Metaphysician Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Seven of the Champs 3K are built on 700, one is built on 750. Frankly, more slack should be given them, since all of them save one has been a hero for no more than a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Did anyone else catch the reference to a member of PSI joining the Champions? Hint: Check Mechanon's history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Caught it. So, Deuce reformed? Excellent. Pity they didn't get Lancer, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Caught it. So' date=' Deuce reformed? Excellent. Pity they didn't get Lancer, though.[/quote'] Lancer is my favorite also (my current character Psilancer is based on her) and I thought she had one of the best chances to reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Seven of the Champs 3K are built on 700' date=' one is built on 750. Frankly, more slack should be given them, since all of them save one has been a hero for no more than a year.[/quote'] You know, I never thought of it that way. 700 points is beginner's level for a cosmic game. I guess they still have some room to grow... especially compared to some of the monstrosities they're up against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Has anyone thought of switching Sovereign and Arcane as solo villain and team leader? It struck me that they might work better that way, both in motivation/personality and as appropriate level of opposition for the heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I just got it, haven't read it in detail yet... but so far... wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions John, I can understand where you're coming from, and why you and a lot of other players would prefer a "rounded" design concept for your heroes. I have to say, though, that these kinds of strength-and-weakness builds are one of the things that make this Champions team seem more like the Legion of Super-Heroes than a collection of Silver Surfer-wannabes to me. The heroes of the Legion all have their specialties, which are rather limited, but they use teamwork to maximize their strengths. In the case of the Champs 3000, Bulletproof is the damage sponge, protecting his frailer teammates from attacks; Charm distracts and harasses the enemy, making them waste Phases trying to hit her; Sage snipes at foes from a distance with his mental powers; Defender is a heavy blaster, coming in to put an opponent down fast after the others set him up. Now, I would suggest that the Champions team tactics writeups could have gone into more detail on how to use these characters as a group for maximum effectiveness. That being said, experienced players or GMs could probably figure this out for themselves, and experienced gamers are the ones most likely to be playing at this level. This is of course JMO, YMMV etc. As I said, though, since this seems reflective of a LSH approach to "cosmic" gaming, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a deliberate design decision. Put that way it makes a bit more sense, but I still don't think they are the greatest examples. I wish they'd put some solo heroes in. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Put that way it makes a bit more sense, but I still don't think they are the greatest examples. I wish they'd put some solo heroes in. John I agree that more would have been better, but I do really like the way Star-Shield is presented; and Supernova is as likely to be an ally as an enemy (and I'd much rather have him as the former). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Major Tom Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Yesss, at last, my Precious came in the mail today, yesss.... Oh... sorry about that... for a moment there, my inner Gollum had escaped to wreak havoc. Major Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I got mine today. Writing 5 out of 5 I love it. Art 3 out of 5. This might be a bit misleading, the art is very good, but I have 2 nitpicks. 1) Art re-use and 2) No pic for Arcane. That is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions My only real disappointment(aside from no Malvan Ultradreadnought writeup--sigh) was that there wasn't more material devoted to general issues involving the highest level Hero System campaigns. I'd like to suggest a new feature in Digital Hero: Megascale Hero. Basically it would have tips for running high level games, troubleshooting the kinds of problems that might pop up, writeups for high end and "plot device" type powers, and writeups for either iconic CU NPCs or for non-CU characters. I think it would be nice to see more attention paid to the potential "epic level hero" genre, if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Sounds like a good idea to me, *IF* it does not consist of tons of "How to amplify the power level without upping points" tips. I *HATE* those. Just up the points, damnit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Sounds like a good idea to me' date=' *IF* it does not consist of tons of "How to amplify the power level without upping points" tips. I *HATE* those. Just up the points, damnit!![/quote'] Here's another thought, based on yours - I actually would LIKE to see some more "how to amplify powers without upping points," but let me explain... ...a VERY common frustration in emulating the source material is how characters in one issue have incredible use of thier powers and then in some other issue (especially if in another character's book) they may lack that ability entirely, with their powers still there but toned down. Similarly, we might see a weaker character who fights street-level guys in his own book but then goes on to join the Avengers or JLA and suddenly is at least kinda close to the power levels of his cohorts and may stand 1-on-1 with an uber-villain. If we could develop a good set of guidelines for how the same number of points could be played in dramatically different ways, along with some rules or suggestions as to how and when we make those differences manifest, then we could really emulate the source material more closely and have some more interesting games, as well, I believe. I think it's a worthwhile thought, anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Frankly, I consider stuff like that the kind of thing super hero RPGing is there to eliminate. One of the best things about a RPG is it has rules, which prevent just this inconsistency from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions That's easy--guys like Spiderman or Batman don't really want to hurt thugs, so they pull their punches or even lower the number of dice they are throwing. Against higher level opponents they use everything in their bag of tricks, push their strongest attacks, and use their tactical skills to the utmost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions If it were only a matter of thugs, you'd have a point. The problem is, the inconsistency goes way beyond that; characters losing to people they ought to be perfectly capable of beating on full out without serious risk of injury. Whats more, pulling punches and lowering dice pools some shouldn't actually leave the character losing to wimpy opponents. Sure, maybe if the character is unskilled and neurotic about possibly inflicting injury, but any reasonably experienced and/or skilled character should never, ever have to do stupid stuff like drop their attacks down to 8d6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Frankly' date=' I consider stuff like that the kind of thing super hero RPGing is there to eliminate. One of the best things about a RPG is it has rules, which prevent just this inconsistency from happening.