Arrow ~

[Pattern Ghost]

What could it all mean?

[Beast]

defeat of the big bad

 

What could it all mean?

[zslane]

There was a Black Canary wannabe in last week's episode. There seems to be no lengths the writers won't go to in order to keep the character in the series without a Lance in the leathers.

[Pattern Ghost]

Uh, they've always had a Lance in the leathers. They just played musical Lances.

 

I think the character from last week was a throw away character, though they did build up her gymnastics and academics quite a bit. Hmm. I should google her name and see if she's some random DC character they may want to shoehorn in. . .

 

Edit:

 

Here's something from the Arrowverse wiki:

 

 

 

In the DC comics, on Prime Earth Evelyn Crawford is ally of The Black Canary known under the Vigilante alias Starling who was an member of the reformed Birds Of Prey.

[Beast]

 

It looked that the Darhk's plan was to discredit our heroes by using a doppleganger for the one they believe to be dead(so Laural's plan worked)
It cost her Secret ID
but it also cost Darhk the police going after our heroes(so a thorn is avoided)
considering the body count HIVE taking(suicide tooth) this may have shown they are running low on grunts                              `

 

[Pattern Ghost]

I don't understand any of that.

[Beast]

we know that Ollie knows cures for poisons(he probably also knows to use them
so Laural asks Ollie to make her look like she died
this protects her father
it also allows her to heal
giving Black Canary a bad rep hurts team Arrow and puts the cops on to chase down team Arrow(Diggle's stunt helped give team Arrow a bad rep)

Ollie outing a "dead" Laurel as BC holds the team as the good guys and shows that Darhk's Ghosts still are around and now trying to discredit team Arrow(it failed)and the  new mayor is a fool

[Starlord]

I don't understand any of that.

 

You have to click on the the button that says 'Spoiler'. 

[Pattern Ghost]

You have to click on the the button that says 'Spoiler'. 

 

Just needed a translation from Beast-ese.

[Pattern Ghost]

we know that Ollie knows cures for poisons(he probably also knows to use them

so Laural asks Ollie to make her look like she died

this protects her father

it also allows her to heal

giving Black Canary a bad rep hurts team Arrow and puts the cops on to chase down team Arrow(Diggle's stunt helped give team Arrow a bad rep)

Ollie outing a "dead" Laurel as BC holds the team as the good guys and shows that Darhk's Ghosts still are around and now trying to discredit team Arrow(it failed)and the  new mayor is a fool

 

That's an interesting theory, but I think Laurel is actually dead. We may see her in flashbacks or meet her Earth 2 or other counterpart, but I don't think it's a trick. Going strictly by in show information, the team would have had to be major asses not to let her father in on the plan fairly early on.

 

Then again, letting the guy nearly have a heart attack and go through an extended period of mental anguish would be par for the course for them, so you could be right.

[zslane]

Uh, they've always had a Lance in the leathers. They just played musical Lances.

Yeah, I just worded my post really poorly, sorry.

 

What I was trying to express was that the writers seem to want to keep a Black Canary in the series, even if that means putting someone else in the suit other than a Lance. It's their way of eating their cake (eliminating all the Lance girls from the series) and having it too (still having a Canary in some form running around Star City).

[Pattern Ghost]

OK, I see what you're saying. I'm not sure if that's their intent yet, though given the new character it could well be. I hope not, because it makes no sense to write out Laurel if they actually wanted to have a Black Canary, barring the actress wanting to leave the show or at least step down to guest appearance frequency. It's kind of a shame, as I thought that the Laurel Canary was finally starting to shape up nicely.

[Pattern Ghost]

OK, based on this (emphasis added by me), from here, it doesn't look like the choice was driven by Katie Cassidy wanting to leave:

 

 

 

“The last scene I think I shot was we had to do a reshoot actually of when I actually die, when Darhk stabs the Black Canary,” Katie shared, saying she kept Black Canary’s jacket and mask as keepsakes. “That was a week after. That was the very last scene that we shot. It was so weird because I remember we had broken for lunch, we came back and I was running to set and I was putting on my jacket and gloves and they were just calling me to set to show-wrap me. I didn’t know that I was done. It was a bit of a shock. But it was good. I feel like there was no other way that I would want it to go.”

 

So, it must've been from the showrunners' side. Which begs the question of what the point was.

[bigdamnhero]

They sure went all in to give Laurel a moving send off, but I'm still not convinced that she's truly for-realz permanently dead, based on the way they handled it. If Darkh had killed her outright, or she died on the operating table immediately afterwards? Sure. But have her nearly die, survive, be in recovery, ask Ollie for Some Mysterious Thing, and then suddenly die for no apparent reason? No way. Hollywood injuries don't work like that. And yes, Ollie is the World's Biggest Asshole for letting her parents go through that, but I'm sure they'll handwave it as "Laurel insisted." Hmm..could Ollie's obvious pain actually be a result of what he's having to put Quentin et. al. through, rather than grief?

