Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Hermit]

No matter how many gaffs Trump or his campaign team make, nothing seems to phase his supporters. This defies all conventional wisdom about modern election campaigns. It really is boggling to watch.

 

I wonder how much of this is meant as punishment to the status quo as anything else. There is , imo, a large chunk of socially conservative, lower middle class and upper lower class America that feels snubbed, ignored, and taken for granted (And I think they're right about that, oddly enough). For decades, they've seen what career politicians do or don't do for them.... but they've seen it through the lens of dueling propagandas where each side of the status quo tarnishes the other. Should they have fallen for the gloom colored glasses? Well, I'm not sure it's fair to bash them for it when a lot of money has been spent to make sure they did.

 

So... assuming they feel that the democrats aren't going to help them (And indeed are part of the problem from their take), and third parties have no power... well, the only thing to do is take over the GOP ship! And they're going to lash the old standard politicians to the proverbial yard arm and trust in this new captain no matter how mad he seems because at least he's new, he's not one of those who have failed them again and again and again... and if they end up going down into the maelstrom, so be it! At least its different, and maybe when the ship is rebuilt, the survivors will build the next one that is meant for the whole crew, not just the elites...

 

So fly the flag of Cap'n Trump and damn the consequences! Glorious doom is better than even one more decade of being ignored

 

 

But that's just a guess, and I maybe doing folks on all sides a disservice. 

[CaptnStrawberry]

I tend to agree, this whole phenomenon seems bent on 'Creative Destruction.'

[Lawnmower Boy]

Sheesh, so the Trump campaign a) can't prepare or pay someone to prepare an original speech; b ) figures no-one will notice the plagiarism in this connected, digital age; c) wants to run the country.   As someone who occasionally writes speeches professionally, c'mon!  Even if the themes are similar, it doesn't take much effort to change the verbiage.

 

Hey, give the Trump campaign credit for getting one campaign pick right. Melania even sounds like a First Lady!

[Old Man]

I thought it sounded like skin cancer.

[Enforcer84]

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

I cleverly planned to get punched in the mouth and was able to claim victory through the swelling and missing teeth. 

[Old Man]

Let me know if you need help with that.

[Old Man]

So fly the flag of Cap'n Trump and damn the consequences! Glorious doom is better than even one more decade of being ignored

 

 

But that's just a guess, and I maybe doing folks on all sides a disservice.

No, I actually think you're spot on. This is the Tea Party "Blow It All Up" movement writ large.

 

[Enforcer84]

It's a little disconcerting to see how few of the lineup of scheduled speakers for the Republican convention are other than Trump family members. Most of the prominent elected officials in the GOP are conspicuous by their absence from this convention. If the Donald hopes to create the image of a party united behind him, I have serious doubts he can accomplish that via the convention alone.

I don't think he cares about a united party. 

[Lord Liaden]

I wonder how much of this is meant as punishment to the status quo as anything else. There is , imo, a large chunk of socially conservative, lower middle class and upper lower class America that feels snubbed, ignored, and taken for granted ...

 

If that's true, a man born with a silver spoon in his mouth, who has for decades hobnobbed with the political elite, seems like a very unlikely anti-establishment candidate for the "common man."

 

Like I said before -- humans is weird.

[Hermit]

If that's true, a man born with a silver spoon in his mouth, who has for decades hobnobbed with the political elite, seems like a very unlikely anti-establishment candidate for the "common man."

 

Like I said before -- humans is weird.

 

Agreed.

But really, a non millionaire run for President? I think that's against our constitution here or something

[Enforcer84]

The National Conventions are...scary. It's a slice of life that really makes me think  we dropped the ball as a species. 

[Old Man]

Less than 1 in a trillion chance that Melania speech similarity to Michelle Obama's is accidental

 

RNC communications director claims Melania speech is similar to My Little Pony

 

Twilight Sparkle disapproves of RNC communications director claim

 

Some GOP conventiongoers sickened with highly contagious norovirus

 

What. the. actual.  f---.

[薔薇語]

Trump:

I really hope that Trump does not become president. I do not think he will be  competent leader and think he will only further hurt the US's standing economically, socially, militarily, and politically. But, if he were to become president, I do not think it will be the end of the world. Far too often people seem to take this "X or death" kind of view of voting. Trump will not be the first time we have had an incompetent president, the first time we have had a racist president, the first time we have had a hawkish president, or any of the other negatives we ascribe to him. He will likely be a bad president. But no matter how bad we feel he will be, the US will carry on. President Obama, for all his rhetoric and support, struggled to achieve much. So, I do not have cnonfidence that somehow Trump, who will have very little support in the congress will be able to affect any change. 

Actually, perhaps having a Trump Presidency will inspire some actual legislative compromise and unity. Perhaps a Trump Presidency will get Congress and the Supreme Court off their arses and start devolving power from the presidency. "What, you want to go to war with No-where-astan? Well, the new congress asserts you can't deploy any troops without our approval first." or "Yeah, the whole spying on US citizens and political opponents is an out-dated Trumpianism, so we decided to revoke such powers and rule that congress needs to give explicit authority to do that rather than executive powers single-handedly asserting they have the power." 