[/quote'] And one of the best things about fiction is that it allows for these inconsistencies, so long as the story is told well. And I believe there's a place in our hobby for that, if not a duty to it. So I disagree, in essence. (Steps off high horse. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions If it were only a matter of thugs' date=' you'd have a point. The problem is, the inconsistency goes way beyond that; characters losing to people they ought to be perfectly capable of beating on full out without serious risk of injury. Whats more, pulling punches and lowering dice pools some shouldn't actually leave the character losing to wimpy opponents. Sure, maybe if the character is unskilled and neurotic about possibly inflicting injury, but any reasonably experienced and/or skilled character should never, ever have to do stupid stuff like drop their attacks down to 8d6.[/quote'] well, I think one can always chalk a few incidents up to "wow, that guy rolled a critical"--there's also multi-attacker bonuses sometimes. A thug with no body armor is unlikely to have a PD above 4 or 5. Throwing more than 8d6, even with pulling, increases the risk of BODY damage. Spidey almost never breaks bones or leaves thugs a bloody mess. 6d6 is enough in most instances to stun or drop a petty criminal, and 8 or 9d6 would stun a trained human fighter most of the time. Personally, I think precision genre-modeling has its limits; writers will do what they do to make the story interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions well, I think one can always chalk a few incidents up to "wow, that guy rolled a critical"--there's also multi-attacker bonuses sometimes. A thug with no body armor is unlikely to have a PD above 4 or 5. Throwing more than 8d6, even with pulling, increases the risk of BODY damage. Spidey almost never breaks bones or leaves thugs a bloody mess. 6d6 is enough in most instances to stun or drop a petty criminal, and 8 or 9d6 would stun a trained human fighter most of the time. Personally, I think precision genre-modeling has its limits; writers will do what they do to make the story interesting. See, something like that - "rolled a critical" - so maybe a rule/suggestion for "small-time hero playing with the big boys" would be to give them a bunch of +s to rolls, for example, thouigh they have to pick and choose when they use those +s, it wouldn't be every roll, just something they'd have to employ strategically. And you could, for example, allow small-time heroes to use the Hit Locations table if that's more favorable - "Sheesh, Hawkeye hit Doctor Doom right where his eye-opening is, ouch!" That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. EDIT/PS - and Megaplayboy, to be clear, I agree with you, there are limits and I don't think that RPGs can or should 100% model heroic fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Ow. I thought Crooks was pretty average. I would suggest you look at the Algernon Files. It is a hero and villian collection for M&M (its a superlink print product) and it was written by (among others) Dave Mattingly. It is one of the best superhero supplements I have seen. Im my opinion (and a few others online over at the M&M boards) it stands head and shoulders over Crooks. And for those interested GC got a good review over at RPG.net. Oh, I manipulate everything that I use ofcource. I'll definitly give the files a gander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson-Hawk Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I've ordered Galactic Champions from FRP Games as well. Hero Games support here in Kansas City is abysmal... The Battlezone barely keeps any Hero stuff on stock (though I need to buy Reality Storm from them, since they do have that in stock). And Monty's Books & Comics had The Turakian Age (yay! FH goodness!) but little of anything else I didn't already own. And Monty's is usually very Hero friendly. So, now I sit, waiting for FRP to get my money order so they can send me Sidekick and GC. It's funny. I and my roommate were speculating yesterday which characters would survive to 3K. I posited that Mechanon and Istvatha V'han would be part of the setting, since they can "survive" till then and they fit the GC genre. I also posited that Captain Chronos, the Cateran, and Takofanes were all capable of making it to 3K, but their concepts didn't fit the GC genre too well. I was thrilled when reading this thread and the RPGNet review that I was absolutely correct on Mechanon and Istvatha V'han! (Long live Istvatha V'han!) I was only mildly surprised to find out that the Cateran at least gets a nod in the book. But I was caught completely by surprise that the Slug returns as a major player; I so wasn't thinking of that. I'm tickled that there are "new" versions of Defender and Firewing. I was half expecting a "new" Destroyer, too. But that's neither here nor there. I'm glad there isn't. I hope Takofanes was at least given a nod... it would tickle me to no end to know that there was a master villain who has existed from the "beginning" of the Hero Universe to the "end" of it and that master villain was not Dr. Destroyer. I am so looking forward to this book it's not even funny. But I need to wait at least another week and a half for the money order to get to FRP and for FRP to UPS the order out to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brionl Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Speaking of Foxbat 3000, the funniest comic book ever was Ambush Bug vs. The Legion of Substitute Heros. I just about passed out from laughing so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Personally' date=' I think precision genre-modeling has its limits; writers will do what they do to make the story interesting.[/quote'] Ain't it the truth. It's not unusual at all (in comics) for a world-class badass to get cold-cocked (or at least thrown off guard) by a Jo Normal human swinging a vase or something. And I recall several occassions when fairly serious villains ran away from a cop with a gun in the Spider-Man comics. It doesn't really make sense. You just have to flow with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Speaking of Foxbat 3000' date=' [/quote'] I don't think ANYONE spoke about Foxbat 2999 and 2/3ths (Foxbat 3000). Anyways, here is MY take on him (even thoe there is no writeup on him yet): Frank Fosgood was the CEO of Fosgood Virtual Reality Simulations. He is also the decendant of Freedy Fosworth, also know as Foxbat. Frank was always intrested in the 'lost age' from the early 20th centery to the mid 21st centery, the time of heros. One day, while inmercing himself in a simulation of the achent Champions VS Foxbat senerio #59, disaster strook. The VR helmet started to spark, and Freedy's personality profile was downloaded into Frank's brain. He recovered, but found an 'extra voice' inside his brain...that of Freedy himself. Sometimes, Frank can control himself, but other times, he puts on a repula of Foxbat's costume, and a "Ping Pong Ball Gun" made with a mini-fact inside to reuplate any ping pong weapion, and calls himself Foxbat 3000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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