Lord Liaden Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 It's also SOP for Trump to make some inflammatory announcement to distract attention from his personal troubles, which most recently include renewed attention on Russian election interference, potential obstruction of justice by him in investigating it, growing pressure to release his tax returns, and NY State investigation of his financial dealings. Pariah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Speaking of Trump and Deutsche Bank: Last week (IIRC) the radio program The Daily, with Michael Barbaro, devoted a program to this. Deutsche Bank was desperate enough to break into the New York real estate market that it was willing to loan to Trump. They got burned. Despite this, he persuaded two more divisions of Deutche Bank to loan to him -- and they got burned too. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times? Trump may be one of history's greatest grifters. But that's the limit of his business skill. I'm curious how far Deutche Bank will go to protect their records of their dealings with Trump. On the one hand, the bank's top officers might want revenge. Don't want potential clients thinking they can cheat the bank with impunity. OTOH they may not want to show the depths of their own gullibility and confusion. And given their history of dealing with dirty money, they also might not want clients thinking they'll rat them out too easily. Dean Shomshak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 5/30/2019 at 1:07 PM, Lord Liaden said: Not to mention that "liberalism" emerged first during the Enlightenment as an economic philosophy advocating most decisions in a market economy be made by individuals, with minimal government intervention -- precisely what economic "conservatives" advocate today. Almost every mainstream convention started out as a fringe idea. And many "conservative" principles boil down to, "the way it's been as far back as I can remember." Liberalism is indeed a big tent with diverse occupants. Last year The Economist did a series about its history and future, with profiles of liberal thinkers whom you would not immediately group together -- until you compare them to definitely illiberal philosophies. Then you see that yes, libertarian Hayek and interventionist Keynes may be saying very different things, but they are speaking the same language and considering the same problems. Thing is, the whole tent is under attack from ideologies that do not share the liberal assumptions that individuals and reason matter -- from nationalists that elevate tribal identity, to Jihadists that deny humanity in the name of God, to looney-tunes postmodern academics who reject the very idea of objective truth as a tool of oppression. Dean Shomshak Toxxus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 On 5/31/2019 at 9:42 AM, Toxxus said: Not sure if we're "winning", but taking actual actions instead of saber-rattling in an attempt to get a fair trade deal going isn't the worst thing I've ever seen. I'm a big fan of reciprocity. Additionally, there's a very real limit to how hard the USA and China can push each other. We're financially married at this point. A major disruption either way would be bad for both of us. I would expect a lot of unreasonable demands to save face (in both directions) before we settle on something that leaves both parties in a good place. I strongly suspect that Donald Trump doesn't understand that "face" is a hugely important factor in Oriental societies. His demands, threats, insults, and "my way or the highway" approach to negotiating trade with China, are making it politically impossible for Chinese president Xi Jinping to make any concessions to the United States lest he appear weak and vulnerable to his own people. Of course the irony there, is that Trump is himself hypersensitive to any criticism that he believes denigrates his stature. But for him that obviously cuts only one way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 3 hours ago, DShomshak said: Thing is, the whole tent is under attack from ideologies that do not share the liberal assumptions that individuals and reason matter -- from nationalists that elevate tribal identity, to Jihadists that deny humanity in the name of God, to looney-tunes postmodern academics who reject the very idea of objective truth as a tool of oppression. I'm inclined to agree. At this point in US politics, anyone who believes in science and evidence, and in trying to make things better for the common people, is some flavor of "liberal". Grailknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 Interesting opinion piece https://www.salon.com/2019/06/02/there-is-hard-data-that-shows-that-a-centrist-democrat-would-be-a-losing-candidate/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxxus Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 5:30 PM, DShomshak said: Thing is, the whole tent is under attack from ideologies that do not share the liberal assumptions that individuals and reason matter -- from nationalists that elevate tribal identity, to Jihadists that deny humanity in the name of God, to looney-tunes postmodern academics who reject the very idea of objective truth as a tool of oppression. I wish I could like your statement more than once. A moderate degree of tribalism is natural and healthy. I care about my child more than other children. I care about my family more than other families. I care about my city more than other