Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

[massey]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

The answer should be that the heroes are the difference. Yes, there are various factors preventing her from bringing the full force of her armies against Earth, but even with all that, she'd be able to do it if it weren't for those meddling heroes. Remember, the game isn't about Istvatha V'han, it's about the PCs.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Well, ideally the heroes are the final nudge that tips her from success to failure, but it seems pretty reasonable to me to come up with pragmatic obstacles to her conquest that allow a handful of 400 point characters to make a difference.

[massey]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

True, at the end of the day, she can't commit all of her forces to the invasion. She can't commit 1% of her forces. She's committing somewhere on the order of .001% or so of her forces, because the rest are busy elsewhere. The feeling shouldn't be "oh she could conquer Earth if she really felt like it." It should be "she sent Invasion Force 5724, the Black Death Division, led by General Maugetar." It should feel like she made a real effort, otherwise it's a direct slap in the face to the characters.

 

I've seen threads come up before about the military versus super heroes. One big advantage supers have is that for all its high tech equipment, the military has a logistics trail 1000 miles long. It's reliant on satellites, fuel trucks, unarmored guys sitting around at base back home, big fragile transport planes, etc. A handful of guys with unusual powers can make short work of military equipment. Aquaman can rip open a hatch on a submarine with little danger to himself. Any hero with flight and life support can take down the entire GPS network in a few hours. Guys with desolid, invisibility, and teleport make a royal mess of the command and control structure.

 

Istvatha V'han's forces, advanced as they may be, may suffer from the exact same problems. Sure, that giant ship hovering over the city looks cool, and it's got a big force field and lasers that can shoot down incoming aircraft or missiles, but inside it's just purple guys with funny foreheads in yellow jumpsuits. So when Nightcrawler teleports in with Colossus in tow...

 

V'han's forces simply aren't equipped to deal with the great variety of powers and threats presented by Earth's superheroes. They're dead men walking against a lot of the more esoteric power types. Your normal 12D6 energy blaster with a force field and flight is pretty straightforward. Yeah he can wreck her communication domes, and give the workers trying to assemble the Domination Array a hell of a time, but at least you can understand what he can do. Unless, of course, he can see different types of energy, and traces you back to your dimensional portal, and plays saboteur on the other side, blowing up fuel tanks and shooting at important electronics before he returns home. Stuff like that can set your invasion back weeks. Guys with weirder powers are even harder to deal with. How do you prevent Menton from sending invasion trooper #24765 back to the command ship with a suitcase nuke? Or just reaching out with his mind and making the pilot steer that ship directly into Mount Everest? These are problems that governments in the Champions Universe have spent decades trying to solve. As a result they have loads of tech that's based purely around stopping whatever the bad guy did last, and counting on the heroes to do the rest.

 

I would think her conventional invasion forces would be far fewer in number, but somewhat superior in tech, to Earth's conventional forces. Think the alien planes from Independence Day. Drop the shield, they can be destroyed. With the shield, they're untouchable. A lot of her tech would be based around having certain support structures in place. These things aren't meant to be shot at -- early 21st century societies aren't supposed to be able to strike at these locations. Putting your command post on the dark side of the moon should make it 100% unassailable. It's the same reason our aircraft carriers don't carry physical armor, because nobody is going to shoot battleship guns at them. After all, when you've got a space cruiser orbiting the planet with a death ray that can blast enemy jets or rockets out of the sky in an instant, you don't need adamantium airlocks or heavily armed guards on board, right? She'd probably supplement her conventional forces with a few pieces of supertech designed to crush resistance in a week. A mind control tower that pacifies a city (which is why she doesn't need billions of soldiers to invade). A weather control device to turn the elements against the locals. A transmitter that jams all communications on Earth (except for hers, of course). Stuff like that will make her regular army nearly unbeatable. Add in 2 or 3 supers on her side, guys who are just there to kind of supervise and deal with any unusual situations (like the occasional lone planetary super, or a weird piece of military technology that they haven't prepared for) and she should just be able to roll over everyone.

