matrix3 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 What are some builds people have created/encountered that have been more effective than you'd initially thought? Not munchkinny builds, just cases where you whip up a character (or the GM whips up an NPC), and something really comes together in an unexpected fashion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? About 15 years ago, we had a guy write up a clown as a hero, with a carpetr bag the turned into a clown car, a small pool for things like seltzer water, cream pies, etc. The hero caused the team the most headaches, but ultimately was a diverse, often leaned upon utility character, surprisingly he was also respectable in a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Gadget/Cannon characters can be extremely effective in appropriate situations (Hawkeye, Green Arrow, Green Goblin, etc...). Mostly because of the points saved on having a significant portion of their 'punch' built into foci of various sorts. Campaign active point and damage class caps can create 'islands' of effectiveness too. 'Hard' DC caps give Bricks an edge in raw power vs. Martial Artists just due to the use of Haymakers (which almost never increases a Martial Artist's max damage). Mechanics aside, a character designed (appropriately) for one type of campaign can be suprisingly effective in another just by having a few powers that are 'plot busting' for that setting. A GM can lay out ground rules for what's allowed in his campaign to limit this somewhat. But inevitably the campaign has to adjust to the characters/players as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? 'Hard' DC caps give Bricks an edge in raw power vs. Martial Artists just due to the use of Haymakers (which almost never increases a Martial Artist's max damage). Actually, that applies to any non-Martial Artist, as any attack other than Martial Maneuvers can be Haymakered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Actually' date=' that applies to any non-Martial Artist, as any attack other than Martial Maneuvers can be Haymakered.[/quote'] Sure, but the more subtle point is that you could make two nearly identical HTH-centric characters where one has Hand To Hand Attacks and CSL's and the other has traditional Martial Art Maneuvers and the one without MA's automatically has a higher potential if hard DC caps are in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Sure' date=' but the more subtle point is that you could make two [u']nearly identical [/u]HTH-centric characters where one has Hand To Hand Attacks and CSL's and the other has traditional Martial Art Maneuvers and the one without MA's automatically has a higher potential if hard DC caps are in place. Yup. Which is why, IMO, Maneuver Damage from MA Maneuvers shouldn't count against hard DC caps, just as Maneuver Damage from other maneuvers does not. MA Damage Classes should count, though, as they are mechanically identical to limited STR (Only to increase MA Maneuver effects). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevenall Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? It's not all that surprising, but I have a character in my campaign with Invisibility and a high Find Weakness roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Bricks with high SPD and DEX. Actually not really surprising... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Brick STR + x2 Knockback. And a really good damage roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Shrinking Brick. A player had "pocket brick" character with decent baseline stats and a splash of CSLs, then added Density Increase and Shrinking linked together (along with Desolid) to represent the ability to control his density. He was a terror in combat. With forty points of each, anything that managed to hit him had better roll well or it was going to slide off. The added STR also made his hits really sting, and even against high DEX opponents he could keep swinging until he managed a hit. And once the team ninja taught him Stealth, he was effectively invisible out of combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Actually, bricks with any body control power. Shrinking, Stretching, Growth, DI. Strength is the problem. X Active Points in STR is very strong compared to other powers and stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utech Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? AOE INT Drain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedifensor Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? A 4 SPD energy projector - low DEX, high defenses, big Energy Blast, minimal movement powers. Sure, I was the slowest person in the group - but you don't have to be mobile when you have a ranged attack. Plus, the first time the high-DCV martial artist came after me, I spread my EB by 5d6, using the +5 OCV to guarantee a hit on him. Good times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? I have had a surprising amount of sucess with the high-DCV 'egshell with a sledgehammer' builds. You know the type: High DEX and SPD, big attack, and 3+ DCV levels, likes to hold and dodge a lot, hits HARD when he does attack... Of course, that may be because our GM still thinks 25-30 PD is brick-level defenses in a 16 DC game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Did a Luck based build for a friend that used Combat Skill Levels with various types of Limited attached to them. The character never got to use all of them at once but his OCV and DCV were typically higher than any challenge that came at us. This got really ugly when multiple parameters were triggered such as when fighting several henchmen along with a Major villain and they teamed