Pattern Ghost Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 "Work for me or your daughter dies." That Zoom's such a big softy! Maybe they should change his name to Cuddly. Bazza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Except that killing Jesse would guarantee that Wells doesn't help Zoom. And clearly Zoom needs Wells' help or he wouldn't go to such lengths to coerce Wells like this. So Wells should realize by now that Jesse is safe no matter what he does (or doesn't do). She's the only bargaining chip Zoom has, and not a very good one at that. If Zoom was smart, he would let Wells watch her being slowly tortured and then inform Wells that the torture would stop only once he begins helping. As it stands, simply holding her prisoner and making empty threats to kill her is a tactical blunder. It is a threat that has no teeth. Ultimately it makes Zoom look weak because it is a weak play. I think Wells is smart enough to eventually realize this, but he is too paralyzed by fear (for Jesse) to make the intuitive leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Good point, maybe it'd go something like this: Wells: "Aha! I refused to help you! If you harm my daughter, you've lost your only bargaining chip!" Zoom: "Ssso, you won't help me?" Wells: "You'd be a fool to kill my daughter, she's your only bargaining chip!" Zoom: "Well, thiss reality has something called the Hero Games Forum, and I have learned a thing or two!" <Zoom tortures Jesse a bit.> Zoom: "The torture will stop when you start helping advance my plan!" Wells: "Woe is me! If only I had thought that he might start torturing my daughter, I'd have cooperated sooner and saved her the pain!" Oh, wait. Maybe he did think of torture, and wants to cooperate before it gets to that stage. Given Zoom's penchant for being cruel (you know, by doing stuff like breaking Barry's spine and then running all over town waving him around like a rag doll), it's just possible that Wells has been afraid of what may be happening to his daughter all this time, and having seen her unharmed (relatively), he's desperate to keep her that way. Andrew_A and 薔薇語 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 We don't know if Zoom NEEDS Dr. Wells. Only that he has a goal for him. A goal he has been fulfilling with others - Not all of whom are still alive. Dr. Wells has no reason to think he is indispensable, only useful. He obviously didn't worry about Wells when dealing with Garrik. So, Wells says no and then he and his daughter are killed and Zoom moves to plan K. Soar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I was going to mention that, but was too intent on writing my smartypants script. Zoom gets more Speedforce if they fatten Barry up, but if he can't? Light snack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Zoom gets more Speedforce if they fatten Barry up, but if he can't? Light snack. Hey...I resemble that remark. ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Prediction: Wells works on a way to increase Barry's speed, but accidentally gifts Wally instead.... Now Wally, a new speedster, is a lunchable on Zoom's speed force eating menu I could be wrong mind you wcw43921 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 At any rate, it was a fine episode and one that I enjoyed watching. Overall, the CW comic book tv series are better, IMO, than the Netflix ones. I enjoy both, but the CW ones seem more fun to me. Thank you for saying this, I thought I was alone. I've enjoyed Flash and Arrow more than Daredevil and Jessica Jones (Though to be fair, I haven't gone through the last episodes of the latter). It's nice to celebrate the sunshine now and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Prediction: Wells works on a way to increase Barry's speed, but accidentally gifts Wally instead.... Now Wally, a new speedster, is a lunchable on Zoom's speed force eating menu I could be wrong mind you Sounds like an evil plan to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I guess it's just me then, because whenever I see Zoom allowing his victims to negotiate terms (like when Wells kept insisting on having more time to make a decision), he comes across as weak and accomodating. The Zoom that keeps letting Wells stall for time is not the same Zoom that mercilessly broke Barry's spine and paraded his limp body all over Central City. Hmm. Maybe there is more than one person taking on the Zoom persona, one who is ruthless and cunning, and one who is kinder and gentler and willing to give his victims the initiative. Or maybe Zoom is merely being written by multiple writers who aren't on the same page... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 What does Zoom do during his down time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Wonder if they will have Barry trap him inside the speed force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Zoom is Earth 2 Henry Allen. Oliver Queen died on the island and his father became the hood. That means Barry died and his father became Zoom. In Earth 2 reality, Wells helped Barry break the time barrier. But in this one, he refuses to help Henry do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thank you for saying this, I thought I was alone. I've enjoyed Flash and Arrow more than Daredevil and Jessica Jones (Though to be fair, I haven't gone through the last episodes of the latter). It's nice to celebrate the sunshine now and then Well, I've always preferred horror trappings to actual horror and the same for the "dark" comic book themes. Truly dark comic stories come off as nihilistic and depressing. Keep in mind, that I do actually like both Daredevil and Jessica Jones. They are just not as fun as the CW comic series. They tell different stories in bleaker tones. I'd rather have fun than bleak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I enjoyed Daredevil too (not crazy about their take on Fisk, but that was me), but many seemed flabberghasted that I didn't like it as much as Arrow or Flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 For me, I'm enjoying Agents of Shield & Supergirl more than Arrow & Flash, then Daredevil & Jessica Jones. So for enjoyment Network TV then Cable then Netflix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I enjoyed Daredevil too (not crazy about their take on Fisk, but that was me), but many seemed flabberghasted that I didn't like it as much as Arrow or Flash. Everybody's different. I never enjoyed Seinfeld, Friends, Lost, 24, and a whole host of other popular TV series. So, I understand. All else being equal, I prefer some comedy in my drama. So I like Agents of Shield and iZombie a lot. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are very dark, but they're both in their first 13-episode seasons, so I can deal with the darkness and appreciate the rest of the stuff they bring to the table. The Flash is OK -- it's a "good enough" show to me -- but Arrow is tough to take at this point. For the first season or two, I really enjoyed it. But at this point, it's overstayed its welcome. I'm hoping they will bring enough fresh stuff this season to keep me interested, but they keep disappointing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I don't have any love for overly dark, gritty dramas either. But Daredevil and Jessica Jones weren't that dark, they were merely very mature. And the stories they told were told very, very well. The same can't really be said for anything put out on the CW, even though much of the time their shows can still be fun to watch. The thing is, I prefer my lighter entertainment to be well written, which means Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter kick Flash and Arrow and Supergirl all over the place. While Warner Bros may have had a virtual monopoly on well-written animated shows based on the DC properties, Marvel is utterly dominating in the live action space when it comes to the quality of writing and storytelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 While Warner Bros may have had a virtual monopoly on well-written animated shows based on the DC properties, Marvel is utterly dominating in the live action space when it comes to the quality of writing and storytelling. Unless they introduce time travel to the MCU. Then, they're dead to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Unless they introduce time travel to the MCU. Then, they're dead to you. So until the introduction of the Time Stone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Good point. I will be watching what they do with the Time stone very carefully. Marvel has been as guilty as anyone in making a mess of their primary continuity (616) thanks to time travel and history re-writing retcons. But they have a golden opportunity to avoid making that mistake with the MCU. Will they succeed? Only time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I don't have any love for overly dark, gritty dramas either. But Daredevil and Jessica Jones weren't that dark, they were merely very mature. And the stories they told were told very, very well. The same can't really be said for anything put out on the CW, even though much of the time their shows can still be fun to watch. The thing is, I prefer my lighter entertainment to be well written, which means Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter kick Flash and Arrow and Supergirl all over the place. While Warner Bros may have had a virtual monopoly on well-written animated shows based on the DC properties, Marvel is utterly dominating in the live action space when it comes to the quality of writing and storytelling. We had a mind controlling rapist as our main antagonist on Jessica Jones. That's dark to me. Not saying dark can't be written well, but I think it fits the term. Frankly, I think the Flash has incredibly clever dialogue , some excellent acting (Particularly from the guys playing Joe and Wells) and the stories entertain and are told quite well indeed. Suffice to say I think our tastes are drastically different. To each their own Andrew_A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Flash had a mind controlling rapist? Soar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Flash had a mind controlling rapist? Soar. Never said it did. I said on one series.But if you're having trouble figuring out which one, I'll edit and specify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Never said it did. I said on one series.But if you're having trouble figuring out which one, I'll edit and specify. Sorry. That was my confusion. Having not seen any of the online shows I just found myself confused. Soar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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