 

Until, of course, your heroes smash the mind control tower, and suddenly her 100 or so soldiers are facing ten million pissed off New Yorkers. The jamming device is busted and now everyone can communicate again, and the mothership has a density manipulator kicking holes in the hull from the inside.

[Balabanto]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

The answer should be that the heroes are the difference. Yes' date=' there are various factors preventing her from bringing the full force of her armies against Earth, but even with all that, she'd be able to do it if it weren't for those meddling heroes. Remember, the game isn't about Istvatha V'han, it's about the PCs.[/quote']

 

This is what I like to refer to as a bad analogy. It's also why I don't like or use villains like Istvatha V'han. If the PC's constantly get in the way of a character like Istvatha V'han, then they should be crushed, and they should never even SEE Istvatha V'han. The game is not just about the PC's. It's about the world the characters live in, the people they interact with, and everyone else around them. This form of gaming is, while more gratifying, also a little more narrow in scope.

 

The game should be about superheroes. It doesn't necessarily have to be about the PC's all the time. Sometimes, the PC's should need NPC's to solve problems. Sometimes, NPC's should need the PC's to solve problems. It's about give and take in the world and the universe the heroes live in. The gameworld as a whole should not be just a cartoon backdrop in which the PC's have a personal playground and are the most important things in it. The gameworld is the milieu in which the characters exist. But the level of importance of the characters should be left up to the individual GM and perhaps, more importantly, the actions of the player characters.

[Susano]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

This is what I like to refer to as a bad analogy. It's also why I don't like or use villains like Istvatha V'han. If the PC's constantly get in the way of a character like Istvatha V'han' date=' then they should be crushed, and they should never even SEE Istvatha V'han. The game is not just about the PC's. It's about the world the characters live in, the people they interact with, and everyone else around them. This form of gaming is, while more gratifying, also a little more narrow in scope.[/quote']

 

Except, on a smaller scale, this is no different than Spider-Man or Daredevil versus Kingpin. Kingpin has mobs of thugs, yet he fights Daredevil or Spider-Man one-on-one from time to time. So on a larger scale, Istvatha V'han could appear because she believes that some things are best done personally, even if she has dimensions worth of armies to throw at the problem.

[Peregrine]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Except' date=' on a smaller scale, this is no different than Spider-Man or Daredevil versus Kingpin. Kingpin has mobs of thugs, yet he fights Daredevil or Spider-Man one-on-one from time to time. So on a larger scale, Istvatha V'han could appear because she believes that some things are best done personally, even if she has dimensions worth of armies to throw at the problem.[/quote']

 

This is an ongoing issue in RPGs: the dynamic tension of "genre tropes from the source media" vs. "setting simulationism". Each gaming group generally comes to its own balance, which may vary from game to game and setting to setting, depending on the tastes of the members*/ of the group.

 

 

*GM and players; a dictatorial GM often finds themselves sans players, as many gamers have come to the personal realization that no gaming is preferred to bad gaming.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Well, there's lots of unexplained things that presumably will be addressed in BotE, such as how, exactly, one goes about "conquering" an entire dimension, universe or plane of existence; how one ensures the loyalty/obedience of a fairly vast subject population; how one deals with the various abstract entities and big bads of a targeted dimension; how one goes about defending one's turf from encroachment by other dimensional conquerors; and, more loosely, how one goes about coordinating such a logistical Everest.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

One possibility I'm thinking is that Istvatha V'han may circumvent a lot of conflicts with abstract entities and gods by leaving the dimensions of her empire more or less as she found them, with mainly political and technological changes rather than messing with the religions and the underlying laws/structure of the universe. It probably doesn't matter that much to deities who exactly is sitting on the throne as long as people keep showing up for services in their temples. Likewise, I don't see forces like the Progenitors, Galaxars, and higher-dimensional entities intervening in the spread of a benevolent dictatorship that largely improves the lives of lower life forms the way they might if Tyrannon starts trying to actually merge the universe with his own and make sweeping structural changes to it.

[phoenix240]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

These issues are some of the reasons I've found I can't use villains like V'han in my games. It's too hard for me to rationalize some of the questions they raise. I'm not saying its impossible or that there are not similar issues at lower levels but it's easier for me to grasp how they work or ignore them.