up on him. There were moments when he just didn't want us to take him out because he didn't want to loose those levels in badass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? No surprise about Speed Bricks, but even if they aren't all that strong or fast they still pack one hell of a punch. I've seen a couple of GM's massively underestimate the effectiveness of a Beast or Spider-man homage. In one case it was because the Spider-man guy happened to be on a team with a Superman homage. The player was even told that they might be overshadowed in combat by the Superman when the game started. After all, the Spider-man guy was inferior in just about all ways (lower STR, lower overall Movement, lower PD/ED, etc), but he had a slight edge in raw DEX and knew how to combine his abilites to maximum effect (including having martial arts with Fmove maneuvers). Plus he had a MUCH more diverse skill set (Ninja Science geek vs Country Bumpkin Reporter), so he was useful in a lot more situations. Also, could just be a playstyle thing, but I've found characters with a really high perception roll (18- or more) and maybe a few enhanced senses to be a lot more effective than most people seem to realize. Going overboard on the senses is sometimes a problem though. Those points add up fast and you eventually hit a point of diminishing returns. Shrinking + DI was pretty crazy dangerous... Loved my Archer. I even deliberately hamstrung his raw combat effectiveness slightly. He started off doing less damage than everyone in the party (6DCs, but he eventually worked up to 9 in a game with a 10DC cap). He frequently tried overly complex and fancy shots (Showoff Psych Disadvantage), so he often didn't have full use of his high OCV. He also held back a lot with his highest damage attacks because he was averse to killing (in a group that was pretty Dark Champions in tone). Finally, I burned a ton of points on background skills that didn't see much use, but which I considered vital for his character concept. With all that said and done, he was still very effective in a fight because he used a large array of non lethal exotic attacks (Entangles, Change Environment, Darkness, Flash, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkmanDan Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? My most recent character in a Champions campaign was significantly more effective than expected. STR 30, relatively high DEX stretching-based mini-brick. Started with a multipower of stretching tricks, eventually moved to a VPP. He was fast, hard to hit, and the ability to change STR to one hex AOE meant he could do grabs and throws at will. Also had 25% DR. Was a lot of fun, and really effective in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? Brick STR + x2 Knockback. And a really good damage roll... Yeah, good job destroying Canada there, Big Guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? My most surprising build was my brick that didn't play the DCV game. Went with 8 Dex, 4 Spd. Just went with defenses and STR. (Oh, and enough OCV levels. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? All of the FMove martial arts are very very effective. I built a pretty run of the mill low end speedster with speedster martial arts. I was surprised at what a quantum leap of impact 15 pts of those MA had over the traditional levels with move through / move by, route. One GM I played with refused to allow FMove martial arts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? I dominated a early (1st or 2nd edition) version of the game with a speed 12 dex 40 flight 30" (must touch a surface, 1/2 end). Campaign limits since then make such a build impossible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quozaxx Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? I was in a game once, where a player had a character with 16d6 of Luck. The GM allowed him to roll it 16 times (1 time for each d6) in a game session. He hogged almost every game we were in. Now as a GM, I cap Luck at 3d6. Also, a high PD/ED damage resistance (like 20 - 30), added to a 50% damage reduction. Even if you get through the defenses, if doens't hurt him much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? This may not be too surprising but it was effective. Our entire team was almost layed low by the enemy team's Brick awhile back. His name was Sloth (picture a humanoid one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatherium) and his secondary power was an AE SPD Suppress. We normally gang on up weak members of a villain team first and save the Brick for last but after a few phases we were all crawling (except Sloth of course who suddenly seemed like a speedster with his massive SPD of 3!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? I had a time-manipulating character inspired by a bad guy from Alpha Flight who could call copies of himself back from the near future. That gave him some amusing precognitive powers - it also gave him the ability to boost his SPD and Duplicate. Otherwise, he was a fairly weak martial artist, but for one turn he could be SPD12 and there were 16 of him. He got by the GM without problem because his attacks and defences were so low, and his precognitive powers very limited. It's true he was pretty much helpless against Bricks, but against almost every other archetype he simply swamped them in a hail of puny little fists. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMike Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Re: Surprisingly Effective Builds? 1D6 RKA with +2 Variable advantage worked pretty well in a 60 AP DC cap game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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