The Flash

[sinanju]

You can't steal an identity with the other person running around like that.

 

 You can't steal an identity if you blatantly murder your double in front of witnesses "so I can steal your identity!" either. Especially if you leave a body lying around.

 

Maybe she's concerned about Entropic Cascade Failure.

[TheDarkness]

I had that flash when watching the latest episode.

 

I'm not curious about Wells again. I'm still getting the evil vibe from him, but maybe he's not Zoom. Then again, he could be just setting everyone up for a betrayal. The Ferengi say the sharper the smile, the sharper the knife. There's a Pacific/Indian ocean tribe that used to revere traitors who first "fattened" their victims with friendship.

I think what I like about the Earth-2 Wells is he isn't fattening them up for the feast, whether he's good or evil. The Earth-1 Wells was good at telling everyone exactly what they needed to hear in a way they admired. This one clearly cannot edit his own thoughts, he says whatever he thinks is the case, whether it's right to do so or not.

[FrankL]

I think what I like about the Earth-2 Wells is he isn't fattening them up for the feast, whether he's good or evil. The Earth-1 Wells was good at telling everyone exactly what they needed to hear in a way they admired. This one clearly cannot edit his own thoughts, he says whatever he thinks is the case, whether it's right to do so or not.

So E2 Wells is Donald Trump.

[Andrew_A]

So E2 Wells is Donald Trump.

 

No, he's Tony Stark, without Stark's charm.

Which is understandable, given that his daughter is a prisoner of Zoom.

 

[BoloOfEarth]

Maybe the killing of their Earth-1 counterparts is because the Earth-2 villains have all seen Highlander.  "There can be only one!"

 

Having re-watched the latest episode, I'm kinda liking Wells 2.0 - good writing and acting for him, IMO.  The up-front dickishness works well in this case.  And the whole thing makes me wonder -- if Thawne hadn't killed Wells and taken his place, the particle accelerator accident would have likely still happened, but maybe Wells wouldn't have been a mentor at all to Barry.  Maybe he'd have just been a self-centered know-it-all prick.

[薔薇語]

That may be true, Bolo. That said, I think we know as a matter of canonical fact that E-1 Dr. Wells created the accelerator and it caused the rise of metas. Thawne didn't change this fact, just sped it up so he could get Barry to start accessing the Speed Force in what was left of his lifespan. Otherwise he would have to wait another several years; I forget the number of years (5 to 20 extra). 

Foreign Orchid. 

[Hugh Neilson]

As a point of order, why did E1 Wells vanish when Eddie killed himself?  Eddie was Thawne's ancestor.  If Thawne never existed, he would not have offed E1 Wells, who would have proceeded onwards.  Of course, if Thawne did not take over E1 Wells, Flash should not exist yet anyway.  Time Travel tends to fall apart when looked at too closely.

[薔薇語]

It is because of Timey Whimy particles splish splashing in the Continuity vortex. Lucky the absolute nature of the Fixed variable death on Wells' part with the random non-fixed and tangental force of RF was able to self compensate and correct until demarked time point Z, where Z was the death of Thawne. So it actually makes perfect sense. I don't get what is so hard. 

SOAR. 

[TheDarkness]

As a point of order, why did E1 Wells vanish when Eddie killed himself?  Eddie was Thawne's ancestor.  If Thawne never existed, he would not have offed E1 Wells, who would have proceeded onwards.  Of course, if Thawne did not take over E1 Wells, Flash should not exist yet anyway.  Time Travel tends to fall apart when looked at too closely.

 

Stephen Hawkings wrote a short essay a long time back explaining that, according to his understanding, there was nothing to prevent you from going back in time to kill your grandfather before your father was conceived. And succeeding.

 

He hated that there was nothing he could find to prevent it(other than the whole traveling through time bit), but he said that, according to his understanding, there was nothing to stop it.

[Beast]

the flow of time just had to continue ,paradoxs be damned

As a point of order, why did E1 Wells vanish when Eddie killed himself?  Eddie was Thawne's ancestor.  If Thawne never existed, he would not have offed E1 Wells, who would have proceeded onwards.  Of course, if Thawne did not take over E1 Wells, Flash should not exist yet anyway.  Time Travel tends to fall apart when looked at too closely.

[SKJAM!]

It was Mopee, the Heavenly Helper, working behind the scenes.  

[zslane]

The way I see it, a new continuity is formed the moment a time traveler enters the time stream at some point in the past. Eobard existed (disguised as Wells) as an entity with his own mass and consciousness and ability to exist independent of his birth origin from the continuity he came from. Eddie killing himself should have had no impact on Evil Wells at all. That connection was effectively broken the moment Eobard created his new continuity upon emerging back into the E1 timestream 15 years ago. But the writers wanted to eat their cake and have it too. They wanted to cash in on everyone's love of time travel mechanics from beloved movies such as Back to the Future, even though they don't hold up to any sort of rigorous intellectual scrutiny.