cities. I care about my country more than other countries, etc. I don't think you can remove individuals from a healthy degree of self-interest (Captain America!) without doing the kind of damage that lead to the death of 200 million people last century. Moderation really is the key. Too far left or too far right and you're in the ditch. pinecone and massey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 I don't even think "left" and "right," "Liberal" and "Conservative," are useful categories for discussion any more. So many viewpoints on entirely different issues -- economic, social, religious -- get routinely lumped together into each camp, when individuals can subscribe to some of them but not others. It's become a tactic to simplify complex debates, and slap labels on huge swaths of the populace for the purpose of denigrating any position they might have that someone else disagrees with. Toxxus and massey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 Trump is being obnoxious in London as he has insulted the Mayor https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48495899 There is room for more 'fun' in the next few days as tomorrow there will be political protests in the capital against him. I do wish that there was a different person in charge for the 75th anniversary of D-Day which he will be attending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 hours ago, death tribble said: I do wish that there was a different person in charge for the 75th anniversary of D-Day which he will be attending Perhaps you'll get lucky and his bone spurs will keep him from attending. Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: I don't even think "left" and "right," "Liberal" and "Conservative," are useful categories for discussion any more. So many viewpoints on entirely different issues -- economic, social, religious -- get routinely lumped together into each camp, when individuals can subscribe to some of them but not others. It's become a tactic to simplify complex debates, and slap labels on huge swaths of the populace for the purpose of denigrating any position they might have that someone else disagrees with. Well... Psychologist Jonathan Haidt does find distinct patterns of thinking in self-described liberals, conservatives and libertarians, and the differences are more pronounced the more strongly they self-identify ("very conservative," "very liberal," etc.) But yes, there are people who don't fit neatly into the categories; the same "moral foundations" can lead to different conclusions (for instance, Loyalty and Authority matter more to conservatives than to liberals or libertarians, but loyalty to what group, obedience to which authority?); and different systems of moral reasoning can lead to the same result. After laying out his research in his book The Righteous Mind, Haidt urges people on all sides to try using other systems of moral reasoning as a way to persuade people of different viewpoints, instead of just yelling at them and preaching to the choir. So I'd say, that viewpoints and policies on different issues are not getting lumped together by pure accident. But the connections may not be obvious, and "poaching" of issues from one camp to another may be possible. I'd nominate same-sex marriage as an example: mIt began as a liberal issue of compassion for an oppressed minority, but became a majority viewpoint with support from libertarians who didn't want government telling them who they could marry, and conservatives wanting to stay loyal to family members and mollified by seeing LGB people showing reverence for the institution of marriage. Dean Shomshak massey and Toxxus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxxus Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 The degree to which your psychological profile predicts your political affiliation is an eye-opener to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 A reminder to not underestimate the utility of putting a few points in the perks Fame, Security Clearance, and Government Position. https://www.vox.com/2019/6/4/18651958/larry-cat-uk-trump-limo-may Cygnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 Good kitteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 Not sure this is the right thread but... there are days I am so damn ashamed for my state it hurts https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/capitol-hill/tennessee-prosecutor-gay-people-not-entitled-to-domestic-violence-protections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxxus Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Hermit said: Not sure this is the right thread but... there are days I am so damn ashamed for my state it hurts https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/capitol-hill/tennessee-prosecutor-gay-people-not-entitled-to-domestic-violence-protections You don't have to be ashamed of your state. Just THAT guy and his boss who should have corrected his behavior or started termination proceedings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 Are top prosecutors elected in that state? EDIT: Yep, he was elected. This article references it. https://www.manchestertimes.com/news/local/new-da-northcott-fires-four-from-office/article_fb8a0fdf-1fe7-567c-a3e0-6f9ab903fce2.html Let's hope the good people of Coffee County take issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 If you have to invoke the cold-blooded murder of four people half a world away to justify