[Christopher]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

These issues are some of the reasons I've found I can't use villains like V'han in my games. It's too hard for me to rationalize some of the questions they raise.

Simply find a answer that works for your game, decide on the techno-/magic-/super-babble behind it later. If it is ever needed.

 

And when in doubt, always remember the one reason why (our) earth is special:

It is our Earth.

[phoenix240]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Simply find a answer that works for your game, decide on the techno-/magic-/super-babble behind it later. If it is ever needed.

 

And when in doubt, always remember the one reason why (our) earth is special:

It is our Earth.

 

I'd have to change V'han so much to get her to work that I'd be essentially making a new character.

[Vondy]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Well' date=' ideally the heroes are the final nudge that tips her from success to failure, but it seems pretty reasonable to me to come up with pragmatic obstacles to her conquest that [i']allow[/i] a handful of 400 point characters to make a difference.

 

This is a meta-explanation. On that level, along with "its genre," its perfectly valid. However, most of the explanations herein are the in-universe explanation/conceit as to why she can't do it. They are two different things when all is said and done.

[Balabanto]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

This is an ongoing issue in RPGs: the dynamic tension of "genre tropes from the source media" vs. "setting simulationism". Each gaming group generally comes to its own balance, which may vary from game to game and setting to setting, depending on the tastes of the members*/ of the group.

 

 

*GM and players; a dictatorial GM often finds themselves sans players, as many gamers have come to the personal realization that no gaming is preferred to bad gaming.

 

Yeah. When I do things I try to do them from a simulationist perspective, and remove villain concepts from the games I run that would simply run roughshod over the player characters because they have no motivation whatsoever to do so. Is my world still really comic-booky? Yes. I would actually argue that the Kingpin situation is very different, because there always comes a time on the streets where you have to settle things with your own fists or lose control of your organization. There's no motivation to do so in Istvatha's case. If she came from a warrior culture where she was obliged to settle conflicts personally, then I would be a lot more likely to say "Aha! This could work."

 

I've just never liked the idea of building a villain where the characters have literally no shot at beating them whatsoever because of the scale of the game vs. the scale of experience points.

[Susano]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Yeah. When I do things I try to do them from a simulationist perspective, and remove villain concepts from the games I run that would simply run roughshod over the player characters because they have no motivation whatsoever to do so. Is my world still really comic-booky? Yes. I would actually argue that the Kingpin situation is very different, because there always comes a time on the streets where you have to settle things with your own fists or lose control of your organization. There's no motivation to do so in Istvatha's case. If she came from a warrior culture where she was obliged to settle conflicts personally, then I would be a lot more likely to say "Aha! This could work."

 

I've just never liked the idea of building a villain where the characters have literally no shot at beating them whatsoever because of the scale of the game vs. the scale of experience points.

 

But in many ways, Istvatha's no different than Kang the Conquerer, Doctor Doom, or Darkseid. You can't 'beat' Darkseid, but you can stop his most recent plots. How about Galactus? Or some of the major threats the Legion ofd Superheroes has faced (the Time Trapper was up there in power and resources, if I recall.) Do these fit in your universe? Because they're almost all fairly central to the universes in which they exist.

 

The issue is one of DOJ needing to provide examples of various classic super villains. This includes the street-level crime lord (Kingpin), the killer clown (Joker), the mad scientist (too many to list), the powered armor goon (too many to list), the killer robot, the escaped experiment, the master of dark magic, the master of martial arts.... the list goes on and on. In this list one needs to include the world conquerers and the threats to the universe. Thus, DOJ needed to try to include characters like Doom, the Mandarin, Loki, the Sun Eater, Darkseid, Galactus, Kang, Thanos, and so on. What a lot of people seem to forget is that A) you don't need to use everyone in the villain books, and you don't need to use anyone as written. The villain books are meant as a resource for GMs who need foes in a hurry. They also are made to fit into a unified background (the Champions Universe) so they have something to relate to. None of this makes any of the characters "bad", but it does allow GMs to decide if they character is something that can or cannot fit into their own campaigns. And even if the character fits in your world, there's no reason not to change names, background details, origin, powers, power level, and so on.

