Jump to content

Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

Bazza

By Bazza
in Non-Gaming Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

Twilight Mentor

Twilight

Posted
Posted

This is the advantage of the MCU, to me - they can re-envision the characters and only the fanboys know. The movies have worked in large part because they did not enslave themselves to 50+ years of backstory.

I certainly agree with you there.  I mean sure, I would prefer a Nova Corps where the members actually had superpowers as they do in the comics but aside from that I think it's worked out quite well all things considered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 11.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Bazza
Bazza

Chris Pratt:    

Greywind
Greywind
mattingly
mattingly

Posted Images

Hugh Neilson Grand Master

Hugh Neilson

Posted
Posted

I've enjoyed the movies. At the same time, I can see Engelhart's point - the Mantis he created is not in the movie - her name and a bit of her appearance have been co-opted. Unlike a lot of characters, she's pretty much been written by one writer over the years, so I can see him being unhappy when the character he sees on the screen is "Mantis in Name Only", rather than a more faithful version of the character he created.

 

It will be interesting to see where they go with Adam Warlock - his backstory is definitely being heavily modified, and that character has had a few incarnations over the years. I doubt they plan on devoting the time his history with Thanos from the comics would need, so the combination will definitely be quite different from the comics' version. But, again, he's not exactly a household name. Too bad they ditched the much more faithful to the comics cocoon we saw in the Collector's zoo, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bazza Proficient

Bazza

Posted
  • Author
Posted

So, instead of Mantis being a stereotypical Asian war bride in the comics, her mother is. Not much different than what the article is accusing the movie of, just off by a generation and the movie only implies the connection if you squint your eyes and look at it sideways.

Really? Her father is Libra, a former member of the super crims Zodiac. If you have read Avengers Forever you will have met Libra (like I did) as someone "of the balance" who can move between/in-between dimensions. So no "war bride" there.

 

As for the martial arts: She's still of Asian descent and still knows martial arts, regardless of who trained her. Comics version is actually half Asian by the story. Movie Mantis doesn't know martial arts and is an alien, so movie version wins there.

Disagree. Comics Mantis is an empowered woman, and able to hold her own against heavy hitters like Thor. By contrast MCU Mantis comes across as a passive person.

 

Also Mantis' story has been told in DC, Eclipse Comics & Image before returning and resuming in Marvel.

 

Really, the comic version of the character is rife with bad stereotypes and fan service.

Can you elaborate?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pattern Ghost Veteran

Pattern Ghost

Posted
Posted

Really? Her father is Libra, a former member of the super crims Zodiac. If you have read Avengers Forever you will have met Libra (like I did) as someone "of the balance" who can move between/in-between dimensions. So no "war bride" there.

 

 

I haven't read Avengers Forever like you. But here's what Wikipedia says about Libra:

 

 

German soldier Gustav Brandt served with the French forces during the Vietnam War. While in Saigon, he met and fell in love with a Vietnamese woman named Lua, and eventually had a daughter with her.

 

That exactly fits the stereotype the article was applying to movie Mantis. It also happened prior to him becoming whatever he was in Avengers Forever, canonically, so  . . . war bride mom.

 

 

 

Disagree. Comics Mantis is an empowered woman, and able to hold her own against heavy hitters like Thor. By contrast MCU Mantis comes across as a passive person.

 

You aren't really disagreeing with the point I made. You just made up a different point that you think you disagree on. The very article that you posted above accuses Mantis of being a bad stereotype for being a passive Asian woman. I haven't seen the movie yet, but given the obvious slant in the article, I'm going to reserve judgement until I do. However, I do know two things:

 

1. Movie Mantis isn't from Earth. So, she can't be Asian.

2. Comics Mantis is of Asian descent and a martial artist, therefore, according to people who harp on this nonsense like the article writer, a stereotype. (An aside: Hollywood can't win with martial arts lately. If you give the main/best martial artist role to an Asian actor, you're stereotyping. If you give it to a non-Asian (especially Caucasian) actor, then you're culturally appropriating or something.)

 

 

 

Also Mantis' story has been told in DC, Eclipse Comics & Image before returning and resuming in Marvel.

