New Series--The Orville

[Cassandra]

I laughed during the second episode.  The bit about "The people at the next table complained" was funny, and so was "Woof".

[zslane]

The second episode wasn't bad. The show really needs to find its groove though. Some of the acting is a little stilted (I'm looking at you, Halston Sage), and some of the characters feel more like they stepped off the set of a remake of Quark, but I still see a lot of potential.

[Cassandra]

Maybe this is Quark: The Next Generation

[mattingly]

Well, as long as they're faithful to the Source.

[Hermit]

Hmmm, went to watch the second episode and apparently it consisted mostly of the 4th quarter of the Denver vs Dallas football game, which had a delay. I don't see anywhere it is being repeated for now either. Anyone else have this problem? Did I give up to soon on my recording? The game said 12+ minutes left, and since I only recorded an hour, I figured wasn't worth it.

 

I had the same problem.

 

But we have a Hulu account so got to see it anyway.

[slikmar]

I had the same problem.

 

But we have a Hulu account so got to see it anyway.

looks like they are repeating tuesday night at 9pm.

 

Sadly, I can't do almost any of the online ones. I use my friends account to do the marvel netflix ones. I live in the middle of nowhere and so use Hughes net, but that limits me to 20gb + 50gb between 2am and 8am each month. If I tried to do any HD shows, that eats it very quickly. As it is, between everything, I barely keep ahead each month.

[Hermit]

As to the second episode itself, I'm rather liking the cast of characters they've got set up. And the focus on our young rookie of the crew was well done I thought. I won't go into more details until others have had a chance to see it.

[zslane]

For a while I kept wondering if I was watching a take on the Kubiyashi Maru scenario. After all, Lieutenant Alara Kitan is clearly meant to be an analog of Lieutenant (JG) Saavik.

[Ternaugh]

That's what I was picturing, but with more tequila.

[Old Man]

Finally watched the pilot last night.  I liked it.  It has the tone of GQ or the lighter TOS episodes.  Not as good as either, but given the constant whinging I hear from people supposedly tired of grimdark, you'd think we should give this one a chance.

[Jagged]

Having watched episode 2 I cannot accept that this is a Startrek parody. Yes there are jokes but they are more sitcom than sci-fi.

 

Its just Startrek with a little mild humour. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I am still rating it as slightly better than TNG.

[zslane]

I don't believe anyone who was involved with the production, nor anyone who has actually watched the show, has ever referred to it as a Star Trek parody. Mostly I think that label got applied by people who only saw the commercial teasers and who don't really know what parody is. Basically, your expectations were falsely set by the quick-to-judge and the ignorant.

[Pattern Ghost]

Legal definition of parody, from some random online legal dictionary:

 

 

A form of speech protected by the First Amendment as a "distorted imitation" of an original work for the purpose of commenting on it.

 

That's just a very general definition. But it's one the show has met several times per episode.

 

Parody as a fair use exemption is a bit more complicated, but the commercial nature of the work along with its timing putting it in competition with the original IP may make the question of whether it's a parody a moot point. I think if they run afoul of Paramount it will be in that fourth standard if Paramount views it as direct competition for their market.

 

From Columbia University:

 

 

• Factor 1: The Purpose and Character of the Use

• Factor 2: The Nature of the Copyrighted Work

• Factor 3: The Amount or Substantiality of the Portion Used

• Factor 4: The Effect of the Use on the Potential Market for or Value of the Work

 

Since there hasn't been any news of a lawsuit, I'm going to assume that they've ticked enough of those four checkboxes to satisfy Paramount's lawyers. Parody certainly factors into the first one.

 

While I wouldn't say the intent of the show is to be a parody, it seems like they're adding just enough parody elements into their lighter version of ST to skirt copyright law. I think it may be part of the problem with the overall tone of the show being inconsistent. Much of the humor in general seems to be tacked on.

[zslane]

While I wouldn't say the intent of the show is to be a parody...

 

This is the key as far as I'm concerned. It isn't attempting to be a parody of Star Trek, therefore it isn't a parody of Star Trek. At most it is trying to be a wry, light-hearted homage. After all, it isn't making fun of Trek, but toying with the tropes it made popular. The reasons why Paramount's lawyers haven't blocked production of the show have absolutely nothing whatever to do with how likely a court would declare it "parody".

[Pattern Ghost]

This is the key as far as I'm concerned. It isn't attempting to be a parody of Star Trek, therefore it isn't a parody of Star Trek. At most it is trying to be a wry, light-hearted homage. After all, it isn't making fun of Trek, but toying with the tropes it made popular. The reasons why Paramount's lawyers haven't blocked production of the show have absolutely nothing whatever to do with how likely a court would declare it "parody".

