Go home, Superman!

[Richard Logue]

I could use a little bit of GMing advice. Let's say your PCs' team of superheroes are not the most uber supers in the campaign city. Let's say, for instance, you run your game based in Metropolis or Gotham. Superman and Batman, respectively, are the go-to heroes for those cities. So, as the GM, you design a little plot of villainy wherein a supervillain exposes his *doomsday machine* and holds the city hostage for one billion dollars.

 

How do you handle Superman and/or Batman vs the PCs? You're not telling your players a story about how Superman saves the day... You're setting a scenario where the PCs can save the day.

 

Once, I used the Superman/Batman was captured by the supervillain,leaving the PCs to save the day. Great, but how often can I use that before the players start thinking the uberhero is an uberwimp?

 

I could claim the uberhero was distracted by some plot of the villain, but used too often and he gets known as ubergullible.

 

The uberhero was out of town this week? Next week too?

 

I just dont want to be hackneyed about why the uberhero is taking the backseat in the PCs campaign. How do you guys handle this in your campaigns?

 

Thanks

Richard

[Theron]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

The campaign I'm currently in the planning stages on is borrowing heavily from the "Second String Supers" background in Truth & Justice (a pretty neat supers RPG in its own right, but not a good fit for my likely players). In it, the local Superman-level hero has been called to join a global superhero league that's currently occupied more or less full time with an incoming alien invasion they're trying to thwart as quietly as possible. The PCs are all new heroes or low powered veterans recruited to keep an eye on things while the big guy is off-world.

 

The PCs will have some legitimacy in that they're the chosen successors, but they'll also have to deal with the baggage of being seen as B-listers until they start showing they can do the job for themselves.

[Boll Weevil]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

In my Abnormals setting, the fact our hero group was second-string was the underlying premise of the campaign. The players knew this fact going in and was a major plot point for nearly every session. At one time or another, every member of the Abnormals had actually applied for positions on the Champions roster. We even roleplayed it. Pretty funny session, actually. In the beginning we played the old "Champions have disappeared" or some such scenario to get the heroes involved. Later, the governmental governing body that sanctioned the Champions approached the team for recruitment. It seemed the Champions were beloved for their Silver Age sensibilities but the agency needed some heroes who were not afraid to get their hands dirty, so to speak. The Abnormals, though sanctioned, took on jobs that might compromise the Champions' social standing, not to mention Codes vs Killing. Think police vs CIA.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

I see two ways:

 

1) Don't set the campaign in Metropolis or Gotham. Superman and Batman are heroes the PCs read about. Set it in Freedom City or Municiberg, or use second-tier real cities like Cincinnati or Minneapolis.

 

2) Don't have a Superman or Batman at all. Make the heroes just as important as any other heroes; maybe even the first superheroes (that's how we did it in our campaign, a decision I've never regretted).

 

Players as a rule don't like playing second fiddle. They may not have a problem with more powerful/famous superheroes existing, but they'll get tired pretty soon of competing with them.

[Victim]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Give the uberhero a larger scale of responsibility. If superguy has to protect the whole world, he has plenty of reasons not to be around when disaster strikes at home. Ordinary crime, natural disasters, accidents, and super villains can strike in any country, and the really big name heroes might be as interested in helping over there.

 

Multiple threats can also require different groups of heroes. If there are several villains unleashing doomsday devices, superguy and the PCs might be handy to have around.

[OddHat]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Some good suggestions above.

 

I don't usually give an explanation. The assumption is that other Heroes are off doing something else. Occasionally the PCs might hear something about it, usually they won't (unless they ask). I also made a point of having most of the previous Mightiest Heroes of the campaign vanish one way or another between ten and twenty years ago, leaving the PCs the current best of the best. After all, it's their story.

 

If you need an in game explanation, Superman hasn't been making public appearances for the last few months or years. There are still reports now and then of a flying man in red and blue, the odd rescue or mysterious intervention, but nothing more. If you (as the GM) ever need him for something, you can bring him back. Otherwise, he's just gone, and no one knows why.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

One of the classic bits from 80s comics that I've read was that every time one hero team tried to get ahold of another one, they were always unavailable ... out on a mission, off-world, or whathaveyou.