 

I find it somewhat baffling that people seem to think the characters are written in stone and can't be changed and/or altered in anyway. For Istvatha, for example, all you need to do is change it from "billion universes" to "billion star systems" and she goes from multiverse conquerer to galactic (or inter-galactic if you want to be generous) threat—something the Legion fights all the time. Of course, if you are running a more street-level game, than you can skip right over her with no problem.

 

And to be clear, I am not a huge fan of the Champions U (for various reasons, but simply put, it just doesn't appeal to me) and certainly don't "like" every NPC in the various villain books. I'm not even sure I "like" Istvatha herself and know that she wouldn't have fit in any of the supers settings I ran (at least, not as written.) But I can see the need for an NPC like her and why some people would use her.

[massey]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

This is what I like to refer to as a bad analogy. It's also why I don't like or use villains like Istvatha V'han. If the PC's constantly get in the way of a character like Istvatha V'han, then they should be crushed, and they should never even SEE Istvatha V'han. The game is not just about the PC's. It's about the world the characters live in, the people they interact with, and everyone else around them. This form of gaming is, while more gratifying, also a little more narrow in scope.

 

The game should be about superheroes. It doesn't necessarily have to be about the PC's all the time. Sometimes, the PC's should need NPC's to solve problems. Sometimes, NPC's should need the PC's to solve problems. It's about give and take in the world and the universe the heroes live in. The gameworld as a whole should not be just a cartoon backdrop in which the PC's have a personal playground and are the most important things in it. The gameworld is the milieu in which the characters exist. But the level of importance of the characters should be left up to the individual GM and perhaps, more importantly, the actions of the player characters.

 

Except, it's, umm, not an analogy.

 

The game is about the PCs, because they're the ones playing in it. I've been in a few games where the GM was bound and determined to tell his story. NPCs showed up and did all the cool things. NPC heroes fought NPC villains, and the players were just along for the ride. Those games sucked, and that GM quickly found himself without players. He can sit at home and tell stories to himself about his cool NPCs. I'm not saying you run games like that. But in the end, gaming is a social experience that centers around the people involved.

 

If your characters can't handle V'han, then she's probably not appropriate for your campaign. A group of street level heroes probably shouldn't be fighting an extra-dimensional conqueror, any more than a 1st level wizard should be taking on a Great Wyrm Red Dragon. But the idea that heroes who dare thwart the villain should inevitably be crushed, well, that's completely out of genre, and makes for poor gaming. It sounds too much like "I can't let my NPC lose". You don't have to be one of those GMs who spends their nights working out battle plans for how the dragon is going to kill the party. "So, he'll swoop down here, and then he'll breathe fire, and then he goes over here to his secret stash of healing potions, and then he drops the cow carcass that is infested with rot grubs on them... because this is how dragons would really fight."

 

If she's not usable in your campaign, she's not usable. But remember, there's no one playing her in the game. You don't have to defend her honor. She's a villain who is basically an interdimensional President Bush. It's okay for her to sit back and say that the heroes misunderestimated her.

[assault]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

I've just never liked the idea of building a villain where the characters have literally no shot at beating them whatsoever because of the scale of the game vs. the scale of experience points.

 

Obviously the only way to beat a villain is by punching them in the face...

 

I admit that I'm not a Superfriend of the overly powerful supervillains in the CU. Conquering/destroying the city/world/universe/multiverse isn't necessarily or particularly a function of individual combat ability. In general, it requires a plot, which can, by definition, be thwarted.

 

The notion of inevitable revenge is no different than that of an undefeatable plot.

 

The villains win! Woo hoo!

-- or --

NPCs beat them! Woo hoo!

-- or --

Your characters beat them, but then get killed in the inevitable revenge plot! NPCs avenge them! Woo hoo!

-- or --

We play some other game! Woo hoo!

[Christopher]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

But in many ways' date=' Istvatha's no different than Kang the Conquerer, Doctor Doom, or Darkseid. You can't 'beat' Darkseid, but you can stop his most recent plots. How about Galactus? Or some of the major threats the Legion ofd Superheroes has faced (the Time Trapper was up there in power and resources, if I recall.) Do these fit in your universe? Because they're almost all fairly central to the universes in which they exist.[/quote']

 

I've just never liked the idea of building a villain where the characters have literally no shot at beating them whatsoever because of the scale of the game vs. the scale of experience points.

