GM Goof-ups

[Tech]

This is for you GMs to tell some of your mistakes made before or during a Champions game.

 

1) I've written up a clever episode where the heroes eventually run into some robots to fight. It shouldn't be easy but not too powerful that they'll lose. Yes, everything looks good... except I forgot to stat out the robots!

 

2) The game is going well, the heroes are beginning to get near to the mastermind's base and the players are really looking to stomp some goodness into the baddy except... the stat sheets for the minions AND the villain simply can't be found. "I had them a minute ago!"

 

3) The heroes encounter an impressive villain for the first time and when I read out his speech, it goes flat. (thinking to self, "It sounded better on paper.")

[Sketchpad]

Got psyched to run Target Hero back in the day. Read through the module, made notes to modify the characters... then lent the book out to a friend. Who told the group and shared the notes. And never gave me back the book until AFTER the session. 

[Tjack]

6 minutes ago, Sketchpad said:

Got psyched to run Target Hero back in the day. Read through the module, made notes to modify the characters... then lent the book out to a friend. Who told the group and shared the notes. And never gave me back the book until AFTER the session. 

     “a friend”?????  You have an interesting definition of that word.

[Sketchpad]

29 minutes ago, Tjack said:

     “a friend”?????  You have an interesting definition of that word.

 

Well, he was a friend at the time. 

[Scott Ruggels]

4 minutes ago, Sketchpad said:

 

Well, he was a friend at the time. 

Operative word is "was"...

[BoloOfEarth]

I ran the heroes against Genocide (back in 4E days), using the characters from the Mutant File basically as-is.  One of the heroes had Absorption, and I didn't realize his defenses were based completely on his Absorption.  So one of the Genocide Pawns drained the hero's Absorption, and the Pawn with the minigun attacked that hero.  Accidentally killed him in one Phase.

[Scott Ruggels]

Killed a beloved NPC to demonstrate a villains trap. Players objected, then quit. End of campaign. 

[Mr. R]

38 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Killed a beloved NPC to demonstrate a villains trap. Players objected, then quit. End of campaign. 

 

I can see how this would REALLY backfire.  This is just one step off from Girl in a Fridge type scenario

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Mr. R said:

 

I can see how this would REALLY backfire.  This is just one step off from Girl in a Fridge type scenario

 My notes from the incident:

 

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Killed a beloved NPC to demonstrate a villains trap. Players objected, then quit. End of campaign. 

    You let that kill the campaign?   Wow, you really stick to your guns.  I would have either retconned the whole thing, “It was an evil hallucination, it never happened!”  Or figured a way to bring him back, either as a friendly ghost (Casper!) or maybe as a guide sent from a higher plane of existence to help the players.

   Anything to keep the game going.

[Christopher R Taylor]

My biggest most recent one was an online game over Maptools I think, and skype.  This was years go, before Skype got bought.

 

I had the map all perfectly laid out, with the monsters on it.  But I'd forgotten that they were all marked as hidden, except for a couple because I was working on masking and shadowing, etc.  So the rogue type character sneaks out to spy out the goblin camp and spots five of them.  I didn't pay much attention because I was working on the tools to get stuff set up right so the party goes "five goblins, we can trash them!"  And attacked.

Except there were like fifteen, some of them in igloos, others that should have been in plain sight.  They still talk about that, five goblins.  The PCs won but :/  What's the point of having visual maps if you hide the details?

[Scott Ruggels]

30 minutes ago, Tjack said:

    You let that kill the campaign?   Wow, you really stick to your guns.  I would have either retconned the whole thing, “It was an evil hallucination, it never happened!”  Or figured a way to bring him back, either as a friendly ghost (Casper!) or maybe as a guide sent from a higher plane of existence to help the players.

   Anything to keep the game going.

 We discussed the use of a retcon, but, the players decided to walk. What can you do?

[Tjack]

10 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 We discussed the use of a retcon, but, the players decided to walk. What can you do?

     Shoot ‘em in the leg to keep them from getting away then chain ‘em to the table.   That’ll learn ‘em.

[Duke Bushido]

On 2/3/2022 at 3:10 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

Killed a beloved NPC to demonstrate a villains trap. Players objected, then quit. End of campaign. 

