Christopher Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... If the idea is to get new players into Hero' date=' then asking them to go buy some product to use your freebie with seems self defeating.[/quote'] Well, the rules + the adventure + the characters in anything remotely near 5 pages? Better figure out what the result of division by 0 is instead, might go anywhere in time. One possible circumvention would be if there where short rules as freeby, example character as freeby and the 5 page adventure as freeby. Alternaitvely replace the free Short Rules with "6E Basic Rulebook". It's a pretty cheap book and about the only way to give a short overview about the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... How did rules get into this? I think you're confusing this with another thread, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Don't some of those 2-4 page foldovers assume you own $75+ worth of rules and supplemental materials already? I don't think that assuming product ownership is a problem in itself, as long as it's made clear what you need. For, for instance, Fantasy Hero mini-adventures, would it be inappropriate to assume prospective users of the material actually own Fantasy Hero? I know, at the other end it can get ridiculous. "This product assumes you own HERO System 6th Edition volumes 1 and 2, both Advanced Players' Guides, the Bestiary, the Equipment Guide, Fantasy Hero, the Grimoire..." I'd suggest leaving it to whoever is writing the product, with strongly suggested categories: Basic; V1+V2+one genre book, either of those plus one or more rules supplements (Martial Arts, Vehicles, etc.). Perhaps a secondary set of highly recommended books: the Bestiary and/or Grimoire, Equipment plus Vehicles, and so on. (Handy icons to make it easy to tell at a glance? Edit: I suggest a few categories, denominated in 1-3 hexes: 1 hex is low, 3 is high. For instance, something might be rated GM: 3 hexes, Players: 1 hex, Materials: 1 hex. Meaning, a skilled and experienced GM can run this with new players and Basic.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... To follow up my own posting, part of the reason I bring this up is that we can save time and space by referring to things that are in whichever books we need: "To find the stats for the Flying Dork, take the Competent Normal (p. xx) and add 12m of Flight and the "Throwing Badger" power from p. YY..." And saving time and space can be nothing but good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kap Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... I was thinking Savage Worlds has a tool called the “One sheet Adventures”. Downloading these and reading them was enough that I bought a lot of Savage Worlds material so I could have context and convert them. The idea would be to make an adventure that fits on 5 pages or less and include stats for any bad guys or mobs the players are expected to encounter. I think this would be a good idea for HERO and could get people buying & playing HERO. I am going to try and write up a couple, but while I work on a few, figured I could see if anyone else would be interested in giving it a try. Once completed we could start a new post or even give them free to HERO Games to post in a “Free” section. That is a nifty proposition. Do you have a link to an example? I think I might try to write one or ten but I would do a much better job if I saw something to model it after. --Kap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kap Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... To follow up my own posting, part of the reason I bring this up is that we can save time and space by referring to things that are in whichever books we need: "To find the stats for the Flying Dork, take the Competent Normal (p. xx) and add 12m of Flight and the "Throwing Badger" power from p. YY..." And saving time and space can be nothing but good. I would assume the reader owns the basic book and additional info as needed, but that may be my personal bias against having to refer to multiple books to play a simple adventure. I think your idea here is pretty good for saving space, though, if we're limited to 5-6 pages. --Kap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... To follow up my own posting' date=' part of the reason I bring this up is that we can save time and space by referring to things that are in whichever books we need: "To find the stats for the Flying Dork, take the Competent Normal (p. xx) and add 12m of Flight and the "Throwing Badger" power from p. YY..."[/quote'] Doing it this way would be a faux-save. Because it is either too unwieldy to use in game (you have to look at multiple souces), or them GM has to write the complete sheet/information on his own. So it's eitpher unpractical or giving the GM more work to do*, both of wich would defeat any use for new GM's. (* or even worse, an inexperienced GM might not detect the need to write something up here, so it will negatively impact the gameflow). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... If the idea is to get new players into Hero' date=' then asking them to go buy some product to use your freebie with seems self defeating.[/quote'] HERO costs money to play. That's the framework any "support" scheme we concoct must work under until that changes. Furthermore, the OP's idea was inspired by Savage Worlds using such a scheme. Maybe we don't have the whole story, but I journey to guess that it doesn't hurt them. I think the perspective needs to change. It's not "here's free stuff so you'll play HERO." It should be more like "if you play HERO, here's all this free stuff." It's similar, but not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... I think most of these should be aimed at just needing the core rules (6E1+2). Perhaps call them "Core Modules" or some such. "Basic" modules can be designed for those with just the Basic book but might need more in the way of character write-ups and such. Modules that require genre/setting/ or other additional books should very clearly state this. Perhaps call them "Advanced Modules" or use the name of the additional books needed like "Fantasy Hero Module" or some such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... HERO costs money to play. That's the framework any "support" scheme we concoct must work under until that changes. Furthermore, the OP's idea was inspired by Savage Worlds using such a scheme. Maybe we don't have the whole story, but I journey to guess that it doesn't hurt them. I think the perspective needs to change. It's not "here's free stuff so you'll play HERO." It should be more like "if you play HERO, here's all this free stuff." It's similar, but not the same. OK, I see what you guys are saying. Rather than getting new players, it's more aimed at supporting players who already have the books and could use some material to go with them. With the core books, the genre book, and a bestiary and/or rogue's gallery and/or setting book required, there's not much getting around the up front costs when talking about making a short adventure. Given that, then referencing page numbers for write ups makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... OK' date=' I see what you guys are saying. Rather than getting new players, it's more aimed at supporting players who already have the books and could use some material to go with them. [/quote'] I was under the impression that is was going to be geared for new players. But that is what I'm working on for new players and using the basic rulebook. And (if I get something done) for clarity sake will be labeld for basic. Already I can see that to build somethings the way I want, is going to be built differently using basic than using the core rules. (Its not a problem, just different. And I don't see the point of using basic