Lord Liaden Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions We might have to wait for Galactic Federation to come out before we see those starships... and that might be a long wait. I know that a number of people have already expressed their disappointment about that lack. It might be possible for some GF-related items to appear in Digital Hero, though. OTOH I don't see why some of the creative technophiles on these boards couldn't write up some Spacer's Toolkit Online submissions along those lines. Perhaps with a few of those in hand Ben could be persuaded to add a new category to the STO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 GC Review There's new review of Galactic Champions up on RPGnet. IMO it's well-written, fair and informative, and generally very positive: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10459.phtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Well I have it as of yesterday. The standard of the art beside the character write ups is fair which means it is better than a couple of the last Hero Chamnpions products like Until and Sharper. But I love the Mechanon the Death Star idea. Wonderful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpira Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Well Dr. Mid-nite, you bring up some valid points. They would fit in the legion of superheroes. But, what you want with example heroes in a book, IMHO, is what a group of heroes looks like. They are supposed to be, "Hey you wanna play Galatic Champions, use these." Any GM trying to run them through an adventure would go through heck to make sure the weaker ones don't feel useless and the tougher ones are challenged. The mentalist doesn't have to be super tough, just balanced. He has 30END and his main attack takes 10! He can't take the campaign average hit without being stunned or knocked out. Even in the Legion the "less tough" members(whom are the majority) can take a hit or two from the average enemy without being Ko'd. I just think the book would have been better(and probably close to perfect) if the example characters were more balanced and the same power level. Again, just my opinion. John Spencer I did not have that much problem with it. I started thinking of scenarios with the characters as soon as I finished reading the first write up. Surprisingly the ones that really jumped out at me was Sage and Charm. A lot of potential for some really good adventures there. But 30 end is small for most super games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Um, the Champs 3K *are* the same power level: 700 points ( well, with one exception ). The fact that they have different areas of expertise does not change this fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayoman Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Wow! You would not like the current group that I am playing in. Our combats do not last more than a 1 turn, maybe 1 turn and a half. Now, mind you, that I have not been able to make the last 3 games sessions due to life and car parts that break. My guy will go down in one good hard hit. We do have a few bricks that can take some shots. They did too, at one time. I've been reading Galatic Champions and have come to one decision;. While I really like the source material and most of the villians, I HATE the hero write ups. They don't fit togeather power level wise. Defender is way too defense lite. He is a two hitter, unless he's firing, then he's a one hitter. Bulletproof is cool, but way too offense lite. One good entangle and he's out for good. Just my opinion, and as I said I like the rest of the book, just not the heroes. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Well Dr. Mid-nite, you bring up some valid points. They would fit in the legion of superheroes. But, what you want with example heroes in a book, IMHO, is what a group of heroes looks like. They are supposed to be, "Hey you wanna play Galatic Champions, use these." Any GM trying to run them through an adventure would go through heck to make sure the weaker ones don't feel useless and the tougher ones are challenged. The mentalist doesn't have to be super tough, just balanced. He has 30END and his main attack takes 10! He can't take the campaign average hit without being stunned or knocked out. Even in the Legion the "less tough" members(whom are the majority) can take a hit or two from the average enemy without being Ko'd. I just think the book would have been better(and probably close to perfect) if the example characters were more balanced and the same power level. Again, just my opinion. John Spencer Creative doses of Combat Luck and some extra Endurance solves the problem doesn't it? That takes all of a minute or two to add to the sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Creative doses of Combat Luck and some extra Endurance solves the problem doesn't it? That takes all of a minute or two to add to the sheet. But the problem is that should already be there, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions But the problem is that should already be there' date=' right?[/quote']Depends on styles doesn't it? DOJ does not design characters like I do and I have given up expecting them to do so. Some of the things they do I like and have adopted. Others, seem odd to me and I alter them. One of my deals is playability over "metagamey balance." Sometimes, it seems they just do things the hard way to do things the hard way like getting rid of regeneration so that we can eat up more ink writing up aid with a host of modifiers. And I do have a problem with the low defenses they give as standards in the Champions Universe. Apparently, they want characters to be two-hit wonders. That's easy to fix though by going with the old 4th edition standard. And there would be a hue and cry if they started designing the "non-bulletproof" with the kind of defenses I think they are due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Hooray, I finally picked up Galactic Champions! And MnM made some money, too, I finally picked up Freedom City and Crooks. There are some great characters in Crooks, I'm definitely going to make use of some in Champions. I need to get away from the home-grown characters a bit, I'm getting a bit boring in that area and need to refocus my creative muscles. I think Crooks was the best buy I have made this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Darren, I just got my copy in the mail today (Thanks, Tina!). What a fun read. Lots of good stuff in here; I like the "future history" of some of the characters. Also the rise and fall (fall and rise?) of the superhuman was well handled. Great jorb! Keith "Long Live the... Champions!" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I think Crooks was the best buy I have made this year. Ow. I thought Crooks was pretty average. I would suggest you look at the Algernon Files. It is a hero and villian collection for M&M (its a superlink print product) and it was written by (among others) Dave Mattingly. It is one of the best superhero supplements I have seen. Im my opinion (and a few others online over at the M&M boards) it stands head and shoulders over Crooks. And for those interested GC got a good review over at RPG.net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Just got the book on thursday and finally have been able to read it. Overall, I rate it an A-. My main disapointment is as usual the Champions team themselves. I like Charm, Gavis Gan and Rampart but the others seem so bland/poorly designed that the overall effect is spoiled. Defender-Power Armor character with mimimal Def and miniscule Stun. At least give the man some Stun and Rec aid drugs in the armor so he can wake up to see the second punch coming. To be fair taking the delayed phase off the VPP would fix this. Firedancer-CVK and no offense but KA's if opponent has an enhanced sense Bulletproof-No offense to speak of. Sage-Frail but that's fixable but too boring to make it worth the trouble. Thalya-Interesting character but is neither fish nor fowl. This lady need to find a sensei to teach her some martial arts. Or frequent the same gun shops that Charm does. Charm and Gavis Gan are cool concepts and interesting writeups. I can use them with minor tweaks. Starguard-Interesting take on GL Corps. The Villains Mechanon- Picking up the torch from Destroyer and Takofanes. Probalby too powerful to be used as is but definitely a threat to the Whole Galaxy. Slug and Sovreign are credible threats Arcane is as weak as you can possibly be and still have a 250pt VPP. That said he HAS A 250 PT VPP and a team of competent supers. My inner munchkin was giddy at the thought of using him but I have a hard time running my villains as incompetent and so he has to go. The Sword of Ackaal is an excellent example hero team The Solo villains are well done as a whole but shouldn't Firewing and SuperNova be up with the Master Villains. They both have the power and the scope. I love Maraud and Overrider and will use them asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Why the complaints about stuff like Bulletproof having "no" offense?? Most of those aren't flaws, those are design features. Firedancer is *supposed* to run into trouble with her CvK and her power effect. You know, like the Human Torch. Sage is *supposed* to be relatively fragile; he's team mentalist, not team front-line brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but RPGnet has a review of Galactic Champions up http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10459.phtml Looks to be chiefly positive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Why the complaints about stuff like Bulletproof having "no" offense?? Most of those aren't flaws, those are design features. Firedancer is *supposed* to run into trouble with her CvK and her power effect. You know, like the Human Torch. Sage is *supposed* to be relatively fragile; he's team mentalist, not team front-line brick. The Champions 3000 are supposed to be example heroes, usable in a pinch if you don't have time to make your own. If a group were playing them, it would be no fun for half of them in combat, while that's not the end all of an adventure, all of them end up there at some point. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJR Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions The Champions 3000 are supposed to be example heroes, usable in a pinch if you don't have time to make your own. If a group were playing them, it would be no fun for half of them in combat, while that's not the end all of an adventure, all of them end up there at some point. John I think some gms are a little too caught up on everyone doing the same damage, having the same defenses, and moving within 1 speed of each other. Character diversity is what makes the encounters interesting. If you know everyone does 12d6, has 25 defense, and a 5 speed what is the point of the conflict? To play miniature battles? The champions-3000 team have a broad range of attack damages, defenses, speeds, and stuns. They are more like a comic book team such as the Avengers rather than a game team like the champions-2000. The group I play in has attacks ranging from 8d6 to 22d6 and I assure the 8d6 player has just as much fun as the 22d6 player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I'd say the Champions 2k are hand out heroes. The Champs 3k are sourcebook material, IMO. But I haven't seen it; are they built on the same points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Hell no. The Champs 3k are built on 700 points. The original Champions, on 350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Hell no. The Champs 3k are built on 700 points. The original Champions' date=' on 350.[/quote'] Oops! I meant are all the Champions 3K built on the same 700 pts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions If they were all well-rounded, they would all be the same. I like it when a character has a hole. If they didn't, there'd be no individuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I think some gms are a little too caught up on everyone doing the same damage, having the same defenses, and moving within 1 speed of each other. Character diversity is what makes the encounters interesting. If you know everyone does 12d6, has 25 defense, and a 5 speed what is the point of the conflict? To play miniature battles? The champions-3000 team have a broad range of attack damages, defenses, speeds, and stuns. They are more like a comic book team such as the Avengers rather than a game team like the champions-2000. The group I play in has attacks ranging from 8d6 to 22d6 and I assure the 8d6 player has just as much fun as the 22d6 player. Glad to hear your players have fun despite the vast difference in attack powers, it is rare to have a group of players who will let go their ego enough for that. Even being an experienced GM I have no idea how you'd easily run them through a combat. Doesn't the 22d6 player just punk everything or the 8d6 guy get annoyed because he barely hurts anything? And before anyone brings it up, I don't think combat is the end all be all of champions, but as I said it ends up there eventually. I actually LIKE the champs 3000 from a roleplaying standpoint. I just dislike the VAST difference in power level. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I'd say the Champions 2k are hand out heroes. The Champs 3k are sourcebook material' date=' IMO. But I haven't seen it; are they built on the same points?[/quote'] Unfortunatly, IMHO, they fall short of good sourcebook material. They would barely be a challenge for most of the upper teir villians they have to face, much like the champs 2000 vs CKC master villians. But, despite this, which is the only bad point in the book, it's still a great book, and you should pick it up if possible. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions John, I can understand where you're coming from, and why you and a lot of other players would prefer a "rounded" design concept for your heroes. I have to say, though, that these kinds of strength-and-weakness builds are one of the things that make this Champions team seem more like the Legion of Super-Heroes than a collection of Silver Surfer-wannabes to me. The heroes of the Legion all have their specialties, which are rather limited, but they use teamwork to maximize their strengths. In the case of the Champs 3000, Bulletproof is the damage sponge, protecting his frailer teammates from attacks; Charm distracts and harasses the enemy, making them waste Phases trying to hit her; Sage snipes at foes from a distance with his mental powers; Defender is a heavy blaster, coming in to put an opponent down fast after the others set him up. Now, I would suggest that the Champions team tactics writeups could have gone into more detail on how to use these characters as a group for maximum effectiveness. That being said, experienced players or GMs could probably figure this out for themselves, and experienced gamers are the ones most likely to be playing at this level. This is of course JMO, YMMV etc. As I said, though, since this seems reflective of a LSH approach to "cosmic" gaming, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a deliberate design decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions I'll have mine this week if all goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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