They how about not beating, but thwarting? Stopping the plot that is in action.

 

They are a lot more villains in the CU that can simply not be overcome in a direct fight:

Dr. Destroyer, Gravitar, Grond. Each of them has so many points you never will have a shot at subdoing him in a fair combat. But you can prevent Dr. D from extorting the world with his Deathray (by blowing it up), or Distract Grond enough on his Rampage that he "forgets" that he wanted to smash that nuclear power plant. Istvatha also comes on that list, but not because she has a lot of points but because she has no reason the even go there. So unless your attacks are interdimensional, there is little chance to hit her in the face with most attacak powers.

 

Champions Genre book even has a name for such beings: Cosmicmenace/Space God. A simple term for all those enemies where using your attack powers to hit them in the face isn't going to win the day. If your players dislike those stories (or least how they turn out with you as GM*), then they are missing some good roleplaying and storylines.

 

*with the words from basic instict:

"I thought you liked it when man use their hands?" "No, I said I liked it when [specific man] used his hands."

 

The game is about the PCs' date=' because they're the ones playing in it. I've been in a few games where the GM was bound and determined to tell his story. NPCs showed up and did all the cool things. NPC heroes fought NPC villains, and the players were just along for the ride. Those games sucked, and that GM quickly found himself without players. He can sit at home and tell stories to himself about his cool NPCs. I'm not saying you run games like that. But in the end, gaming is a social experience that centers around the people involved.[/quote']

In my few tries as GM I personally tended towards that. I think it is my instict to play that get's the better of me.

 

You don't have to be one of those GMs who spends their nights working out battle plans for how the dragon is going to kill the party. "So' date=' he'll swoop down here, and then he'll breathe fire, and then he goes over here to his secret stash of healing potions, and then he drops the cow carcass that is infested with rot grubs on them... because this is how dragons [i']would really fight[/i]."

I personally also tended to think that I can't overrule the personality of my character. But that was wrong.

No matter how detailed I planned the personality, I the player have final say on how he acts and I ahve to make sure it is in a way that the GM can work with it.

The same applies for NPC's: Sometimes they just act totally out of character, because it fits the story. Could be temporary mind controll, some minor personality quirk that got the better of him (overcinfidence) or just a brain fart. Sometimes it's jsut "Squirrel Girl" day for your cosmic menace.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Book of the Empress.

Does know if the book explains why she couldn't/didn't conquer it before? (Feel free to post it in a spoiler.) I'd presume it does; unfortunately, I doubt I'll be able to order the book for another 3-4 months.

[Balabanto]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

The problem is that not only will Is'vatha not face the heroes in battle herself, it's that this is a rocks fall, everyone dies character. She literally has infinite thugs and resources. Player Characters should not only never face her, but they should never even SEE her.

 

When I run characters, I pay attention to their INT scores. Geniuses are played smart. Morons are played dumb. No other character in the game has resources of an infinity symbol.

 

Is'vatha falls into a special class of character. I stress this because Marvel and DC do this a lot too. Is'vatha is the type of character who is created by a comic book writer with absolutely no thought about what is going to happen once the character is inserted into the world. Now, if that was Steve's intention when she was created, he's a genius. And that has to be what I'm going to believe until the end of time, because I have to believe that Steve Long is that smart.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Does know if the book explains why she couldn't/didn't conquer it before? (Feel free to post it in a spoiler.) I'd presume it does; unfortunately' date=' I doubt I'll be able to order the book for another 3-4 months. [/quote']

 

The book does, in fair detail. Short answer: superhumans. They performed the extraordinary acts of genius and heroism that let them win against impossible odds in the comics -- which is, after all, the point of the genre. That includes supervillains, many of whom also fought in defense of the Earth. But they were joined by Earth's militaries, forces from interstellar civilizations, and maybe even a cosmic entity or two. Still, the wars were lengthy -- one- and two-month sieges of the planet -- and the outcome often in doubt.