and then having to refer to the core rules. That defeats the purpose in my opinion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Does anybody remember net.books? Not the mini laptops, but compilations of RPG stuff that people used to put together on Usenet. One of the early online repositories of Hero characters was the Great Net.Book of Real Heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Yep. Don't remember that . in there though. http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted February 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... The idea was that players who are actually playing the game will be more likely to spend money on more materials. A player who buys HERO System Basic and enjoys a few games, may decide to buy HERO System 6th Edition or even buy, genre supplements. Example: Joe owns HERO Basic and GM's a couple simple games, decides he will buy the full books, next his players want their own copies so they buy Characters. Maybe one of them likes to post online and decides to ask questions and all of a sudden a new board member is here learning about lots of other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... The idea was that players who are actually playing the game will be more likely to spend money on more materials. A player who buys HERO System Basic and enjoys a few games, may decide to buy HERO System 6th Edition or even buy, genre supplements. Example: Joe owns HERO Basic and GM's a couple simple games, decides he will buy the full books, next his players want their own copies so they buy Characters. Maybe one of them likes to post online and decides to ask questions and all of a sudden a new board member is here learning about lots of other stuff. I see this. I coming from, I buy Hero Basic, there is no (ready) support. I get discourged and never buy a Hero book again. And worse, tell people not to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concord Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... to do this type of adventure/encounter support, you can do a couple of 'character' packs to support the adventures/encounters... give them away for free from the same site where the adventure packs are available... for fantasy you could have one with pre-gen characters, one with adversaries and the third is a small bestiary... then the adventure packs could be kept small by referencing the 'character' packs for encounters... maybe include one new 'feature' adversary or new 'magic item' write up in each adventure/encounter pack... for superhero you could have one with pre-gen characters, one with adversaries and the third is agents/gear... then once again the adventure packs could be kept small by referencing the 'character' packs for encounters... maybe include one new 'big-bad guy' or some 'special equipment' details in each adventure/encounter pack... the pre-gen characters, adversaries and beasts/agents can be put together with options like they do in the Champions genre book... a solid framework for the base character type with a couple of choices of 'package deals' that allow personalization... another way to make the character packs easier on new players would be to go numbers lite in the presentation of the character... no costs on sheet and abilities explained in plain verbiage instead of a string of mechanics... then have a 'mechanics' pack available for the GM and players than want to know how things were put together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzIsBlues Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... As a gm and player of both Savage Worlds and Hero I think this is a fabulous idea. The real strength of the 1 page adventures from Pinnacle is that they very quickly very easily allow players and gm's to ramp up a game and get it going which makes running games in genres other than what we are used to a less daunting endeavor. One way to think about these sorts of adventures is to look at them as if one were running a game at a gaming convention. At a convention you have about 4 hours to play the entire game and you are likely to have players who have never seen the game system before. Thus, it is a very good idea to "Keep it simple" don't use this as a venue to explore new and esoteric rules or complicated constructs. Straight forward and to the point are the orders of the day. I'm going to write up a couple of these in different genre and post them on my own blog for people to enjoy or burn at the stake as they see fit. Cheers, JiB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Does anybody remember net.books? Not the mini laptops' date=' but compilations of RPG stuff that people used to put together on Usenet. One of the early online repositories of Hero characters was the Great Net.Book of Real Heroes.[/quote'] MPGN.net had a ton of stuff that I downloaded, but since I was a AD&D'er only back then I didn't download any of their other archives. I'm kicking myself even today that I never downloaded their mailing list archives and other files. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Humm...my problem with the ideal of a one page Champions adventure is how do we do writeups shorthand? It was extremly posable in Champions 1-3, but in Hero 6ed, I had to work hard to give my first charater writeup of it. Doctor Dair, enougth points for a 400+75 point starting villian. I shutter at how I can shorthand my Queen Nightmara writeup. Which reminds me, I got to post her evil grace before she disintergates me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... This has is something I have been working on. I can get an average full write up on about half a page and a quick write up about 1/4 page. It seams hard to get it much smaller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Remember now that the initial post suggests a five page count, not one. I prefer the six page suggestion though. I imagine wider margins, smaller font sizes, and thinner font faces would all add up to reducing page count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Remember now that the initial post suggests a five page count, not one. I prefer the six page suggestion though. I imagine wider margins, smaller font sizes, and thinner font faces would all add up to reducing page count. I am not a fan of anything less than Font Size 11. Even with my glasses, it becomes hard to read. And if it is only to play via laptop, there is no need to save place anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Does anybody remember net.books? Not the mini laptops' date=' but compilations of RPG stuff that people used to put together on Usenet. One of the early online repositories of Hero characters was the Great Net.Book of Real Heroes.[/quote'] I contributed quite a few of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... I am not a fan of anything less than Font Size 11. Even with my glasses, it becomes hard to read. And if it is only to play via laptop, there is no need to save place anyway. I prefer size 8, but I realize that's uncommon. As far as saving space, I think the idea is that we can claim to have oodles of adventures presented in X pages or less. Saving space allows for more material to fit into those amounts. We should come up with writing standards though. What are the official HERO publication technical guidelines? We may as well follow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Support HERO Indirectly... Here is my rough draft of the first adventure in the series, the player primer and the characters. Note You can only post 5 files at a time, so the last character will be in the next post. [ATTACH=CONFIG]41909[/ATTACH] IST 00 - Player Primer [ATTACH=CONFIG]41908[/ATTACH] IST 01 - What About The Goblins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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