[Clonus]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

I could use a little bit of GMing advice. Let's say your PCs' team of superheroes are not the most uber supers in the campaign city. Let's say, for instance, you run your game based in Metropolis or Gotham. Superman and Batman, respectively, are the go-to heroes for those cities. So, as the GM, you design a little plot of villainy wherein a supervillain exposes his *doomsday machine* and holds the city hostage for one billion dollars.

 

Man walks into a doctor's office. He says "Doctor, it hurts when I do this.". The doctor says "Well, don't do that."

 

If your problem is that the uberdude will almost inevitably intervene when someone holds the city for ransom so the PCs can't save the day... then don't do that. Don't face the players with a well-publicised massive threat and plenty of time to respond. Face them instead with a threat that is local, or covert or very fast to develop, something Uberdude won't necessarily notice in time because he isn't in the right place at the right time, or doesn't have the exact same abilities the PCs have that let them know what is going on.

 

That being said there is another option you may want to consider.

Kill him. You're not a comic book company and you won't lose circulation if you lose a headliner. If you've firmly established that Uberdude is the man, top dog, head honcho...then bringing down his killer ought to make your players feel good if only because because they faced someone that tough and came out on top.

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

I would suggest going the other route. If you do have a "Superman" character in the campaign city, have him embrace the PC's in the city. Have him be greatfull for the assistance. The PC's presence means even more crimes are being stopped, even more people are being made safe.

 

Have him be altruistic and honest. Have him treat the PC's as allies, not sidekicks.

[Dr. Rune]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

For a quick and easy 'out', you could just say that the "Uberhero" mysteriously.....vanishes. That would add another layer of drama as well as give the PCs another task to complete.

 

You could also set it up where "Uberhero" is looking to retire/go to a higher plane of existence/losing his powers, etc. and is looking to the PC team to be his 'replacements'. He might allow them to get into situations and not bail them out to prove that they are truly worthy to carry on his mantle.

 

Just a few ideas off the top of my head....

[assault]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Have him treat the PC's as allies' date=' not sidekicks.[/quote']

 

I would seriously consider this option. Apart from anything else, it's less cynical than the upstaging approach.

 

Even "Superman" has to sleep or go to work sometime. Or even go out on a date with "Lois".

 

For that matter, even the showdown with Doctor Deathray doesn't necessarily require the PCs to be upstaged. After all, if they find his Evil Lair first, they're the ones who get to try to stop him. And so what if "Superman" turns up as well. It just means that he gets to fight a Really Big Robot while the PCs are doing their thing.

 

Having a "Batman" around might actually be more of a problem, in that he might tend to take the mystery out of all the mysteries. But at least he is less overwhelming in combat. Of course, it's more likely that he is going to be working on his own cases anyway.

 

Yes. I'd definitely go with the "allies" approach. I certainly wouldn't have a "Superman" character who has a "Pwned n00bs!" approach - unless I wanted the PCs to take him down at some point.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Or of course, the big bad villain and the uberhero are actually the same guy.........

 

For added plot points, he's schizophrenic and doesn't know it. His good ID is actually good:thumbup: and his bad ID is actually bad. His good ID is grateful to the players for stopping his bad ID and begins a treatment program. Everyone agrees that it wouldn't do anyone any good to expose him since he's honestly unaware of his other persona, and maybe he even has to be talked out of turning himself in.

 

Better if you have a mentalist who can verify the truth after he recovers from his 'episode'. Or if your players are vulnerable to suggestion.

[casualplayer]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Actually in a recent comic they showed that The Prankster is basically a high-priced Superman distraction-for-hire. So when the Masked Marmoset wants to rob the 3rd National Metropolis Bank unimpeded, he hires The Prankster to fire acid cream pies at Big Blue from 8:45-8:59 PM and times his heist accordingly. Kurt Busiek is a genius sometimes.

 

Also Dr. Failsafe will of course prepare for Superman if he's planning something in Metropolis, a red sun lazer, kryptonite bomb, hyperspeed mines, etc. Maybe his preparations are something that your players are better suited to survive and triumph over, and then the bad guy can shriek "How could you live? That would have annihilated Superman!" The PCs get big smiles and get to wear the daddy pants for a while.