 

This is why I knew I would dislike The Flash on some level no matter how good everything else was. Time travel is guaranteed to make no sense whatsoever, and guaranteed to be the weak link in the plotting of the show. It ruined Heroes, and it is an albatross around the neck of The Flash too. I realize that time travel is a traditional element of the character, but that doesn't make it any more palatable, especially given how poorly it is always handled.

[Starlord]

The way I see it, a new continuity is formed the moment a time traveler enters the time stream at some point in the past. Eobard existed (disguised as Wells) as an entity with his own mass and consciousness and ability to exist independent of his birth origin from the continuity he came from. Eddie killing himself should have had no impact on Evil Wells at all. That connection was effectively broken the moment Eobard created his new continuity upon emerging back into the E1 timestream 15 years ago. But the writers wanted to eat their cake and have it too. They wanted to cash in on everyone's love of time travel mechanics from beloved movies such as Back to the Future, even though they don't hold up to any sort of rigorous intellectual scrutiny.

 

 

This is essentially how it should work IMO, and also if they remove Thawne from existence nobody (except maybe Cisco, due to his power) should have remembered him.

[BoloOfEarth]

They wanted to cash in on everyone's love of time travel mechanics from beloved movies such as Back to the Future, even though they don't hold up to any sort of rigorous intellectual scrutiny.

 

I'd venture to say that a vast majority of the superhuman stuff in a typical comic book universe won't hold up to any sort of rigorous intellectual scrutiny.

 

I'm reminded of an argument between the GM and a player in a Champions game.  The player had tripped a foe running super-fast, and was using physics to argue that the foe should have slammed face first into the ground at effectively terminal velocity.  Eventually the GM pointed out, "Your character creates wind blasts out of a wooden staff.  Please, use physics to explain to me how that works."

[TheDarkness]

Comic book storylines that have existed for more than ten years, with or without time travel, have equal or less continuity than time travel stories.

[Starlord]

From last night:

 

Bad:  ANOTHER secret id reveal

Good:  Zoom is a BADASS!

[薔薇語]

I agree with you quite a bit. Seriously, everyone is going to know Barry is the Flash before this season is up. Also, what was up with putting that woman in danger? They had no idea what could come from doing that and it was foolish at best. I think Joe was completely right to be questioning what Barry was doing. The Free Fall idea made me happy, too. It showed that Barry was smart and that some physics still apply in this world. ^^

I wonder what will come of the Zoom storyline this season. He has been quite compelling so far and I really liked his show of force on the last one. 

 

SOAR. 

[Hermit]

Ok. Linda's training session was hilarious. 

 

Interesting intro to Jesse Quick

 

I agree too many people (Two of them reporters no less) know about Barry's ID now.

 

Freefall fight, yay!

 

Zoom plays mean, and he knows the effect of marketing. Damn, that was some Achilles dragging Hector stuff there.

 

Heck of a cliffhanger...

[Andrew_A]

Both Linda and Iris know Barry's ID in the comics. At least they're being true to the source material.

[zslane]

I agree Zoom is an absolutely chilling villain. I approve. And next week we'll see more Grodd!

 

I also agree that Linda should never have been used to try and lure Zoom out of the breach. That was criminally negligent.

 

And freefall being used as an equalizer? That only works in a world where physics aren't violated in comic-booky ways on a regular basis. Somehow the Flash can generate enough friction to run up the funnel of an energy vortex and over the surface of water. I'm sure speed gods like Zoom and Flash could maintain full speed on air too.

 

I'm liking Spivot more and more each episode though.

[Hermit]

Spivot is definitely seeming a better romantic match for Barry than Iris or Linda on this show

 

(And Joe should count himself lucky to have a partner like that too)

[Pattern Ghost]

Grodd's coming back? Cool. I want to see him decide that Team Flash aren't a bad bunch . . . for humans. Then turn them all into gorillas.

[Starlord]

I wanted a Gorilla City.  

[BoloOfEarth]

Grodd's coming back? Cool.

 

Is Grodd the gorilla your dreams?   (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

I'm rather liking Ms. Spivot as well.

 

As to Barry and the secret ID thing, they've shown repeatedly that he's really bad at that.  It's practically a running gag. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvrDeHpqHS0

[Pattern Ghost]

I wanted a Gorilla City.  

 

It could still be doable. They never said where they got Grodd from. Maybe some Gorilla City mom turned her back on him when he was a baby for just a minute while she was talking on her Gorilla Phone and some poachers swiped him and sold him for experiments...