 

The cast has stressed that it's a loving homage rather than a parody in several interviews. I had an article quoting some of those that I was going to link, but lost the tab.

 

I couldn't find anything about Paramount's view on the show, have you? As far as I can tell, it seems to be a non-issue.

 

All that aside, I don't  see why a parody can't be a homage. It seems like people are assuming a parody has to be an attack on the original. The Orville's take seems to be in finding humor in how average people would react to a lot of the Trek standbys, like the holo deck, the replicator, etc. That's commentary, but not necessarily mean-spirited. No reason the show can't be both, although the mix does lean more heavily toward homage than parody, making the humor (both parody and non-parody driven) seem awkward.

 

I think the main problem with the show is tonal: MacFarlane doesn't seem to be capable of doing subtle, story-driven humor.

[zslane]

Yeah, it seems to be a legal non-issue, but not (necessarily) because it qualifies for protection under the legal definition of parody. It's because there's nothing infringing about the show.

 

You're right, there's no reason why a parody can't incidentally be kind of an homage. But homages aren't parodies. That's why we have different words for them.

 

It sort of seems like MacFarlane is feeling his creative oats here a bit. It's true that he isn't known for subtle, story-driven humor, and this may be his attempt to stretch out in that direction. It will take time for him to find his footing, I think. But if he is sincere, I think he can (eventually) succeed. The question is whether or not the television audience will stick around long enough to see the show get there.

[Pattern Ghost]

I'm kind of hoping the same thing, that the show will find its groove. I'm not too confident in MacFarlane to get there, but think his intent is good.

[zslane]

I have a good bit of confidence because of the Ted movies. Sure, they have their moments of crude and crass humor, but underneath all that the movies actually have a lot of heart.

[DShomshak]

The second episode wasn't bad. The show really needs to find its groove though. Some of the acting is a little stilted (I'm looking at you, Halston Sage), and some of the characters feel more like they stepped off the set of a remake of Quark, but I still see a lot of potential.

Someone else remembers Quark? Woot!

 

I really should look Quark up again (surely it must be on DVD by now) and see if it was really as funny as I thought when it was new and so was I.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lucius]

I remember Quark.

 

"I have just had a philosophical debate on the nature of love with a plant - and lost."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Discussing the nature of plants with a palindromedary

[DShomshak]

I liked the second episode quite a lot more than the first. There was some character development -- not great or subtle character development, but that takes time. There was also some drama, pushing the show above action-adventure according to the Gerrold Criterion. (To paraphrase David Gerrold, in one of his ST reminiscences: Action-adventure is, "Kirk must solve a problem." Drama is, "Kirk must make a decision.") Not great drama, either -- the crew is a little too immediately enthusiastic about disobeying a direct order from a fleet admiral, and charging into a course of action that can get them all killed -- but again, it's a promissory note that McFarlane can do more than potty humor and adolescent snark.

 

We shall see.

 

(Oh, and yeah, at least it's not hitting us in the face with, "Look, there's a Big Grimdark Conspiracy!" So tired of that.)

 

(And mild props to McFarlane for playing someone whose funniest feature is that he's bad at trying to be funny. I will assume that's deliberate.)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Pattern Ghost]

I have a good bit of confidence because of the Ted movies. Sure, they have their moments of crude and crass humor, but underneath all that the movies actually have a lot of heart.

 

It's not the heart that concerns me so much as the execution. I like humor that arises from the story or characters naturally more than I do a bunch of one liners strung together. I've only seen him execute the latter on Family Guy. I'm not familiar with Ted, so can't comment there.

[zslane]

There was some character development -- not great or subtle character development, but that takes time.

 

Very true. Significant character development needs to occur over the course of an entire season, not a single episode, otherwise it feels rushed and unauthentic. Lt. Kitan gained some self-confidence, which shows a bit of development I suppose. But since this show isn't a serious drama, I'm not expecting much in the way of character development as the series goes on anyway.

[Ranxerox]

The Orville answers the question what would Star Trek have been like if it were sitcom.  I had been hoping that it would be an action/adventure show that had some jokes, but episode 2 made it clear that was not to be.  Security Officer Alara Kitan saves the day not exciting action or a realistic solution, but instead by supplying a punchline.  That is a sitcom way of handling problems, not a action/adventure show solution.

 

So, is there anything wrong with this?  Well, if you like sitcoms, nothing at all.  However, as someone who doesn't like sitcoms much, I will be sitting this one out.

[zslane]

Yeah, the show's tone and overall approach to solving the dramatic problem(s) of each episode have definite sitcom roots. Nevertheless, I doubt very much MacFarlane believes he's making a sitcom. He would point to its hour-long format as the first clue that it isn't a sitcom.