 

BOTE brings up some things to keep in mind about V'han's invasion plans. While she has nearly infinite resources, she also has nearly infinite territory to control and protect, not only from internal threats but from rival conquerors such as Tyrannon and Skarn. It's not like she can devote all her forces to attacking a single target. There are also logistical restrictions in attacking from another dimension; V'han's dimensional gates have practical limits in their rate of transmission of men and materiel. The bigger or tougher the dimensional target, the more planning and preparation required to invade it.

 

That said, Istvatha has successfully conquered many alternate Earths already, including near-duplicates of Champions Earth. This particular one has had a few lucky breaks so far. But the Empress has the patience of an immortal, so unless something extraordinary happens it's just a matter of time until she succeeds. BOTE also lays out the subtle plans V'han has already set in motion to bring Champions Earth under her sway.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Is'vatha falls into a special class of character. I stress this because Marvel and DC do this a lot too. Is'vatha is the type of character who is created by a comic book writer with absolutely no thought about what is going to happen once the character is inserted into the world. Now' date=' if that was Steve's intention when she was created, he's a genius. And that has to be what I'm going to believe until the end of time, because I have to believe that Steve Long is that smart.[/quote']

 

I can't say whether Steve thought through all the implications when he created the character. However, Book Of The Empress deals exhaustively with who she is, how she thinks and acts, how her empire and forces function, and ways in which she could credibly be beaten (although almost all of those amount to only temporary setbacks).

[Clonus]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

The answer should be that the heroes are the difference. Yes' date=' there are various factors preventing her from bringing the full force of her armies against Earth, but even with all that, she'd be able to do it if it weren't for those meddling heroes. Remember, the game isn't about Istvatha V'han, it's about the PCs.[/quote']

 

Frankly it bugs me a bit when the bad guys victory is inevitable because they'll always be there and the PCs won't and the only reason why they can't even beat the PCs is because they always send just short of the required resources to do the job.

[Cassandra]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

To destroy is easy, to conquer is not.

 

An outright invasion, even if it works, would lead to massive damage to the planet because of the fighting and the potential use of nuclear weapons (Marvel's The Avengers, anyone?). So you might control the planet, but it's going to be radioactive for a few decades.

 

Then you have the underground movement that will spring up and set off bombs, and slow down work, and spy and steal and to all those things that upset your time table.

 

Then you have to consider the surviving superheroes who if they lose the big one will be trying to undo it, and look into time travel or entering alternate dimensions that have been conquered for allies, and information about weaknesses.

 

Suddenly you've got Captain Patriot and the whole Super Hero Crew popping out at the Empress's sweet sixteen party after she's just conquered her first dimension and taking her down before she can blow out the candles.

 

It's just common sense.

[LoresLost]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

I will throw an idea out there for those who don't worry about being out of continuity* - V'han needs an "anchor avatar" to truly rule a dimension, a humanoid female native, who when touched by the Empress becomes transformed into a living conduit of her will. The problem is finding this person, she has narrowed the search area for the Champions Universe to earth, and now only has to figure out which single woman of approximately 3.5 billion women/girls is the receptive to this transformation...

 

This gives reason for V'Han to be sending just small commando forces and for her personage to come to the world as well, as she can not hold the hearts and minds of this universe until the target is transformed by her touch in our universe.

 

*(As it is in an Comic book based RPG )

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Frankly it bugs me a bit when the bad guys victory is inevitable because they'll always be there and the PCs won't and the only reason why they can't even beat the PCs is because they always send just short of the required resources to do the job.

 

 

Well, in the case of Istvatha V'han, the enemy needn't always be there. It's called "the V'hanian Empire" for a reason: it's wholly the creation of the Empress, and she's really the glue binding it all together. Her unique abilities allow her to manage it like no one else, and her vision and symbol unites its diverse peoples. If you could take V'han out, the whole thing will probably unravel. And although she's ageless, Istvatha is far from unkillable. She is extremely well protected, but even the Empress herself understands that sooner or later, one of her enemies will get to her. She hasn't yet come up with a satisfactory plan for succession, though.