McCoy Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Hypertime contains the idea that universes don't just split, they also re-join. A character can wake up one day and remember both that he left his keys on the dresser and that he left them in his coat pocket, and both can be true simultaneously, even though there's still only one set of keys; the two universes "merged" when he picked up his keys off of the dresser. Mars the Lifeless Rock, Mars the pulp wonderland of John Carter, and the many versions of the Mars of the Martian Manhunter are all equally "real", potentially merging into a single present with multiple pasts once you actually visit Mars. The Multiverse construct assumes that a parallel universe, once it diverges at some key point, remains separate. Kwel! "If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it multiple choice!" -- the Joker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time The Watchmen was essentially a retcon of the old Charleton characters from the 60s and 70s' date=' and as such was among the best retcons ever done, MHO. [/quote'] I thought of mentioning that but to me it's not a retcon as they did create new characters - I think if most companies just recast iconic characters and left originals alone, generally speaking people wouldn't complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time The Earth-1/Earth-2 thing would have to count as the greatest in my book. The revived JSA was (a) great in its own right and ( probably better than the original version. Actually, Earth-2 was cooler than Earth-1 in pretty nearly all respects. I guess that makes Crisis on Infinite Earths one of the bad retcons... I still like the Golden Age JS much better, personally. But the Earth-1, Earth-2 thing did work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Bill Willingham's Fables. This has to be the retcon to end all retcons. What was Fables a retcon of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time What was Fables a retcon of? Classic fairy tales, only it's not a retcon. The fairytales happened as told but the characters are more or less different now. Fun series but I thought it went downhill after they revealed who the Adversary was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Classic fairy tales' date=' only it's not a retcon. The fairytales happened as told but the characters are more or less different now. Fun series but I thought it went downhill after they revealed who the Adversary was.[/quote'] Ah, yes, okay, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time The stories that created the term 'retcon', even if the term itself got, well, 'retconned': Roy Thomas' All-Star Squadron. New stories 'interwoven' into continuity after the fact (hence 'retroactive continuity') without disrupting the original continuity. The First is still the Best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Not canon' date=' but [b']Earth X[/b]. I resisted reading it because I thought it was just another mutant-love series. When I was finally convinced to read it I was blown away. Somebody worked damned hard to come up with an explanation for everything that happened in the Marvel Universe ever! Galactus, vibranium, the Eternals, Crusher Creel, Black Bolt, Machine Man, Captain America...and the Asgardians! I know the story isn't official, but I just can't look at any of these things the same way. An excellent story. I thought this was one of the best Graphic Novels They ever did. I think I still have the old What If that included the eternals coming to Earth and creating the Eternals, Deviants (If I remember correctly) and what would become mutants. (This was not the What If story but an added story at the end.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenobite Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time As much as I friggin' hate John Byrne, I have to admit that I really liked the idea of Hippolyta as the golden age Wonder Woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time The early incarnation of Batman was a pulp inspired vigilante detective that was not above taking the lives of criminals to get the job done. In those days he drop crooks of rooftops, shot them with machine guns and broke their necks with his bare hands. Of course, depending on which side of the fence you are on, retconning him into an iron clad CVK may have been the best or worst thing to happen to the character... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time I will add my weight to the Watchmen if that counts. But here's one. The redone origin of Professor Zoom in the Flash where at one stage you think it is Barry Allen with Wally West but it is Zoom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catacomb Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Everyone and their sister used to think Wolverine was always a tough as nails type character but the way they did his Origin was very suprising, and actually helped me to like the character again. Not really a retcon, but his origin certainly flew in the face of conventional wisdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Changing Flash's origin from a lightning bolt with a chemical bath into a visitation from his future self in energy form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time The early incarnation of Batman was a pulp inspired vigilante detective that was not above taking the lives of criminals to get the job done. In those days he drop crooks of rooftops, shot them with machine guns and broke their necks with his bare hands. Of course, depending on which side of the fence you are on, retconning him into an iron clad CVK may have been the best or worst thing to happen to the character... That's why I like to think that The Dark Knight Returns is basically Earth-2 continuity. If one accepts that then the rest is a lot easier to swallow, not that I had trouble with it, that story is one of the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time That Spidey Clone thing. I'm kidding! I'm kidding!... Don't hurt me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catacomb Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time It was mentioned in another thread but I'll ask here because its on my mind. Does anyone remember the issue number of the Spiderman comic where he takes Aunt May out and tells her he's Spiderman and she tells him she's always known? That was an awesome comic book moment and I'd like to get my hands on it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Does Planetary count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time I've really enjoyed the Surpreme Powers miniseries (or is it an ongoing? Well, whichever; I read the first 2 trades). That's a neat re-imagining of the Squadron Supreme (which is itself a parody of the Justice League). If you haven't read it and you like good Iron Age stuff, pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Marvel's The Ultimates series I think it rocks Seconded! Though I'd really call books like that (and Supreme Power) a "re-imagining" rather than a "retcon". But we're not being super precise with the term so it's all cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Changing Flash's origin from a lightning bolt with a chemical bath into a visitation from his future self in energy form. Yes. That was a very cool and very moving story. Repped for reminding me of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Classic fairy tales' date=' only it's not a retcon. The fairytales happened as told but the characters are more or less different now. Fun series but I thought it went downhill after they revealed who the Adversary was.[/quote'] I've been looking at it off and on myself, so... just who/what is the Adversary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time I thought that pre-crisis world neither split nor joined they were seperate since the beginning. They were truly parallel. But hypertime universes were constantly splitting off from each other but often remaining so close that thing slipped between them without anyone noticing. That's generally true, though there were exceptions. For example, Earth-1 was supposed to split into two parallel time tracks in 1985, one in which the Great Disaster resulted in Kamandi's future, the other in which its absence led to the future with the Legion of Super Heroes. Instead, the Crisis occurred and made the whole point moot. But divergence was supposedly almost impossible to cause, it didn't happen with every instance of time travel like it does at Marvel. I think my favorite retcon would be Perez' post-Crisis revamping of Wonder Woman. That was a thing of beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time I've been looking at it off and on myself' date=' so... just who/what is the Adversary?[/quote'] The Adversary is Gepetto. Yup that's right, all the classic fairy tale characters including Alladin and his genie got thier tails handed to them by Pinnochio's daddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time Don't know if it counts as a retcon, or just a "Why didn't anyone ever connect those dots before?" moment : Ultron created using Hank Pym's own brainwave patterns. In all my years of reading Avengers, don't think it was ever addressed until the Busiek run, but it makes great sense and adds to both Pym and Ultron as characters. That's what I think the really smooth retcons do - they add something interesting, putting a different spin on things without having to really invalidate anything else. (edit) In other words, *real* "retroactive continuity" - "It was there all along", not "X didn't happen, Y really did. Hah hah! Dummy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: The best retcons of all time It was mentioned in another thread but I'll ask here because its on my mind. Does anyone remember the issue number of the Spiderman comic where he takes Aunt May out and tells her he's Spiderman and she tells him she's always known? That was an awesome comic book moment and I'd like to get my hands on it again. Edit: Oops. Didn't read this all the way through. That would be nice to tell the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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