your political convictions, you might want to take a long, hard look at what you believe, and why. Cygnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 21 hours ago, Toxxus said: You don't have to be ashamed of your state. Just THAT guy and his boss who should have corrected his behavior or started termination proceedings. Alas, this is not the first individual elected (Though I am not in that county) that has made me worry for the collective soul of my state so to speak. Is this guy being in office my fault? No. Do I have power over him? no. Do I still feel he's an embarrassment to decency and my state's image? Oh yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 16 hours ago, Pariah said: If you have to invoke the cold-blooded murder of four people half a world away to justify your political convictions, you might want to take a long, hard look at what you believe, and why. I missed what this was in reference to? Toxxus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxxus Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Sociotard said: I missed what this was in reference to? It seems related to the mass shooting in Australia, but I have no idea what comment it was in response to. It just came out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Oh, some idiot on the Book of Face posting, "Australia has strict gun laws, and they just had a mass shooting! Gun Control doesn't work!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Their only mass shooting since they implemented strict gun laws, you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Old Man said: Their only mass shooting since they implemented strict gun laws, you mean? They've had more than that. Less than the US, for sure. But just counting shootings, from the Wikipedia "List of massacres in Australia" page. (Yeah, they have a page for that for some reason...): Wright St Bikie murders, 8 October 1999, Adelaide, Australia (3d/2i), Hell's Angels feud (mass shooting). Monash University shooting, 21 October 2002, Melbourne, Victoria, (2d/5i)Mass shooting attack by Huan Yun "Allen" Xiang. Poulson family murders, 15 September 2003, Wilberforce, New South Wales, (4d) Four-year-old Marilyn, one-year-old Sebastian and their grandfather Peter were murdered by Phitack Kongsom, who then killed himself. Oakhampton Heights Shooting, 20 March 2005, Hunter Valley, New South Wales, (4) Mass shooting attack and familicide. Sally Winter uses a firearm to kill her husband, two children, and herself. 2011 Hectorville siege, 29 April 2011, Hectorville, South Australia, (3d3i) Siege attack where Anthony Carbo murdered three people and injured three more including two police officers. Hunt family murders, 9 September 2014, Lockhart, New South Wales (5d), A mass shooting and familicide by Geoff Hunt who killed his wife and three children before turning the gun on himself. *Wedderburn shooting, 23 October 2014, Wedderburn, Victoria (3d), A mass shooting and siege by Ian Francis Jamieson who shot a husband and wife, after stabbing their son to death. 2014 Sydney hostage crisis, 15 - 16 December 2014, Sydney, NSW (3d1i) Siege. A lone gunman, Man Haron Monis, held hostage twenty customers and eight employees of a Lindt chocolate café located at Martin Place for 16 hours. The NSW Police Tactical Operations Unit shot Monis dead, after he executed a hostage. In the exchange, one person was hit by police bullet fragments, causing accidental death. Osmington shooting, 11 May 2018, Osmington, Western Australia (7d) A murder-suicide, with three adults and four children killed. A grandfather shot his four grandchildren at their home, his daughter, his wife, and then himself. June 2019 Darwin Shooting, June 4, 2019, Darwin, Northern Territory (4d1i) Four people possibly killed, one person injured in a mass shooting, police currently have the suspect in custody. So, Darwin makes 10. The one with the asterisk only has 3 victims, so counting by what seems to be the defacto U.S. standard of 4 victims or more, it'd be 9. If I counted right, there's a total of 26 since Port Arthur (not counting it), including a lot of arsons and stabbings/bashings. Violent crime trends seem to be unaffected since the gun ban. See: Trends in violent crime | Australia. The charts for everything seem to be going on steady trajectories in the same direction pre- and post- gun restrictions, with no drastic drips or rises. Note in the conclusions that there's some variation in data collection that needs to be accounted for. For example, they point out that an increase in assaults and sexual assaults may be due to more reporting than in previous years. I agree that someone piping up with "See? Gun control in Australia doesn't work!" is in extremely poor taste after a mass shooting. However, I don't see any evidence that it's had a large impact. Australia already had a downward trend in homicides. Australians still have access to firearms. The sheer number of arsons and stabbings on that list demonstrates that people who aren't armed with guns aren't necessarily deterred. At the end of the day, they have a LOT less mass murder than we do in the U.S., but then again, they always have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 The headline might be a bit overblown, but the story is interesting. The Pentagon is defying Donald Trump to protect its bases from climate change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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