Do I think Trump will be a bad president? Yes. Do I think a Trump presidency will be the end of the US? No. Not by a long shot. This kind of campaign rhetoric is akin to why the "remain" camp in the UK was called "project fear". And it is amazing how, when spoken down to over and over with a message of fear, the electorate will start to see the speakers as simple partisan hacks who are not to be trusted no matter how well intentioned they are. 

--

As to the First Lady case: who cares? Seriously, it is a first lady's speech. It isn't like Ms. Trump wrote the speech or likely had ever heard First Lady Michelle's speech, she just delivered a generic "We work hard to instill values" speech. I like a good speech as next as the next person, but I would have never remembered that Fist Lady Michelle gave such a generic speech. This is just petty partisan bickering to me. 

 

 

Soar. 

[megaplayboy]

On a side note, looks like Fox News president and Jabba the Hutt impersonator Roger Ailes is a goner. 40 million dollar exit package, told to resign by August 1st or be fired.

[薔薇語]

I often hear cries from people on the net that far too many right wingers, anti-feminist, sexist, bigots use physical looks as a legitimate criticism against people they disagree with. More exaggerated versions of "don't listen to her. She is just a fat cow!" People rightfully point out how meaningless and unhelpful such comments are. 

The head of Fox News has been accused of a laundry list of inappropriate and likely illegal sexual acts against many women over his career. The execs at FOX have given him a single chance to walk away from the company or be fired. He might also be facing real legal consequences for the acts he is accused of. 

Soar. 

[megaplayboy]

I often hear cries from people on the net that far too many right wingers, anti-feminist, sexist, bigots use physical looks a legitimate criticism against people they disagree with. More exaggerated versions of "don't listen to her. She is just a fat cow!" People rightfully point out how meaningless and unhelpful such comments are. 

 

The head of Fox News has been accused of a laundry list of inappropriate and likely illegal sexual acts against many women over his career. The execs at FOX have given him a single chance to walk away from the company or be fired. He might also be facing real legal consequences for the acts he is accused of. 

 

Soar.

I nominally agree with you, with two caveats. First, this is a man accused of evaluating his female employees based upon their superficial appearance, and he reportedly fat-shamed Gretchen Carlson at some point. Second, Jabba the Hutt has two qualities--first, he is a huge loathsome and disgusting slug, and second his physical appearance is unappealing. So when I refer to Ailes as Jabba the Hutt, at some level it's more than a gratuitous swipe at his appearance. It's turning the tables on him and also referring to his character defects more than his outward self. YMMV. I don't feel too bad about this one.

[薔薇語]

That sounds like post-facto rationlization. We needn't qualify our own virtues as being circumstantial. To Melania a quote "Be the change you want to see". 

 

Soar. 

[megaplayboy]

Well, fine, I'll just refer to him as "loathsome scumbag Roger Ailes".

[薔薇語]

See, doesn't that version just make you feel better down at your core. ^^

 

Soar. 

[Old Man]

 Roger Ailes is a goner. 40 million dollar exit package

 

  Won't someone think of the loathsome scumbags?

[Lord Liaden]

That $40,000,000.00 exit package for a guy essentially being fired for reprehensible conduct, reinforces my confidence in the basic unfairness of the universe.

[Marcus Impudite]

Summing up my views on this year's election:

[薔薇語]

Instead of voting against someone this election cycle, maybe we could all choose to vote "for" someone. Seems like a novel idea but I think it has real potential. I personally am voting "for" Gov. Gary Johnson. More than the other Libertarian Candidates I have seen, I really align with him on the vast majority of issues. He is a centrist Libertarian who believes in change but managed change. A "give less a chance" rather than a "All or nothing" person. And unlike some other ones, (Rep. Barr comes to mind), he is actually fairly liberal on some issues rather than just conservative light. 

Even if you are not a particular fan of Gov. Gary Johnson but are a fan of more open debates and having a larger diversity of voices, I would recommend claiming that you will vote for Gov. Gary Johnson if you are ever questioned by a pollster. He is almost in the teens in public polling and if he can hit a 15% poll result, he will have a strong case for demanding to be on stage with Sec. Clinton and Trump. 

 

Soar. 

[megaplayboy]

AIUI, candidates have to hit 15% in 5 or 6 polls in order to be included in the debates. The first one is September 12th. That doesn't give a lot of time to get his numbers up. Gonna take some advertising and tv appearances and campaign stops.

[薔薇語]

He has gone from being in the low single digits a few months ago to 10-12% in several polls. And yes, as I understand it, it is an average of several different polls that is required. But making up a 3-4 percent is about on pace with what he has done so far. This is also amazing compared to his last run in 2012 where he achieved a far smaller percentage leading up to the vote and post vote of less than 1 percent nationwide. 

Plus, I think a fairly strong case can be made that the governing body will have to allow him in if he is actually hitting 15% in any national polls. The optics of denying a platform to someone who is hitting 15% in a poll will be terrible. It will likely draw people into asking Sec. Clinton and Trump about their views on it which will be a very hard soundbite to sell. Indeed, it might become a political tool of either of them. Sec. Clinton is still struggling in some states and might see Gov. Johnson as a way of draining conservative and conservative leaning independents away from Trump. And Trump might see him as a way of bring a wedge between the disaffected Libs and Sec. Clinton in the Anti-trump movement.

Soar.