Lord Liaden Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Even if the Quaternion Banishment is known to any Earthly mage -- and it isn't unless and until Robert Caliburn becoming Archmage from Champions Online becomes PnP canon -- it's unclear whether a magic spell would even affect a non-supernatural, science-based conqueror like V'han. I don't think one could count on the cosmic entities in the Milky Way Galaxy stepping in to stop Istvatha, either. In various eras of the Hero Universe all manner of malevolent, oppressive species run rampant across the galaxy -- Sleynu, Elder Worm, Gohk'pa, Xenovores, Nibu Gemani -- and the cosmic types don't even say "boo." As for Earth's various gods, the Ban greatly restricts their ability to manifest on Earth, so unless V'han tried to pass to Earth through the Parterres there wouldn't be much they could do against her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkonduty Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Re. the Quartenion Banishment. It is only effective against beings from the, er, higher dimensions... Can't think of the name of them, at work at the moment so can't check books. But the higher dimensions being those 3 groupings of dimensions that does NOT include the group that includes the Earth dimension. God, does that even make sense? I'm a bit high on flu medicine right now. ANYWAY... the spell may well not work on V'Han as she may not be from these higher dimensions. For why she just wouldn't win: I really liked Oddhat's explanations as given way back, near the start of the thread. Basically she can't go and just invade willy nilly. There are considerations that go beyond merely being bigger and badder than the Earth: the whole balance of international powers; factions at home; other military commitments. cheers all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? The banishment works on the Qlipthic monsters beyond the Abyss that DEMON is trying to summon. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Well, one would hope it does, anyway. As I recall the exact wording specifies natives of the Outer Planes; the Arcane Adversaries background on the Kings of Edom implied they may have originated in long-dead Assiatic universes similar to our own, which might mean they wouldn't qualify as its intended targets. There's also the little problem of no one around being capable of casting it, with the possible exceptions of former archmages The Eternal Tulku (now senile) and Takofanes (now undead and not exactly protective of humanity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkonduty Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? True, but Takofanes might be awfully possessive of humanity. "These are my sheep, begone little green-blue woman." PLus the spell has the benefit of killing many folks. So, hey, maybe. Of course I don't think it would work on V'Han but that's my take on her dimension of origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? In order for the Quaternion Banishment to work on her, she would need to be from a dimension among Hod or Netzach, or farther out, on the Sephiroth. Tyrannon and Skarn are from such places; V'Han very likely is not (as all the 'mundane' alternate universes of the material universe are still Assiatic planes, way down on the Sephiroth's bottom along with Earth). Indeed, since part of the definition of an Outer Plane is one where the reality runs primarily on magic as opposed to science, she's likely not from one. The point is moot, however; the bulk of her Dimensional Legions are definitely Assiatic natives, being from 'ordinary' alternate dimensions that run on science, and so the Banishment won't do a durn thing to them. Furthermore, the Quaternion Banishment expires the instant any single native of any of the Inner Planes invites the banished one to return from the Outer Planes, so even if she was susceptible to it in the first place, any one of trillions of her loyal subjects can turn it off any time they feel like. (This is why Tyrannon keeps getting un-banished; as soon as he gets another cult of idiots worshipping him, bam.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Destroyer Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Hi all, Originally Posted by Balabanto: If I were Lady Vhan, I'd make certain that I attacked third world nations first, and made their lives significantly better. Of course, since one of my other villains already did this at one point, there would be a fight in my world, but that's neither here nor there. So, Vhan deposes a bunch of scummy dictators, kills them, and installs kind, benevolent despotism, good health care, decent housing, and a supportive governor selected from the most popular of locals. What now? That's why I can't use this villain. She's not played up to her intelligence level. Yeah, because giving Third Worlders who have known only violence and corruption in government access to modern (or super-science) technology and time away from subsistence labor to plot is sure to engender nothing but gratitude. This is the big flaw in Utopian scheming in general - people have desires beyond the material, many of those desires (power, revenge, etc.) are incompatible with the Utopia, and any Utopia that provides people with anything that is at all useful in attaining those desires will either be cast down by those who succeed in attaining them, or turn oppressive in trying to preserve itself. The Empress has been around a while, and presumably knows the score - does anyone think she really wants to take up the Teal Man's Burden? Originally Posted by Fireball: Look, in a year there are about 30,000,000 seconds. If a conqueror devoted only 5 minutes to each universe (excluding every doing anything like eating, sleeping, taking a potty break, talking, or any independent thought), you could only cover 100,000 universes. And 5 minutes cannot run a so-called governing authority over a little league game, much less a country, or world, or solar system, or constellation, or galaxy, or universe. Is this really being taken seriously as an excuse for dismissing the Empress out of hand? Has no one around these parts ever read the definitive classic of Dimension Travel, Zelazny's Chronicles Of Amber? Like the Amberites, the Empress is an immortal dimension-shifter; unlike them, she does not even need to sleep. So she only needs to do what Amberites do when they need more time - shift to a dimension where the flow of time is faster. 