 

Let the players pull the superstar's bacon out of the fire every so often so that they won't mind so much when the NPC returns the favor.

 

Lastly, recognise that no superhero has lasted long in Metropolis or Gotham without being adopted into the family. The pressure to perform is just too much.

[McCoy]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

I would suggest going the other route. If you do have a "Superman" character in the campaign city, have him embrace the PC's in the city. Have him be greatfull for the assistance. The PC's presence means even more crimes are being stopped, even more people are being made safe.

 

Have him be altruistic and honest. Have him treat the PC's as allies, not sidekicks.

 

For a quick and easy 'out'' date=' you could just say that the "Uberhero" mysteriously.....vanishes. That would add another layer of drama as well as give the PCs another task to complete.[/quote']

Combine those two. On the first adventure, Kal-El shows up during the mopping up, says he was watching the situation with his super-vision while he was busy elsewhere, but as they had it in hand he finished his other mission. Thanks, nice to know there's a team that can back him up.

 

Next couple of scenarios, they find out later what he was doing. Maybe once he can show up while they are taking on some mooks, offer to help. Then, they stop hearing about him. Nothing. When they get around to asking, no one has heard from him in weeks. Next campagine arc, the Search for Superman.

[OzMike]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Narratively, I think that one of the best handlers of this problem is Kurt Busiek's Astro City. A whole city that only has a Superman clone (Samartian), but also a Justice League clone (Honor Guard), a Challengers of The Unknown/Fantastic Four clone (First Family), a Batman clone (Confessor), numerous Daredevil/Streethero clones (Crackerjack, Jack-In-The-Box), a Punisher clone (Blue Knight), a Spectre clone (closest thing I could think of for The Hanged Man) just to name a few... and it works.

 

Basically my advice is that you let the heroes handle whatever you want them too. Want them to save the world? Superman is off saving the galaxy. The galaxy? Superman is off saving the universe. Or maybe the Pcs will go off and save the galaxy because uber-hero is dealing with forest fires on the west coast or floods in Bangladesh. Uber-powerful heroes will always have to deal with uber-powerful threats. Never let the uber-hero take the local spotlight from the PCs, and it always helps if the heroes act like equals in the fight against miscreants, rather than immature playgound bullies or smart-bottoms.

 

Solve a mystery? Batman is pursuing one of his rogues gallery or dealing with something international. Or maybe he is more cautious and less hands on than the PCs, so you could end up with a sweet moment of the PCs actually working it out and taking down the bad guy, only to have Batman appear when the dust has settled to explain any narrative points the PCs didn't work out that you wanted them to, congratulate them on a good job, and leave them to deal with the cops.

 

My 2 bits...

[Comic]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Huh.

 

Me, I just build Superman & Batman each on 150 pts +100 in Disads, and let democracy rule. If I'm in a particularly Pulp mood, Batman's 50 pts.

[assault]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Me' date=' I just build Superman & Batman each on 150 pts +100 in Disads, and let democracy rule. If I'm in a particularly Pulp mood, Batman's 50 pts.[/quote']

 

I'm not a huge fan of 250 point Superman builds. They end up being compromised and cheesy. 350 points is another story, and 450 is pretty sweet.

 

250 point Batman builds are just fine for early versions of the character. 350 gives you lots of elbow room for all the sweet stuff that gets crunched out in the lower point version.

 

In both cases, of course, you have to compare them to the PCs.

 

(In general, I find that 350 points works well for most Golden Age characters.)

[Karmakaze]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

In a more humorous game, the A-List heroes can always be self-important blowhards (consider the one from Mystery Men) or only prone to taking on challenges that make them look good in the press.

[Blue]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Show the occasional news report or daily paper feature that has the main hero involved in stoping some other high-end calamity.

 

Just because one villain is up to something doesn't mean the others go on vacation!

[Balabanto]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

There's already a thread somewhere where I go into a lot of detail about how to have NPC's not save the day all the time, but since I'm magnanimous and like to talk a lot, I'll repeat most of them here.

 

1) Some other villain occupies the hero's time. That's been said by everyone else.

 

2) Sometimes, the hero just doesn't move as fast as the PC's. In some cases, this works fine. In others, it doesn't.