 

I know this. Why do you think I don't know this? Do you think the fact that her creator managed to keep the rights to the character across publishers is significant? I don't see it.

 

 

 

Can you elaborate?

 

No. You'll just respond with more stuff that I'm forced to respond to, then we'll go round and round and round and create a space-time vortex that does irreparable damage to the universe, possibly causing a continuum where Leifield-created characters are the only movie and TV supers, and nobody wants to see that. :P

 

My central points to these two diatribes are these:

 

1. Comics aren't usually high art.

2. People whine too much about nothing.

 

MCU Mantis is a different character than an comic version of Mantis. Even if GOTG2 does commit some offenses to female characters or use some worn stereotypes that we're all supposed to be too enlightened to let slide . . . it doesn't really do any worse than the comics has done with the same character. Because you can pick apart anything if you have the time and energy. I'm willing to save the complaining until we see what they do to develop the character.

 

The vibe I was picking up from the trailers wasn't so much a passive creampuff of a character as one who seemed naive and full of wonder and innocence. I got the impression that despite her apparent age, she was practically a newborn. Given the connection to Ego, she could well be freshly hatched from some giant seed pod. Who knows? (No, really. I haven't seen the movie. What's her origin?)

 

Also, in the trailer she gets smacked by a meteor. Was that actually in the movie? Because if she survived that, then she's probably not a lightweight, just not trained in combat. Yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bazza Proficient

Bazza

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I haven't read Avengers Forever like you. But here's what Wikipedia says about Libra:

 

 

 

That exactly fits the stereotype the article was applying to movie Mantis. It also happened prior to him becoming whatever he was in Avengers Forever, canonically, so  . . . war bride mom.

Fair enough. Also good research. :)

 

You aren't really disagreeing with the point I made. You just made up a different point that you think you disagree on. The very article that you posted above accuses Mantis of being a bad stereotype for being a passive Asian woman. I haven't seen the movie yet, but given the obvious slant in the article, I'm going to reserve judgement until I do. However, I do know two things:

Fair enough. Hope you enjoy it.

 

1. Movie Mantis isn't from Earth. So, she can't be Asian.

2. Comics Mantis is of Asian descent and a martial artist, therefore, according to people who harp on this nonsense like the article writer, a stereotype. (An aside: Hollywood can't win with martial arts lately. If you give the main/best martial artist role to an Asian actor, you're stereotyping. If you give it to a non-Asian (especially Caucasian) actor, then you're culturally appropriating or something.)

Fair enough. Also Yep. Hard for Asian actors, as martial arts roles are one of the few roles they are stereotypically cast in.  

 

I know this. Why do you think I don't know this? Do you think the fact that her creator managed to keep the rights to the character across publishers is significant? I don't see it.

Okay.

 

No. You'll just respond with more stuff that I'm forced to respond to, then we'll go round and round and round and create a space-time vortex that does irreparable damage to the universe, possibly causing a continuum where Leifield-created characters are the only movie and TV supers, and nobody wants to see that. :P

You are wise. Also, welcome to the internet where "Leifield-created characters are the only movie and TV supers" are just one flame war space-time vortex away. :D

 

My central points to these two diatribes are these:

 

1. Comics aren't usually high art.

2. People whine too much about nothing.

 

MCU Mantis is a different character than an comic version of Mantis. Even if GOTG2 does commit some offenses to female characters or use some worn stereotypes that we're all supposed to be too enlightened to let slide . . . it doesn't really do any worse than the comics has done with the same character. Because you can pick apart anything if you have the time and energy. I'm willing to save the complaining until we see what they do to develop the character.

Fair enough.

 

The vibe I was picking up from the trailers wasn't so much a passive creampuff of a character as one who seemed naive and full of wonder and innocence. I got the impression that despite her apparent age, she was practically a newborn. Given the connection to Ego, she could well be freshly hatched from some giant seed pod. Who knows? (No, really. I haven't seen the movie. What's her origin?)

Good question. I saw the film a month ago, and forgot any origin -- if any -- attached to the character.

 

Also, in the trailer she gets smacked by a meteor. Was that actually in the movie? Because if she survived that, then she's probably not a lightweight, just not trained in combat. Yet.

