Christopher R Taylor Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Other than Flash and Arrow, people putting out comic book TV seem terrified that they will seem childish or not grown up enough, so they're afraid to just cut loose and let it be fun. But the success of The Flash - and its huge - should teach execs and creators something about the taste of viewers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Other than Flash and Arrow, people putting out comic book TV seem terrified that they will seem childish or not grown up enough, so they're afraid to just cut loose and let it be fun. But the success of The Flash - and its huge - should teach execs and creators something about the taste of viewers. This was the bane of superhero movies--and tv shows--for decades. Producers wanted to create shows/movies based on superheroes, but didn't want to risk employing all the trappings of superheroes. Which most often resulted in half-assed attempts that bombed because they were half-assed, but they figured it was because no one could take superheroes seriously. Even successful movies (Superman, Batman--the ones from the 70s and 80s) tended have out-of-genre silliness at times. When the first X-Men movie was announced, I was excited--and fearful. Excited because the potential was great, but fearful that they would botch it for the same reason. But they didn't. They took the story/characters seriously, and it worked. Yes, they changed the yellow spandex to black leather and made some other such changes--but there was no winking at the audience to suggest that they were in on the joke. The story was told with a straight face (and began with a scene in a Nazi concentration camp, just to make it perfectly clear that this was a serious tale), and I think that's why the X-Men films worked as well as they did. And it probably helped convince Marvel that the MCU was a feasible concept. As for all the superhero shows airing currently. I very much enjoy The Flash and Supergirl. I enjoyed Daredevil, though not as much. And I fully expect to love Jessica Jones (but then, I've been a fan of the Alias series since I discovered it). I've tried Arrow several times, but I just can't bring myself to care; I only pay attention to the crossovers with Flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 However, something about the team's gadgeteer being able to hand out an IIF device that completely neutralizes a major villain's defining power in every encounter strikes me as either poor writing or poor GMing, depending on the context. The GMs I played with would never have allowed those earbuds to have 100% effectiveness on the next encounter, either by upping Grodd's Mind Control or providing the means by which Grodd could counter the defense, at least enough to make his Mind Control interesting (and useful) again, even if not at complete effectiveness. Again, if it's not something I'd want to see happen in a Champions game, it's not something I'd want to see on tv either. Tv writers shouldn't be worse at this than Champions GMs. Not given how much money is at stake. So power escalation is the answer? Cisco's device is effective, so Grodd gets a power bump. So Cisco invests more points in the earbuds. Grodd gets another powerup. Wash, rinse, repeat. No thanks. No matter how effective the earbuds are, I expect the characters on the show (PC's? Maybe not) will not wear the earbuds 24 hours a day for the rest of their lives just in case Grodd comes back, so they may not have that defense, at least initially, if and when Grodd returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I like both Daredevil and Flash. Flash, a bit of a romp much of the time, and is lighthearted, which is faithful to the source material. Daredevil is not, which is also faithful, at least to the more popular eras of DD. As for mind control and games vs. shows, I'm pretty sure there have been a score of issues of Flash where Flash came up with a variety of one offs to deal with the mind control. They've only been fighting for years. Heck, the 'willpower' answer is always kind of lame. Mind Control is the only power that occasionally gets totally neutralized in comics by 'I try really hard not to be controlled', but that is true to the source material. I actually prefer that the show used the guy who made cold guns, fusion guns, friction resistant suits, etc., to build mental defense. Heck, they're pretty fragile, I'd say that's worth a disadvantage. In most source material, be it sci fi, comics, or Champions, the answer to mind control is often "try hard not to be controlled and be a lead character'. This is the equivalent of Daredevil arm wrestling the Abomination and winning due to an adrenaline rush. But, I will take it, because mind control as a plot device is highly problematic. Mind you, I AM NOT doing the build for any of this. I just want to watch Flash. I loved the scene of Cisco coaching Wells on being evil Wells. It was funny watching the same actor play not being able to play the character he played all last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I don't mind there being a really dark, grim, gritty superhero show or two, I just want them to be appropriate (i.e. Daredevil, not Superman) and I want them to be the exception. Variety and appropriate storytelling is the key, not one monolithic system. Andrew_A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I loved the scene of Cisco coaching Wells on being evil Wells. It was funny watching the same actor play not being able to play the character he played all last season. Yeah, that was fun. "Say it like you really love me--but you're going to kill me anyway." "Yeah, that's it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 ANOTHER SECRET ID REVEAL! KHAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 It was destiny that caused Cisco to slip.... okay, he screwed up, but it sounds better the other way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Pretty bad slip on Cisco's part, but a convenient way to quickly bring Kendra into the inner circle. I'm just wondering when Patty's going to figure out his ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 This crossover "event" feels really clumsy to me. Clumsy in the sense that its sole purpose as the lead-in to Legends of Tomorrow is painfully apparent, and takes me out of the story every step of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 So there was one full on ID reveal that lead to yet another ID reveal plus one "we need to have a talk, Joe!" reveals, too. While I think we take it forgranted that Cisco keeps secrets well, he is not often put into such situations as it was there. He almost always calls Flash by his real name anyway. So a momentary lapse in a relatively private setting right after having his life saved seems