 

On 2/3/2022 at 3:50 PM, Mr. R said:

This is just one step off from Girl in a Fridge type scenario

 

I don't have the slightest idea what that means, but something about the phrasing of it makes me pretty certain that I don't even _want_ to know....   😕

 

 

 

 

On 2/3/2022 at 5:14 PM, Tjack said:

    You let that kill the campaign?   Wow, you really stick to your guns.  I would have either retconned the whole thing, “It was an evil hallucination, it never happened!”  Or figured a way to bring him back, either as a friendly ghost (Casper!) or maybe as a guide sent from a higher plane of existence to help the players.

   Anything to keep the game going.

 

 

I'm with Scott, to be honest.  Mind you, I am assuming he didn't just up and decide "oh; it's your turn in the corpse grinder...!"

 

Unless specified up-front, death is a very real, very possible thing in most of my heroic games.  No; I am absolutely not a "killer GM;"  I am not even a remotely antagonistic GM.  However, if we are playing a game with a real chance of death, and a Player does something that brings about his death, well....  He dies.

 

Same with NPCs:  I don't just start chucking them in front of bullets or anything like that, but they may, during the process of being themselves, living their lives, making completely in-character decisions, find themselves in need of a mortician.  If death is on the table for the heroes of the story, then it is most certainly on the table for the supporting cast.

 

I will warn; I will caution- I will have the voice of God booming from on high: "do you understand the risk you are taking?!  Are you really, really certain that this is what you want to do?  So you see that friend of yours doing something way more reasonable / ridiculously dangerous / downright stupid?  Are you sure?  You are committed?  You understand the possible and most likely outcomes?"

 

I will do _all_ of that as different needs arise.

 

But it is a rare, rare thing indeed for me to retcons: we have all agreed to be bound by the results of our actions and the results of the dice.  Dice are the oldest gambling tools in the world.  I suspect that is because you cannot perfectly predict them.

 

 

[Sketchpad]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:52 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

Operative word is "was"...

 

Bingo!

 

4 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Killed a beloved NPC to demonstrate a villains trap. Players objected, then quit. End of campaign. 

 

Ouch! I've had a few similar "End of Game" scenarios. I think the most infamous one was when I was in high school. Ran a game for a few weeks before dealing with a player who argued with me about our fathers during a session and I ended up kicking him out of my house. Craziness.

 

2 hours ago, Tjack said:

    You let that kill the campaign?   Wow, you really stick to your guns.  I would have either retconned the whole thing, “It was an evil hallucination, it never happened!”  Or figured a way to bring him back, either as a friendly ghost (Casper!) or maybe as a guide sent from a higher plane of existence to help the players.

   Anything to keep the game going.

 

Sometimes a group just needs to end to move on to something cooler. 

 

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

I don't have the slightest idea what that means, but something about the phrasing if it makes me pretty certain that I don't even _want_ to know....   😕

 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WomenInRefrigerators

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

I don't havethe slightest idea what that means, but something about the phrasing if it makes me pretty certain that I don't even _want_ to know....   😕

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with Scott, to be honest.  Mind you, I am assuming he didn't just up and decide "oh; it's your turn in the corpse grinder...!"

 

Unless spwcified up-front, death is a very real, very possible thing in most of my heroic games.  No; I am absolutely not a "killer GM;"  I am not even a remotely antagonistic GM.  However, if we are playing a game with a real chance of death, and a Player does something that brings about his death, well....  He dies.

 

Same with NPCs:  I dont just start chucking them in front of bullets or anything like that, but they may, during the process of being themselves, livibg their lives, making completely in-character decisions, find themselves in need of a mortician.  If death is on the table for the hero3s of the story, then it is most certainly on the table for the supporting cast.

 

I will warn; I will caution- I will have the voice of God booming from on high: "do you understand the risk you are taking?!  Are you really, really certain that this is what you want to do?  So you see that friend of yours doing something way more reasonable / ridiculously dangerous / downright stupid?  Are you sure?  You are committed?  You underatand the possible and most likely outcomes?"

 

I will do _all_ of that as different needs arise.

 

But it is a rare, rare thing indeed for me to retcons: we have all agreed to be bound by the resukts of our actions and the results of the dice.  Dice are the oldest gambling tools in the world.  I suspect that is b3cause you cannot perfectly predict them.