 

I could be wrong of course; wouldn't be the first time. Problem is, if she stays dead the way they set it up robbed her death of any real impact on me because I'm convinced it's a fake-out.

 

As for the Temp BC: I didn't get the impression that Darkh set her up; the Temp did that on her own to get revenge against Darkh for his killing her parents. Mrs. Mayor Darkh just took advantage of the situation to stir up anti-vigilante sentiment.

[zslane]

I had the same suspicions as you, bdh. It made no sense given the standard Hollywood dramatic formula usually in play. Her death felt a bit too mysterious to be taken at face value. But if Katie really is done, then her character probably is dead after all.

[Bazza]

There is so much bad writing in the series(s), I just don't care--I'll rest on my Laurels. I much prefer her sister.

 

I read the one of the producers is also involved in bringing Archie & Co to the small screen in Riverdale. Due to the bad writing, from his other 4 series, I don't care. I would be interested if said producer wasn't involved.

[zslane]

I'm with you Bazza. I'm Team Caity, not Team Katie, all the way. I think the first Canary was the best Canary, despite her perma-pouty face. Legends of Tomorrow doesn't deserve her. Doesn't deserve Snart either, but what can you do.

 

I feel bad for Katie Cassady that the writers never quite knew what to do with Laurel as a character. Should she be Oliver's love interest? Should she become Black Canary? Should she be a saccharine do-gooder or a complicated, hot mess? I kind of feel that putting her into the Black Canary role was a last ditch attempt to make her appealing to fans. It maybe sorta worked, a little, but I also think it was too little too late. Most viewer's (poor) opinions of Laurel weren't going to change that much no matter what they did, and asking her to stand in the shadow of Caity's superior characterization was unfair.

 

I'll be giving up on Flash and Arrow at the end of the current season, and given the poor prognosis for Supergirl, it looks like I'll only be getting my tv superhero fix from Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix MCU shows. I shouldn't be too surprised that only Marvel seems to know how to keep me entertained, not just on the big screen, but on the small one too.

[bigdamnhero]

Personally I'll take Arrow & Flash over Agents of SHIELD - at least the Arrowverse is seldom boring. But I have to agree with you re Caity/Katie.

[Greywind]

http://tvline.com/2016/04/06/katie-cassidy-leaves-arrow-laurel-death-season-4-interview/

[slikmar]

I'm with you Bazza. I'm Team Caity, not Team Katie, all the way. I think the first Canary was the best Canary, despite her perma-pouty face. Legends of Tomorrow doesn't deserve her. Doesn't deserve Snart either, but what can you do.

 

I feel bad for Katie Cassady that the writers never quite knew what to do with Laurel as a character. Should she be Oliver's love interest? Should she become Black Canary? Should she be a saccharine do-gooder or a complicated, hot mess? I kind of feel that putting her into the Black Canary role was a last ditch attempt to make her appealing to fans. It maybe sorta worked, a little, but I also think it was too little too late. Most viewer's (poor) opinions of Laurel weren't going to change that much no matter what they did, and asking her to stand in the shadow of Caity's superior characterization was unfair.

 

I'll be giving up on Flash and Arrow at the end of the current season, and given the poor prognosis for Supergirl, it looks like I'll only be getting my tv superhero fix from Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix MCU shows. I shouldn't be too surprised that only Marvel seems to know how to keep me entertained, not just on the big screen, but on the small one too.

I sometimes wonder if the major use of Willa's Thea interfered with using the hot mess for Laurel, as Thea is one in every way.

[bigdamnhero]

http://tvline.com/2016/04/06/katie-cassidy-leaves-arrow-laurel-death-season-4-interview/

Couldn't get past the Wall Of Ads to actually read the article. But doesn't that contradict her earlier interview where she didn't know she was being written off until after they filmed the scene?

[Greywind]

No. She knew Laurel would be killed. She didn't know she would be leaving. After all, Sara has been killed, what? Three times now and still going?

[Pattern Ghost]

I wish they'd kill Diggle's stupid Magneto mask.

[slikmar]

I wish they'd kill Diggle's stupid Magneto mask.

Given his name Spartan, and that Cisco is supposedly doing some upgrades, I keep waiting for him to end up with a modified helmet.

[Pattern Ghost]

Yeah, I got my hopes up after that exchange. Maybe they'll get him a better design next season. Or they could just have been toying with us.