date=' Iso-cubes (for villains who must be kept on ice), and Transport Vehicles.[/quote']

 

A nice, sprawling map of a complex that could be used as a dungeon in Fantasy HERO, as Stronghold in Dark/Champions/3000 or Star HERO or the ruins of a prison for Post-Apoc HERO would be great. I know there will be maps but prisons are HUGE! and a super SuperMAX prison would be especially so. They would probably have to have their own power plant. Something epic, please.

 

1. Body & DEF of all walls, doors, machines, etc., as well as any special defenses or vulnerabilities.

 

2. Guidelines for determining the success, failure, or partial success of attempts to destroy or circumvent particular security features by brute force or by skill (e.g. security systems, mechanics, or computer programming).

 

3. Maps. I know it's been said, but I want to reinforce it and to emphasize tactical level maps with hexes (they can be small, as long as they represent 2m each).

 

What they said.

 

 

Oh and did I mention I vote for maps and the centerfold

[Wanderer]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I second many of the suggestions given here, but my main one is to ensure that the book is written not just from the perspective of PC putting NPC villains into the super-prison and trying to keep them there, but also from the one of PCs getting themselves slammed into said super-prison, and trying to breakout and escape, for whatever reason: villain campaign, framed heroes, vigilante antiheroes, or freedom fighter rebels against the tyrannical government.

 

That said, I share the vote for all of the following nice suggestions that other forumites have made (thrown in one big quote since I'm just lazy ):

 

I'd like to see a section on the social life of the inmates. The U.S. Constitution's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment does not allow prisons to hold all prisoners in permanent isolation because social contact is a basic human need. Given that, if the prisoners are allowed some time during the day to mingle, what do they do? Do they form gangs or cliques? Do they make contacts and hatch plots for when they return to the outside? How do their superpowers affect their social interactions? If there is some sort of superpower suppressor device in operation, how does the loss of superpowers affect the psychology/morale of former demi-gods?

 

 

1. Body & DEF of all walls, doors, machines, etc., as well as any special defenses or vulnerabilities.

 

2. Guidelines for determining the success, failure, or partial success of attempts to destroy or circumvent particular security features by brute force or by skill (e.g. security systems, mechanics, or computer programming).

 

 

1) Super Guards: Is the prison staff all normals? Are they PRIMUS agents? Maybe a brick or an energy projector able to do containment-style force walls could help keep control. Perhaps a retired Silver Age hero is the warden, or (feeding into my second request) a Silver Avenger. Do they use battlesuit technology?

 

2) Who's in charge here?: How does Stronghold fit in the scheme of the CU justice system? Is it under the federal prison system's control? Does PRIMUS control it?

 

3) Guantanamo Bay: How does the ACLU feel about a place like Stronghold? Are there protests against Stronghold by the public? Is the media biased against it? Do prisoners try and use the media to gain sympathy?

 

4) Solitary confinement: Is every prisoner kept locked in a cell all day? Are they allowed to mingle with each other for meals or exercise periods like non-powered inmates can? I assume there will be some inmates that are so powerful/dangerous/psychotic that they can't be allowed out of solitary.

 

5) Gender: Are prisoners sorted by gender into separate cell blocks/levels? Are they grouped by power-level, ignoring gender?

 

6) Levels: Are there varying security levels in Stronghold? The real hard-cases would be down in the lower levels, but less dangerous prisoners would be on a different level of the facility from them.

 

what about those convicts who are not serious escape risks, or whose crimes aren't particularly violent, but the nature of whose powers makes Stronghold the only practical option for incarceration? Are they treated just like everyone else, or do they get privileges such as outdoor exercise?

 

6) A look at special holding facilities constructed to hold a single supervillain because of the danger he/she/it poses to us all.

 

7) A quick look at capital punishment in relation to metahuman crime would also be nice (though not pleasant).

 

Also, holographic lives in hot sleep (a la 'The Green' in Next Men, for example) seems to be a popular theme. Any chance or speculation or opening for the Hot Sleepers to think they're awake in a mutual shared illusion?

 

The Demolition Man - Cryoprisons and Conditioning

 

Who runs the cigarette smuggling? Is there a shop and a laundry room? Is working there considered a privilege or a punishment? What prison cliques exist? What do these cliques all do, exactly, and who runs them? There should, for example, be an informal Viper nest inside Stronghold. Who runs it, and what sort of activities is it involved in?

