New Series--The Orville

[Cassandra]

This latest episode was going along rather smoothly until:

 

 

...the whole thing relied on a time travel trope that didn't even make sense. Pria's future (where the Orville is destroyed) is irrelevant to anyone else whose future isn't determined until things, you know, actually happen. By successfully navigating through the cough dark matter bubble storm giggle for them, Pria only messed up her own future (or rather, her memories of it), not the Orville's. Hopefully this will be the last time this show uses time travel to tell a story, because they will inevitably fail every time.

 

 

I see that Jonantha Frakes have made his choice between The Orville and Star Trek: Discovery.

 

I'm surprised Seth didn't write this episode with him ending up in bed with Charlize Theron.

[sinanju]

The Orville is clearly fantasy with a science fiction coating. Dark Matter storm. Yeah. And axion particles. Uh huh. Plus, for bonus points, a time travel story that made absolutely no sense. But no worse than many a Trek episode. Plus, why is the helmsman surrendering control of the ship to Pria? In the pilot we were told he was a hot **** pilot par excellence. Now he's all "this is above my pay grade" about dodging some giant bubbles?

 

That said, I'm still watching. Gene Roddenberry once said that westerns (which were much more popular on tv at the time than they are now) were not about authentic 1870s characters, but about characters with the same values and traits of contemporary viewers. Which is correct. Just like the crew of the TOS Enterprise didn't act like people from two hundred years in the future--they were basically contemporary humans from the 1960s.

 

THAT'S where the jokes are in The Orville. It's people like us--or, at least, people like Seth MacFarlane--plopped into a Trek-style universe. They make the same stupid jokes people now would make. They watch the movies and tv shows we would recognize, even if they call them oldies. It was more jarring at first because you don't expect that from characters in a Star Trek show, but this _isn't_ Star Trek. It's an homage, certainly, but with less refined and genteel characters.

 

Plus, we learned something about the Orville universe in this most recent episode.

Their medical tech is good enough that a) the robot could amputate the guy's leg and heal it completely in the space of one night, and the doctor could regenerate it in only hours.

The Orville can travel 10 light-years per hour, and that's considered fast.

The Union apparently is well aware that time travel is at least theoretically possible, since they have a policy of not messing with the timeline.

[dmjalund]

I think our time traveller was telling porkies.

 

(she was lying)

 

I think the Orville was never going to encounter that Dark Matter storm, until she arranged for it to be in that particular sector.

[Pattern Ghost]

I think our time traveller was telling porkies.

 

(she was lying)

 

I think the Orville was never going to encounter that Dark Matter storm, until she arranged for it to be in that particular sector.

 

Seems like a good enough explanation of the ending to qualify for a No Prize.

[Armory]

I'm digging the No-Prize reference!  I actually "won" one of those, back in the day.  I received a very colorful envelope (Hulk was on it, IIRC) with nothing in it.

 

It's not like the other Trek series didn't engage in techno-babble and play fast and loose with science, so the 'dark matter storm' didn't bother me much.  But time travel stories are difficult to pull off and Seth didn't quite get it right.

 

I find myself like this show so far.  It's earnest, and reverential of the source material... errr, inspirational material... while giving it a goose here and there at the same time.

[DShomshak]

Yeah, time travel stories tend to explode if you look at them too hard.

 

I will say this for The Orville: These characters are all good people. Flawed, sure, but decent. There's no one I really dislike (though the blob is pushing it).

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hermit]

Okay, I am a very very bad person. I knew it was a mistake to tell Isaac to do a practical joke...

and when it happened, I laughed.

 

It was WRONG , I know but damn if that didn't just hit the "I'm going to hell for laughing at this and I'm not sure I care right now" button.

 

I agree this had a lot of plot holes in it with the time travel.

 

BUt, what I do find interesting is Mercer responded to it.

 

not even a moment of "We have to die so a future may live" thinking

 

And as a Captain I think he made the right call. Mercer is not a GREAT Captain like what we often see on Star Trek. That said he is a GOOD Captain and when push comes to shove he puts his crew first.