 

 

   I can see your point although I may not always agree with it.  But that’s in reference to PC’s, under a players control who refused to take a hint from the GM.  What happened there was to an NPC under your control, and you have to admit in retrospect that if it killed the campaign it might not have been a good idea.

 

BTW;  “girl in a fridge” refers to an issue of Green Lantern where Kyle Rayner found the dead body of his girlfriend stuffed into his refrigerator by a serial killer. It has come to refer to graphic violence (often to women) meant only to shock the readers and done in in a way that puts it beyond the line of good taste especially in comics targeted at younger readers.

[Duke Bushido]

The last out-of-combat NPC death in my sci-fi campaign:

 

The Players have been hired to provide security for a cargo.   Not a bad job, as they get paid for time spent doing nothing but getting a free starship ride.  All the problems are believed to be on the destination planet: they will land on a small continent that is in the middle of a brush war, local natives against alien settlers  (three hundred years ago, the original treaty said "we don't want this area; we are happy with this small zone you gave us."  Then radioactives were discovered on this nearby continent.....)

 

Today, settlers and corporations have pushed into this continent to "negotiate mining contracts" (akin to how lumber contracts are being negotiated in the Amazon region).  Corporate supply ships are targeted semi-regularly sitting in dock at the port, so the corporation has taken to hiring contract merchants to bring in really important stuff-- preferably ships and crews who are already known to the locals.  The PCs are hired by the corporation to provide security for one such ship, which is carrying clandestine mining equipment (inspectors have already been paid to not notice).

 

Short version:

 

The clock starts running at touchdown.  By the end of the first day, all the contacts have been made.  By the end of the second day, arrangements to unload and convoy the materials are made.  By the end of the second day, one of the paid-off inspectors has made contact with his people: he is a sympathizer to the natives.  Ironically, he would have rubber-stamped the ship and cargo simply because he knew them and had dealt with them for years.  Being asked and paid to rubber stamp this particular ship and cargo made him curious.  He knows it's mining equipment and starts making calls.  

 

On the third day, the material will start being moved off of the ship in small batches, starting at about mid-day.  This all hinges on the PCs foiling a plot to blow up the ship at mid-morning.  Dock hands and other workers mill about constantly.  Two guerrilla fighters have managed to plant shaped charges at key points on the ship and even inside (especially anywhere that will damage the cargo, but the destruction of the ship is a sought-after prize: this ship is working with the corporation and must be used as an example-- a warning to other independents that they don't want to truck with the corporation).

 

This was the initial plot outline for the session: discover the sabotage, small firefight, and if all went well, make a lot of money and start the next arc of the campaign.  If everything went really badly, end up on the run for smuggling and who knows what else.  It all hinged on _one_ thing: actually provide security for the cargo.

 

On Day Three, the PCs decided _to a man_ to go sightseeing.  "Well, the arrangements are made, and the cargo will be picked up this afternoon.  It's still on the ship, still in danger, but the arrangements are made, so let's find a bar and see if we can start a fight (or whatever it is that Players want to do that makes little sense in the moment and wrecks even a plot this simple).   Two NPCs (one is a crewman on the ship who put in a good word for them to get them the job; a fairly new NPC).  The other is Lieutenant Sandbag (discharged), a jack-of-all-trades NPC who has been with the party for literal _years_-- not just game years, but real-world years.  He doesn't do much, as his job is essentially to have a lesser version of whatever important skill is held by the character of the player who didn't show up that night (wish I was kidding) and to periodically be the mouthpiece of the GM  (ie, the guy who says "I don't think we should do that" or "that seems like a really, _really_ bad idea.  Can we talk about this?").

 

Lieutenant Sandbag decides to opt out of the pub crawl:  "I don't know, guys....  We were hired to provide security until the cargo was picked up and to keep the ship and crew safe until they could get off-world.  The ship is still on the ground and the cargo is still in it."

 

"Yeah, but the arrangements are made, and they'll be here today.  It's as good as gone.  I wanna check out this planet."

 

"Suppose that's just the chance somebody's waiting for?  Waiting for the guys with the guns to leave the ship so they can storm it and claim the cargo?"