You really want me to answer that spoiler? :eg:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hugh Neilson Grand Master

Hugh Neilson

Posted
Posted

The only comment on an origin was that Ego found her as a larva and raised her. Assuming an imperfect memory of larval state, does she actually know? For that matter, could Ego have just created her, complete with memories?

 

Seems like everyone in GoTG bounces back from pretty hard hits. Almost like it is some kind of cinematic action-adventure movie...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twilight Mentor

Twilight

Posted
Posted

I haven't read Avengers Forever like you. But here's what Wikipedia says about Libra:

 

 

 

That exactly fits the stereotype the article was applying to movie Mantis. It also happened prior to him becoming whatever he was in Avengers Forever, canonically, so  . . . war bride mom.

 

 

 

 

You aren't really disagreeing with the point I made. You just made up a different point that you think you disagree on. The very article that you posted above accuses Mantis of being a bad stereotype for being a passive Asian woman. I haven't seen the movie yet, but given the obvious slant in the article, I'm going to reserve judgement until I do. However, I do know two things:

 

1. Movie Mantis isn't from Earth. So, she can't be Asian.

2. Comics Mantis is of Asian descent and a martial artist, therefore, according to people who harp on this nonsense like the article writer, a stereotype. (An aside: Hollywood can't win with martial arts lately. If you give the main/best martial artist role to an Asian actor, you're stereotyping. If you give it to a non-Asian (especially Caucasian) actor, then you're culturally appropriating or something.)

 

 

 

 

I know this. Why do you think I don't know this? Do you think the fact that her creator managed to keep the rights to the character across publishers is significant? I don't see it.

 

 

 

 

No. You'll just respond with more stuff that I'm forced to respond to, then we'll go round and round and round and create a space-time vortex that does irreparable damage to the universe, possibly causing a continuum where Leifield-created characters are the only movie and TV supers, and nobody wants to see that. :P

 

My central points to these two diatribes are these:

 

1. Comics aren't usually high art.

2. People whine too much about nothing.

 

MCU Mantis is a different character than an comic version of Mantis. Even if GOTG2 does commit some offenses to female characters or use some worn stereotypes that we're all supposed to be too enlightened to let slide . . . it doesn't really do any worse than the comics has done with the same character. Because you can pick apart anything if you have the time and energy. I'm willing to save the complaining until we see what they do to develop the character.

 

The vibe I was picking up from the trailers wasn't so much a passive creampuff of a character as one who seemed naive and full of wonder and innocence. I got the impression that despite her apparent age, she was practically a newborn. Given the connection to Ego, she could well be freshly hatched from some giant seed pod. Who knows? (No, really. I haven't seen the movie. What's her origin?)

 

Also, in the trailer she gets smacked by a meteor. Was that actually in the movie? Because if she survived that, then she's probably not a lightweight, just not trained in combat. Yet.

 

It was in the movie.  Also prior to that point she was keeping the cosmic powered villain docile while the rest of the Guardians were figuring out how to defeat him.  Definitely not a lightweight.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pinecone Grand Master

pinecone

Posted
Posted

I got the feeling that Ego only keeps "worthy" or useful offspring around. Ego can take any form (and has). I thought Mantis is half Celestrial just like Star Lord. A few sparring sessions with Gamora, and she might start to shine, it just depends on the writers. That even keeps the Celestial Madonna thing on the back burner if needed.The "team" has two dudes, a furry bandit, two sisters, and Mantis. maybe an ex pirate to keep it 50/50 genderwise. I think people who are fussing, like to fuss.

 

 

"I am Offended that Mantis sterotypes Insect women!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bazza Proficient

Bazza

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Anyone else remember the Celestial Madonna story revolved around Mantis' spouse being a tree-like being (the Cotati)? For the MCU it would be easy to ship Mantis and Adult Groot* for the storyline. 

 

*or his brother. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
drunkonduty Experienced

drunkonduty

Posted
Posted

Anyone else remember the Celestial Madonna story revolved around Mantis' spouse being a tree-like being (the Cotati)? For the MCU it would be easy to ship Mantis and Adult Groot* for the storyline. 

 

*or his brother.

 

 

I just get a distinct "yech" feeling from this. Although it does leave us plenty of room for " He's got wood" jokes... :think:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...