30 million seconds a year? A six order of magnitude difference in time flow will provide her with 24 million hours a day! Granted, that is an extreme difference - much more so than was ever used in the Amber novels - but this is a comic-book multiverse, and it seems plausible that a forward-thinking dimensional conquerer would have gone looking for just such a dimension early in her career for this exact purpose. The real answer to the OP's question - "why can't she conquer Earth?" - is pretty obviously this: she can. The inevitable follow-up question - "then why hasn't she?" - is also pretty easy: the cost would be too high. The really interesting question underlying these is, "how could the cost of conquering one tiny planet possibly be too high for someone with the resources of a hundred million dimensions at her command?" It is with this question that we really get into fascinating details of logistics, strategic positioning with regard to her rivals, and (of course) bribery with delicious fruit pies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? The real answer to the OP's question - "why can't she conquer Earth?" - is pretty obviously this: she can. The inevitable follow-up question - "then why hasn't she?" Steve Long answer to that is simply: "CU-Earth is Special". Simply because it is CU earth and a V'han that just overruns the world would do a bad job as a "space god" for a champions campaign. The entire point of someone like her is: You cannot beat her directly. Even a bunch of 750 point heroes has no chance of just flying over and beat her up (because she brought ten times as many 750 point Villians with her). That gives the GM a chance to bring the players into a setting where raw power won't save the day and the players have to start to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjandreano Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? No, you guys have it all wrong. The reason she hasn't conquered the Earth is because she is actually a good person and she will come to Earth when its people are ready to accept her benevolence. If only those misguided "heroes" could understand that she just wants to make the Earth a better place. Really, that's the reason, just ask her! Maybe the problem is this Steve Long guy who keeps spreading lies about her. I bet he is really a super villain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Maybe the problem is this Steve Long guy who keeps spreading lies about her. I bet he is really a super villain! Well, it is well established that he's a robot, so his loyalty to humanity and humanity's best interests is questionable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfergus Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? You guys still have it wrong. See, she has an ego. When she heard a book was being written about her she dropped all plans of conquest to help with the book. She said things in interviews (not to be cited as such) to appear more awesome. Any weaknesses - well, are guesses or just plain wrong. Now that the book is out, planning will begin. It may take time to actually start any invasion as she reads it over and over and... well you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? She tried to conquer Earth by winning the presidency of the United States while in disguise but she kept making ridiculous errors like saying she could see Russia from her Alaskan front door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Competition.She has Doc D, Tyrannon, The Lich Lord, and others who will drop everything to ensure she won't accomplish what they will. Let alone those pesky heroes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Champions Earth has Mr Burns Syndrome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjandreano Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? How about this: all of those (really evil) guys are trying to invade/conquer the Earth, so the heroes have to get help from the Empress to stop them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? I have a pet theory that Istvatha V'han isn't really trying to conquer the Earth. However, there's this one particular human that she's got her eye on and wants for a consort, and attacking Earth is her way of trying to get his attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? She conquers whole dimensions at a time. Earth is just one world in yet another dimension, one that didn't fall at the first onslaught. Other worlds in our dimension apparently have. She hasn't got around to us seriously yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjandreano Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? She's actually protecting Earth from evil such as Tyrannon. His servants on Earth are spreading lies about Istvatha to fool earth's heroes into thinking she's the villain! That's it! Really! Steve Long serves Tyrannon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Why can't Earth conquer Istvatha V'han? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? How about this: all of those (really evil) guys are trying to invade/conquer the Earth' date=' so the heroes have to get help from the Empress to stop them! [/quote'] V'han is one of the very few villains, of any supers universe, whom I would trust to keep her word to help if she gave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? I have a pet theory that Istvatha V'han isn't really trying to conquer the Earth. However' date=' there's this one particular human that she's got her eye on and wants for a consort, and attacking Earth is her way of trying to get his attention. [/quote'] There is nothing like reducing a woman who rules 100 million dimensions to Acceptable Feminine Goals. Ergo, Career Vs. Landing a Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? She conquers whole dimensions at a time. Earth is just one world in yet another dimension' date=' one that didn't fall at the first onslaught. Other worlds in our dimension apparently have. She hasn't got around to us seriously yet.[/quote'] Or maybe Earth actually has nothing of unique value, except contentious super-powered counter-insurgents, that she needs. Maybe she's taken over the dimension but finds Earth insignificant enough to ignore except when she's bored. And then, maybe she just "plays" at conquering Earth because winning would mean no games to play for future downturns in her cycle of conquest. "Let's see what they do this time..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjandreano Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? That's an interesting idea. She takes over whole dimensions (universes, etc.). Earth is just one planet, maybe she does control the dimension already, how would we know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? That's an interesting idea. She takes over whole dimensions (universes' date=' etc.). Earth is just one planet, maybe she does control the dimension already, how would we know? [/quote'] Largely because of the number of other hostile alien races in the universe, whom she would have subdued by now. I can see her making a deal with supers-rich Earth in which she promises to leave the planet alone in return for these powerful people not intervening as she goes after the hostile races on other worlds. Or take the Inexplicable Adventures of Bob approach, in which she comes to view Earth as a nature preserve, technically within her empire but allowed to fend for itself because these humans are so much fun to watch. Her visits to Earth come with popcorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth? Actually, the real answer is that she knows what is going to happen to Earth on 29th February, 2012. Or rather, what Tyrannon and the Space Gods are going to do to Earth on 28th February to prevent that from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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