 

I'm liking the guy.  And I think I'd be happy to serve under him.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, time travel stories tend to explode if you look at them too hard.

 

I will say this for The Orville: These characters are all good people. Flawed, sure, but decent. There's no one I really dislike (though the blob is pushing it).

 

Dean Shomshak

 

This exactly this. 

 

Seth has done a good job of grabbing onto the Roddenberry theme of "We're going to make it " and added "yes even the C listers"

[Hermit]

Latest Episode...

thoughts?

[zslane]

The whole second act felt like I was watching Abbott and Costello Meet the Krill. It was a real chore to get to the more thought-provoking ending.

 

Other thoughts:

 

1. Lt. Kitan really needs to find other Syleans (sp?) to date.

2. The homage-like devotion to 90s alien design (for the Krill and the Maclin, for instance) is still distracting to me.

3. How was Mercer and the other guy able to understand and speak Krill?

[Cassandra]

The whole second act felt like I was watching Abbott and Costello Meet the Krill. It was a real chore to get to the more thought-provoking ending.

 

Other thoughts:

 

1. Lt. Kitan really needs to find other Syleans (sp?) to date.

2. The homage-like devotion to 90s alien design (for the Krill and the Maclin, for instance) is still distracting to me.

3. How was Mercer and the other guy able to understand and speak Krill?

 

Answers

 

1. There might not be that many in the fleet.

2. They have to walk the fine line between making aliens and blatantly ripping off Star Trek.

3. Universal Translator or everyone speaks English.

[wcw43921]

For the record, I'm rather fond of time travel stories, myself.  In fact, I had an idea for an episode where Kelly is thrown back in time to 1950s Los Angeles, where she meets an LAPD officer who aspires to work in television.  They hit it off really well, and he takes her to a movie--Forbidden Planet.  She says afterward that there need to be women and aliens on starships like the C-57D, and he tells her that if he ever makes a TV show like Forbidden Planet that there will be aliens--and a woman will be the First Officer.

 

That's not too schmaltzy, is it?

[wcw43921]

The whole second act felt like I was watching Abbott and Costello Meet the Krill. It was a real chore to get to the more thought-provoking ending.

 

Other thoughts:

 

1. Lt. Kitan really needs to find other Syleans (sp?) to date.

2. The homage-like devotion to 90s alien design (for the Krill and the Maclin, for instance) is still distracting to me.

3. How was Mercer and the other guy able to understand and speak Krill?

 

 

Answers

 

1. There might not be that many in the fleet.

2. They have to walk the fine line between making aliens and blatantly ripping off Star Trek.

3. Universal Translator or everyone speaks English.

 

1. Correct. They talked about that in the first episode--there are so few Syleans that they fast-track the one that are in the Fleet, which is why someone as young as she held a Senior Officer position.

 

2. I suspect the latter point is why they don't have Transporters matter transmission technology.

 

3. My money's on the former, but I do think a scene with Mercer and Malloy practicing their Krill language skills would have been both nifty and hilarious.

 

I found the moral dilemma aspect of the episode quite interesting--reminds me of the sort of scenarios Gamemasters like to present to Lawful Good PCs, especially Paladins.  And not only did Mercer and Malloy surpass the mission objectives, they exceeded the expectations of Fleet Command.  The crew of the Orville can expect to get a really, really tough assignment in the future.

[zslane]

Yeah, I figured the number of Syleans was very low. Well, the Orville has a Holodeck, so there are technological answers to some of her, um, dating issues.

 

Which brings me to the lack of transporter technology. As I recall in Star Trek, transporters used the same technology as replicators (and later, the Holodeck). The Orville has two of these devices on board; it makes no sense (within the diagesis) that they don't have the third as well.

[Starlord]

If you have a holodeck so perfectly done, why can't you have matter conversion technology?

 

In Star Trek, they were actually able to eat and drink on the holodeck, presumably because of matter replication.

 

Also if you don't have replication (and thus no matter conversion), then you are relying on a certain amount of supplies (like ST - Enterprise)...thus no long voyages...etc, etc.