 

"It's just a bunch of heavy equipment.  It's not like it's got street value!  Just calm down.  Whoever it was, we've obviously scared them off...."

 

"Just the same, I'm going to stay here.  That _is_ the job we were hired to do, and it doesn't seem real hard.  The bars will still be open when the stuff is actually off the ship, right?"

 

"Suit yourself, Sandy."

 

 

 

So while they were crawling around looking for con jobs, the ship blew up.  (Sandbag's Concealment isn't very high, his Demolitions is poor, and while he did see two guys "messing with the engines," he didn't see the third guy coming up behind him).

 

 

What is different about this plot because an NPC died?   Well, lots of NPCs died: eight in all.  Two name-brand, and one well-liked with a long history with the group.

 

The adventure started with a clock in the background.  I did not turn that clock off because the PCs decided "eh; the job's half-done.  Good enough, 'eh Boys?"

 

What in this entire script would encourage me to provide a do-over?   

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

What in this entire script would encourage me to provide a do-over?   

 

 

 Um... Nothing at all.   Though, were your results campaign ending?

Classic Traveller scenario, though, but they players had no investment in the ship. it wasn't theirs, and in that situation. If it had been, they tend to treat it like a b rand new Porsche, that hasn't been paid off.

[Echo3Niner]

Over in my "game log" post, I detail how I used the wrong gladiators in the wrong order for the two gladiatorial games I put the players through...  Most recent mistake; not terrible, the players didn't know, until I told them later, and didn't really care - still worked out for the story.

 

But my worst moment wasn't in Champions - it was a Shadowrun game...  And a "TPK" (Total Party Kill - well almost)

 

So, groups been playing all night, and it's like 5AM, everyone is totally wiped...  They've been chasing a group of bad guys, and after the bad guys split up, they end up following a female Elven Mage and a Cybered Orc Gun; they follow them into an apartment building, to an apartment...

 

The team (and me) are super tired, and no one is thinking clearly...

 

They often used monofilament whips to cut their way into places, so I have the apartment wall and doors rigged with an "electrical charge" that counter-acts monowhips so they don't work (made up on the fly, just cause I'm tired of it)...

 

The team bangs on the door and wall for a long time, trying to figure out a way in...  Finally, one of the players (of a dwarf cyber-gun named Giggler) gets a great idea; he goes to the basement of the building, and cuts the power to the whole building, then starts running up 10 flights of stairs...

 

The rest of the team, tired of waiting, tired of chasing these bad guys, and just plain old tired; decide they're going in.

 

Now, my bad guys have been waiting on these knuckleheads for like 30 minutes, so they're ready...  I'm like, "Are you sure you're just gonna bust in there?"  They're like, "Oh HELLS yea!"  I mean, I mention an electrical whirling sound; but, they totally ignore it...

 

So they open the door to the mage who has like 5 spells whipped up and waiting, and the Orc on a tripod mounted mini-gun...  Both with saved actions...

 

Everyone dies, the bad guys flee to the roof and a chopper, and the poor Dwarf player / character get's there just in time to see all his friends bleed out.

 

Players are screaming!  They're wadding up their paper character sheets and throwing them at me!  Cans of soda and pizza slices are being thrown at the trash; I mean they are PISSED!   And the dwarf player, has like for real survivor's guilt, even though I make it clear if they had waited, he'd be dead too...

 

A couple weeks later, everyone's cooled off, and we actually, eventually play a new group of characters, except for the dwarf; and the whole party is literally singularly out for revenge...

 

Turned out to be pretty fulfilling for everyone; after they got over it...

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Echo3Niner
Typo

[drunkonduty]

I've committed many over the years.

 

The most recent one was a couple of years ago, running a Pathfinder game, a Paizo AP. It's pretty high level by this point in the game. I modified one of the scenarios from whatever it was to a "hell in the jungle" type situation where the PCs would be hunted through a jungle by a high level, hit and run monster. I was going for a Predator vibe. Being high level Pathfinder it takes a lot of work: going over abilities to make sure I understand them, and then creating scenarios the monster could leverage for greater effect.