 

3) The hero is relieved that someone else is there.

 

4) In the case of Superman and Batman, their superhero team fights global and galactic threats. One of them is active.

 

5) Villains plan for Superman and Batman. All the time. They successfully avoid Superman and Batman, but run into your PCs instead.

[Clonus]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

I would suggest going the other route. If you do have a "Superman" character in the campaign city, have him embrace the PC's in the city. Have him be greatfull for the assistance. The PC's presence means even more crimes are being stopped, even more people are being made safe.

 

Have him be altruistic and honest. Have him treat the PC's as allies, not sidekicks.

 

Your suggestion doesn't seem to be relevant to the problem the OP was asking about. Whether or not he's altruistic, honest and courteous, he's still way more capable than the PCs and thus more likely to save the day when the city is in peril if he knows about the threat.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Your suggestion doesn't seem to be relevant to the problem the OP was asking about. Whether or not he's altruistic' date=' honest and courteous, he's still way more capable than the PCs and thus more likely to save the day when the city is in peril if he knows about the threat.[/quote']

 

I think it would depend on the threat. If our hypothetical Captain Virtue believes the PCs can handle something, then why not let them handle it and turn his attention to something else?

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

How to keep him from saving the day? Well, others have already pointed out the busy factor, things like the fact that he could be taken out of the picture... so I won't do the same (though seconded on all, particularly the one where he's simply too busy solving other people's problems).

 

So, how else to keep him from being an issue?

 

Give him a *reason* not to.

 

Maybe he's reluctant to take part because he knows that Doctor Disaster is really his brother, and he doesn't want to fight him. So he'll stand back and let the PC's do it, use a cop-out excuse if they question him, and only step in if it looks like they *won't* be able to handle it. In other words, not only is he intentionally playing deus ex machina, he's hoping the play's over and the audience is going home before his cue.

 

Villain blackmails him - DNPC's are there for a reason dammit! ("No, I can't fight him... no, he doesn't have kryptonite... just take care of it yourself, okay! Look, he's got my dog, Mr. Wuffles! I can't do anything or he'll be dipped in chocolate!")

 

Or, just maybe... he can't be all *that* super very long or often. Maybe it's a little known fact that your universes's Kryptonians can only withstand actually *using* the power surge granted by yellow sun for brief periods of time; the strain on their system is just too much to keep doing all that often, or full time. Or Batman's gear could kill him (used, IIRC, in Batman Beyond to justify certain deus ex machina pieces of equipment only being used in emergencies.)

 

Give the hero an Achilles' Heel that makes *sense* for everybody to use (I mean, really, is Earth a kryptonite magnet?), and you're set.

[Lord Fyre]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

I would suggest going the other route. If you do have a "Superman" character in the campaign city, have him embrace the PC's in the city. Have him be greatfull for the assistance. The PC's presence means even more crimes are being stopped, even more people are being made safe.

 

Have him be altruistic and honest. Have him treat the PC's as allies, not sidekicks.

 

This is a great idea! But it needs followed through.

 

"Have him be altruistic and honest. Have him treat the PC's as allies, not sidekicks" for the first two or three adventures.

 

Then kill him!

 

This allows you to use that setting (Metropolis in that case), and it gives the PCs a potentially "highly motivating" mystery/revenge story arc that allows them to come out from Superman's shadow.

[Bluefire]

Re: Go home, Superman!

 

Couple of examples that I can think of:

 

Superman is growing a beard and tilling the fields in Kansas. Why? That is a main point of a story arc by DC, but basically he removed himself. He later comes back in a time of true need.

 

Batman gets his back broken. I'm sure that layed him up for a bit recovering.

 

Green Lantern: Was off dealing with Galactic issues when a meteor hits Emerald City. This also leads into him leaving on a quest of his own... Enter Parallax.

 

Wolverine: Goes in search of his past as Weapon X.

 

Jean Grey: Galaxy hopping as Dark Phoenix.

 

Ironman: Recovering from his original suit design burning out his nervous system. Enter RC Ironman

 

I'm sure there are MANY more examples of heroes going off for various reasons that would require the PCs to step up. Not to mention the fact that Heroes are people too... Maybe they just want some time to decompress and enjoy Maui.