[wcw43921]

They may trust the technology to create realistic interactive images, and they may trust it to create food and even recreational pharmaceuticals--but they may not trust it enough to let themselves be destroyed and then recreated somewhere else.

 

And they may have good reason.

 

It's my understanding that matter transmission is possible within the laws of physics--the subject is reduced to its "quantum information" and that then is transmitted to its destination, where it is used to recreate the subject.  (Apologies for the oversimplification--I'm remembering an article I read in Popular Mechanics many years ago.) That may work with physical matter--but what happens to the mind?  What happens to the soul?  Can such essential intangibles be translated into quantum information?

 

Perhaps that's what happened with the early experiments with the technology--people came back mindless, and eventually died because their minds couldn't be recovered.  Or they came back without their souls, and couldn't feel joy or empathy anymore.  (If you wanted to joke about it, you could say they became politicians or TV network executives--but I'm thinking losing your soul is nothing to joke about.)

 

Just my thoughts on the subject--take them as you will.

[zslane]

I think the one element that sweeps away such analysis is that this show is a devoted tribute to Star Trek where there are no such concerns. I would expect none on The Orville either.

[Grailknight]

There were plenty of concerns on TOS about the use of transporters. The technology was just being perfected and people were lost in transporter accidents. By the time of TNG, it was more reliable and  only then were the holodecks put in service.

[Pattern Ghost]

Yeah, they were pretty safe during TNG era. Just ask William Riker.

 

 

 

And if you want a second opinion, ask Thomas Riker.

 

 

[zslane]

There were plenty of concerns on TOS about the use of transporters. The technology was just being perfected and people were lost in transporter accidents. By the time of TNG, it was more reliable and  only then were the holodecks put in service.

 

Perhaps, but their idiosyncrasies didn't prevent TOS-era Starfleet from making transporters the primary short-distance deployment technology on most vessels.

[Ternaugh]

Yeah, they were pretty safe during TNG era. Just ask William Riker.

 

 

 

And if you want a second opinion, ask Thomas Riker.

 

 

 

I'd recommend folks to find the Outer Limits episode (or the original short story by James Patrick Kelly), "Think Like a Dinosaur", to understand the full ramifications of events like this.

 

A highly touted recent SF book on the same subject would be The Punch Escrow, though I've been unable to finish that book myself (it's written like a movie treatment*, and telegraphs its big reveals like most modern, spoilery movie trailers).

 

 

 

*Movie rights have apparently already been sold.

[Pattern Ghost]

Yeah, that story was outstanding . .. and disturbing.

[Jagged]

Just because you have replicator technology doesn't mean you can teleport. You might be able to make pretty good backups of your Bridge Staff if any of them get killed.

 

Which would make for a fun Orville story now that I think about it ;-)

[zslane]

Just because you have replicator technology doesn't mean you can teleport. 

 

It does in the Star Trek universe, and this show is a devoted homage to Star Trek. Given all the other similarities (including replicator technology), the lack of transporters makes little sense to the average viewer (who is probably a ST fan).

[Spence]

I think the one element that sweeps away such analysis is that this show is a devoted tribute to Star Trek where there are no such concerns. I would expect none on The Orville either.

 

The appeal is beginning to wear off for me.  I mean I really want to watch a light hearted science fiction show.  But I am just not interested in yet another "hey let's all be social engineers and beat people over the heads with our opinions" show.  And Orville seems to think they need to add social commentary to every single show as a central theme.    Even Trek realized that people wanted fun entertainment first and would accept the occasional social comment every few episodes as ling as it wasn't a constant drum beat. 

 

I'll probably watch a few more episodes to give it a chance, but if they continue social commentary over entertainment I will most likely drop it.

[zslane]

Spence, I think we're old enough to "get the message" without shows like The Orville needing to feed it to us on a weekly basis. However, there is a whole generation of viewers who are only now beginning to wrap their brains around social issues, and sometimes the only way to get new ideas past their indifference or their biases is to sneak it in the way Trek did. But you're right about one thing: if the show can't find a way to be entertaining to those of us who don't need the lecture, then it will lose us as viewers.