 

The PCs take one look at the dense, hot, sweaty jungle and say "We'll fly over that." Because, being high level Pathfinder, everyone had access to flight. Wings, brooms, spells, Baba Yaga's magic mortar. My face must have fallen because the players were all "Oh. Well, we can walk through it, if you like." I said "No, no. This is on me. I'm an idiot."

[archer]

42 minutes ago, drunkonduty said:

I've committed many over the years.

 

The most recent one was a couple of years ago, running a Pathfinder game, a Paizo AP. It's pretty high level by this point in the game. I modified one of the scenarios from whatever it was to a "hell in the jungle" type situation where the PCs would be hunted through a jungle by a high level, hit and run monster. I was going for a Predator vibe. Being high level Pathfinder it takes a lot of work: going over abilities to make sure I understand them, and then creating scenarios the monster could leverage for greater effect.

 

The PCs take one look at the dense, hot, sweaty jungle and say "We'll fly over that." Because, being high level Pathfinder, everyone had access to flight. Wings, brooms, spells, Baba Yaga's magic mortar. My face must have fallen because the players were all "Oh. Well, we can walk through it, if you like." I said "No, no. This is on me. I'm an idiot."

 

"You can fly over the jungle if you like. But if you want to find treasure, you'll need to walk through the jungle."

 

Is there treasure in the jungle? Probably not. But it does give them incentive to walk.  

[Duke Bushido]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:21 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

 Um... Nothing at all.   Though, were your results campaign ending?

 

 

Sort of....

 

In as much as everyone got mad, the mood dropped and stayed that way, and the game petered out within an hour.   While we met for other games, it was in the neighborhood of a year before anyone wanted to pick that one back up.  The entire time with that "well how were we supposed to know...?"  Nonsense.

 

How were you supposed to know what?  That the ship was likely in danger?  That you were hired to guard it and _walked off the job_?  That Lt. Sandbag stressed several times that the job wasn't over?  That there was a war going on, and the company you were working for was one entire side of the war?  What was it, exactly, that you needed to know that would have properly stressed "hey, you know, some really bad stuff could go down any minute?"  Or perhaps this is Ghost Rider 2, and we're playing the world's first inaction game....

 

 

 

On 2/3/2022 at 11:21 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

Classic Traveller scenario, though,

 

Excellent catch, Sir!     Yes; this is my long-running Traveller-on-Champions wheels game.

 

 

 

On 2/3/2022 at 11:21 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

but they players had no investment in the ship. it wasn't theirs, and in that situation. If it had been, they tend to treat it like a b rand new Porsche, that hasn't been paid off.

 

Yeah, but usually "hey, that ship is our honest-to-God only ride home" had worked in the past as a motivator to at least post a guard. 

 

Didn't that time, though. 

 

 

 

On 2/4/2022 at 4:54 PM, drunkonduty said:

I've committed many over the years.

 

 

 

I just wanted to say thank you for that.  The way, in my head, that this comment was stated was hilarious.   

 

I have had very, _very_ few TPKs, but I would like to share my favorite (though I really think that I have shared this before, many years ago).

 

It's a space opera game (Yes; Sci-Fi is my genre of preference.   Specifically, not Star Wars sci-fi).  One of the party members had managed several sessions ago to get his hands on a Phase Field generator.  This experimental Force Field generator is a body-worn protective device that, when activated, creates a phase field "bubble" of protection.  Anything-- physical or energy-- is phased and randomly expelled from some other part of the surface.  To skip the rubber science, it's essentially Missile Deflection, Area of Effect (could be cranked to a 10 meter radius) costs END, and a couple of other things that are not important for this story.

 

We had two Johns in this group with the unique distinction of being identical cousins.  That is their fathers were identical twins who, against the odds, married identical twins.   I won't pretend to be a scientist, but given what I did learn while going through my medical education, they are, genetically speaking, siblings. (purely genetic, mind you).  They are both named for their grandfather  (and they were just almost two years apart, and because of that, I find it a bit hard to forgive doing that to your kid, but that's neither here nor there).  They were strikingly similar in appearance, though technically there was no reason for that, as neither favored one parent more than the other.  Conversationally, we referred to them as "Old John" and "Young John" (or Little John), mostly because Straight John hated being called Straight John (Gay John did not mind being called Gay John, but Straight John was something of a spoilsport  >:-/  )

 

Anyway, the party is making their way though the prison (they are tasked with questioning and possibly having to exterminate a prisoner.  They have opted to spring him and help him get off world, because that's who they are: they are the good guys).