 

More importantly, how are your players going to get out?

 

The latter bit shouldn't be construed by GMs as permission to turn Stronghold into a revolving door for supervillains. Make sure to mark any typical escape routes as something special for players and very select NPCs only.

 

Plus some ideas for introducing the players (as villains) to life inside Stronghold. Not quite a full adventure, but some ideas for getting them to know the ropes.

 

Post-block life, where the villain repents or just cuts a deal to do dirty deeds for the government would be nice. Sounds like you may have intended to include some idea of how long a parolee may expect to be on parole, which would be great.

 

How about some overview of the process by which the techs determine which powers they need to plan for? Is it all just based on a bio-scan plus collecting anecdotal lists of what the villain has been observed to do in the past? What kinds of things will a full examination tell them, and what ace-in-the-hole powers might slip by?

 

What do they do with criminals whose powers they haven't figured out how to neutralize, and who have the right life support that hot sleep isn't an option?

 

Also, what about super-powered arrestees who haven't yet been convicted? Do they go to Stronghold to await trial? Are they put in with the regular population?

 

As a GM I would like the "GMing Stronghold" section to include notes on some of the weaknesses of the prison - structural, technical, and procedural - with suggestions for how they might be exploited by villains (or heroes) trying to escape, or to break out other inmates. It would also be nice if the administration and structure of Stronghold would allow for PC heroes to temporarily join the guards of the prison, to allow for some extended stories set there.

 

Life after Stronghold - Ex Cons and the Legal System, Parole Officers, Superhuman Bounty Hunters.

 

Accessibility to Family Members, the Media, Protesters, and etc...

 

Hot Sleep vs Human Rights - Not just the Legal Ramifications, but the Personal Ones.

 

"Flood the place with poison gas. Its the only way to be sure!" - Stopping Vigilantes, Mercenaries, and I.H.A. Minute Men VII Robots from attacking, rescuing, and killing convicts.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I don't think I saw this mentioned. What about detailing a few of the notable breakouts in Stronghold's history?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Does Stronghold have a juvie section? Brawler Boy is too tough for the regular juvenile detention system, but throwing him in with the likes of Ripper probably isn't going to make him shape up.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

4. Suggestions for using Stronghold in alternate ways' date=' [i']especially in other genres[/i]. I know something like this has already been said and I know this is a CU product, but a modest amount of work on this front (e.g., in an appendix) would substantially increase the likely of the book being bought by those of us who rarely play in traditional supers games.

Yes -- an appendix of maybe a page or two, using other Hero Universe settings as examples, would be a great boon for the product as well as for GMs running those other genres -- especially Fantasy and Sci-Fi. It wouldn't need to be any more involved than, "Just do A, B, C, and D, and optionally do E and F, and you're set!" (It would probably consist mostly of adjusting Active Points and Special Effects, though changes to the political structures would probably be needed too, and some references to books such as Spacer's Toolkit or Enchanted Items could be snuck in.)

 

For that matter it might not even need an appendix -- notes that simple could probably go into the Introduction.

 

(I certainly could see the CCR, if not the Terran Empoire, creating a super-secure prison facility for high-powered cyborgs, Omega-class psionics, and others with greatly enhanced abilities. And while it's a bit more of a stretch, I wouldn't put such a thing past Vashkor in the Turakian Age setting.)

[Steve]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Does Stronghold have a juvie section? Brawler Boy is too tough for the regular juvenile detention system' date=' but throwing him in with the likes of Ripper probably isn't going to make him shape up.[/quote']

 

You know, that's a very good point. How does the juvenile justice system in the CU deal with superpowered teens?

[Borrg]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Please can we have the goofy looking robots from the original make an appearance?

[FenrisUlf]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Please can we have the goofy looking robots from the original make an appearance?

 

I second this. I liked those weird-looking robots.

[CorPse]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I am glad to see that this chapter will cover the prisoner transport problem. I want to see the equipment and vehicles that the super-powered Con-Air uses.

 

Me too me on this...

[CorPse]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I'd love for the breakout scenario to get into how to run an extended Fugitive/Prison Break adventure. Chasin' after folks would be an interesting change for most campaigns. Also, is there a particular paranormal they'd bring in to help out... like a dude named Bloodhound, or some great-at-finding-people mentalist?