acceptable. A bit of a "not again!?!" moment but at least it made some situational sense. The further reveal of Oliver Queen's ID I thought was a bit forced, though. Why not have them stay in costume when dealing with them? But C'est la vie. At least this will be a main story hero and not just some b / c line character like the other reporter. Also, I really did like the reveal of Dr. Wells by the officer (forgot her name for the moment). But I am totally blown away by the fact that there doesn't seem to be any security in STAR labs. Seriously, why don't bums just start moving in at this point? I liked the ingenuity put on display, just not the stupid stick that STAR Labs seems to have been beaten to death with. All in all, I enjoyed the episode. I think it will be a great lead in for Legends of Tomorrow. Soar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Also, I really did like the reveal of Dr. Wells by the officer (forgot her name for the moment). But I am totally blown away by the fact that there doesn't seem to be any security in STAR labs. Seriously, why don't bums just start moving in at this point? I liked the ingenuity put on display, just not the stupid stick that STAR Labs seems to have been beaten to death with. I'm similarly irritated with STAR Labs' "open door" policy. At the start of the season, they even made a point of saying that they beefed up security so people can't just walk in (and then Jay Garrick immediately just walks in). They really need to find that one door that apparently just won't lock, and get the darn thing fixed. I understand that for storytelling purposes they wanted Det. Patty Spivot to shoot Wells-2.0, but a throwaway line ("If you're trying to hide, Dr. Wells, you need to learn to lock doors behind you") would have only taken a few seconds' screen time and easily explains how she got in. (After all, I could see Wells, whose own STAR Labs has staff and security guards to handle petty details like that, not thinking to re-lock the door behind him.) Pattern Ghost and 薔薇語 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yeah, that would have been nice. I still don't think it would have really fixed the issue for me. He knows he needs to be incognito and is hardly that foolish, I would think, but at least it would have given us something. Also, I was really surprised by the Garrik thing, too. At fist I just thought "oh, yeah! Super speed so he can just avoid all conventional and most extraordinary locks" but that obviously isn't the case. It is getting too annoying. They should just put the team out in an open field with a nice sun roof. --I just now noticed there is a show called Vixen on the CW. I have only gotten a bit into it but it seems really nice. http://cwseed.com/shows/vixen/vixen-season-1/?play=24dac429-d147-4492-bbe9-818188019537Soar. BoloOfEarth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 And for something superficial: Those Hawk costumes are the best looking full-on superhero costumes ever seen on television. Also the FX wings were way way better than the previous TV Hawkman could show. Enforcer84, Pattern Ghost and 薔薇語 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I know I harp on it a lot, but this is typical tv writing, and by that I mean you should forget what was established in previous episodes and just enjoy what you see each week in narrative isolation. After all, that's basically what the writers are doing. Hyper-Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 That approach would probably work better if the rest of the storytelling wasn't all linked and sequential. I mean, if each episode was a story to its self in isolation to the rest of the series, OK. But if everything except how his powers work has direct and regular, meticulous continuity... bigbywolfe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yeah, but that's not really the case. As is evident by the ease with which Spivot got into the heart of STARLabs. Or the rigor with which they keep Barry's identity secret. Or the behavior of Garrick. Or... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Flash died in the Crisis. Continuity is nonexistent in the comic, I'm pretty forgiving of it in the show. The show would have to work hard to have less continuity than a comic where the second flash, many decades later, is written to have created the first flash, all revealed after the second flash has died and come back. And the entire world the first flash is from has ceased to exist in the same form. And then the speed force. The speed force could simply be renamed speed midichlorians. That said, I love both the comic and the show. 薔薇語, bigbywolfe and Lord Mhoram 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yeah, but that's not really the case. As is evident by the ease with which Spivot got into the heart of STARLabs. Or the rigor with which they keep Barry's identity secret. Or the behavior of Garrick. Or... There's actually a comment made by Oliver about the (in)security of STAR Labs in the last Arrow--it's one of the reasons that they chose a farmhouse (next to an open field) to protect Hawkgirl and company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I actually enjoyed (the Flash portion of) the crossover event. I didn't bother watching Arrow because...I just don't care about Arrow. I didn't mind the ID reveal. Barry doesn't keep the secret very close to his chest anyhow. I mean, Captain Cold knows who he is. And probably other villains. That ship has sailed. The Man In The Street doesn't know, and that's good enough. I also enjoyed the dialogue (lots of sass) and the way the characters all reacted to one another and to the many revelations. "We know the Flash? Did I know we know the Flash?" "Does that guy know any other way to enter a room!?" "Don't move!" "But then how will I kill you all?" "What are you doing?" "Ending it!" (Yay Speedy!) "If you take another step, I'll shoot." BLAM! (Yay Patty for ACTUALLY following through on a threat far too often uttered and never performed.) And the blond guy with the killer touch. (Who is he?) "I could do this all day." "Whoa! What was THAT?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The blond guy is Damien Darhk. He has a life drain thingie and some telekinetic thingies. He's running Hive on Arrow this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 am i the only one who thinks "Katar Hol" sounds like a Sontaran Battle Chant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'll take your word for it, as I don't know any Sontaran battle chants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 The episodes didn't really do a good job of explaining Savage's origin or why exactly he needs to kill these two to maintain his life force. Yes...we know he has to, but why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.