 

So we have the five players and two NPCs sneaking their way toward the auxiliary command to do a couple of quick overrides and create an express exit, as their presence (but not their whereabouts) has been discovered.    As they  step out into a _wide_ and empty corridor, they see nothing, and the group pushes ahead.  As the bulkhead seals behind them, they make their way to the intersection fifty feet ahead.

 

A lone staffer from the prison pops around the corner, sees them, and stops dead in his tracks, shocked.

 

Brent announced "I shoot him before he can raise the alarm!" and fires off his hand cannon-- his straight-from-Johhny-Dangerously 88 magnum (recoilless, as Jim DiGriz would have wanted) slug thrower.  BOOM!

 

The..  uh.....  the alarm...  has been raised.....

 

The security systems guy turns to see if he can open the bulkhead for a quick retreat; Old John wants to sprint dead-ahead beyond the intersection in the hopes of getting through it before any guards appear.  

 

Sixty seconds of indecision and guards arrive-- eight of them, with full riot armor and armed with stun cannons (before there were real-world shoots-a-wire-at-you Tasers, there weren't, so we had to guess.  These were basically weapons that fired arcs of electricity at incredible voltage and very low amperage: they were non-lethal, usually, sort of).

 

Right away Amy says "I activate my force field and crank it up enough to cover everyone!  John's right; we've got to make a run for it!"

 

Young John, who has been letting his mind wander to who-knows-what hears "John" and snaps to attention-- sort of.  "Full auto, Baby!"

 

Young John's character has a plasma weapon that can be toggled to single shot, burst fire, and what he calls "Full auto."  This is a setting that, with a single button press, will set the weapon firing full auto (5 shot autofire) repeatedly, until the setting is changed again or the energy clip is spent.   "Full Auto" was something he liked to do as he seemed to think it was allowing him to take "extra attacks," no matter how many times it was explained to him that it in fact did not do that, as he couldn't really aim save on his Phase-- it was just firing.

 

 

So the Plasma rifle begins to fire, unceasingly--

 

into the inner surface of the Bubble of Missile Deflection.

 

Roll Activation.

 

Neat!  Rolled a 4!

 

Oh!  Time to roll again...

 

Neat!  Rolled a 5!

 

Wow!  A 3!

 

It was grim, and it was hilarious.

 

Many dice where thrown that evening, most of them at Young John.

 

 

 

[drunkonduty]

10 hours ago, archer said:

 

"You can fly over the jungle if you like. But if you want to find treasure, you'll need to walk through the jungle."

 

Is there treasure in the jungle? Probably not. But it does give them incentive to walk.  

 

Well the Macguffin was in the jungle, but thanks to the nature of the adventure the PCs could sense where it was. They flew right there. My monster was all about hit and run tactics, it was never gonna stand up to the PCs in a fair fight. Ce le Guerre.

[Tech]

4) I create a new villain who will be a archenemy for the group. The villain is carefully created to be a match for the team. Two sessions later, I get the strong feeling the players don't like him so I quietly move away from any archenemy. On the other hand, a one-shot npc becomes loved by the players. The NPC's name? Edna Mode.    Really, I'm happy this happened and she's become a major NPC for any hero who needs a justification for supergear.

 

5) (Early GMing mistake here...)  Trying to create an atmosphere for the characters, which the players just aren't in the mood for. Bad timing.

 

6) Trying to do a serious episode on a Friday evening, when everyone's had a long day and isn't in the mood for anything serious. I remember someone saying, "I'm not in the mood for something serious. Do we have anything light-hearted?"  Instantaneous episode creation is a test of any GM... but I did it.

 

[Fry Daddy]

My funniest one --- Players fought a team of villains who had a female mentalist as a member. Later, I forgot about that and rolled the team out again with the same mentalist as a male. The group said "wait a minute -- last time that was a woman!" I disagreed and told them they were mistaken, which they completely proved me wrong with their notes. After that, anytime I threw a mentalist at them, it came up --- are you SURE this is a man/woman?

 

They got a lot of mileage out of that one.