Christopher R Taylor Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 That's a great analysis of the way the movies played out -- I haven't seen Wonder Woman or JL yet, so I can't comment on them specifically, but his analysis of the numbers, arc of sales, and the background to Justice League's release all make sense of what has gone so wrong for DC. I like his recommendations as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 No spoilers--JL was pretty good. It wasn't WW good, but it was good. A little predictable, maybe. Tonally I'd say there was an upward trend. Certainly there was no branding. assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armory Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 I'd agree, JL was pretty good. The humor fell a bit flat at times, but the attempt was there. I will say I'm glad I saw Ragnarok after Justice League, else my opinion of it would probably be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 15 hours ago, Old Man said: No spoilers--JL was pretty good. It wasn't WW good, but it was good. A little predictable, maybe. Tonally I'd say there was an upward trend. Certainly there was no branding. Unfortunately for WB/DC, they needed JL to be more than just "pretty good". They needed it to be so loved that it became a knocked-out-of-the-park sensation akin to the first Avengers movie, and that simply did not happen. I think it's safe to say that was never going to happen given the way the movie was produced, and so it was pretty much doomed from the start (in terms of achieving the goals set for it by the studio). bigdamnhero 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 Yeah I think that guy in the video kind of overstates how badly the film is doing, but it is a concern for WB and DC. I hope this does result in a big shuffle and reorganization of the team and a change in focus, but who knows how the internal politics work. My fear is that they'll go a different, but really stupid direction like the Batman TV series. They really wanted this to be a huge money making winner, but they didn't need it to be (in the sense of now the company is doomed and they can/will make no more DC comics films). Its just a major setback and the video guy hit it right on the head of the nail: DC comics movies have left such a bad taste in the mouth of viewers that they have to rehabilitate the entire brand, yes including Batman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, zslane said: Unfortunately for WB/DC, they needed JL to be more than just "pretty good". They needed it to be so loved that it became a knocked-out-of-the-park sensation akin to the first Avengers movie, and that simply did not happen. I think it's safe to say that was never going to happen given the way the movie was produced, and so it was pretty much doomed from the start (in terms of achieving the goals set for it by the studio). I get what you're trying to say, but my "review" was mainly aimed at the three or four people who posted that they hadn't seen it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 49 minutes ago, Old Man said: I get what you're trying to say, but my "review" was mainly aimed at the three or four people who posted that they hadn't seen it yet. That includes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 I'll also add that JL was pretty good...and the first meeting of Flash and Superman is one coolest/funniest moments in superhero movie history IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Yeah I think that guy in the video kind of overstates how badly the film is doing, but it is a concern for WB and DC. : They really wanted this to be a huge money making winner, but they didn't need it to be (in the sense of now the company is doomed and they can/will make no more DC comics films). I don't think he overstates matters when he describes JL's performance of under $94M for the opening weekend as an unmitigated disaster. Remember, he means that in the context of WB/DC's goals and expectations for the franchise. WB/DC needed it to be a huge money making winner in order to view the DCEU as a viable property worth pouring any more money into (apart from Aquaman and Wonder Woman 2). You're right, WB/DC is not financially doomed because of JL's woeful underperformance at the box office, but the DCEU as we know it today probably is. It also doesn't help that the whole Batman branch of this is in chaos with nobody quite knowing what's going to happen with that, not even Matt Reeves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 Well I guess Cassandra was mostly right. But did anyone listen? Nooooo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 38 minutes ago, Bazza said: Well I guess Cassandra was mostly right. But did anyone listen? Nooooo. It’s almost like there should be a syndrome for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 "A fake fortuneteller can be tolerated. But an authentic soothsayer should be shot on sight. Cassandra did not get half the kicking around she deserved." -- Lazarus Long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: My fear is that they'll go a different, but really stupid direction like the Batman TV series. The Batman TV series was genius. WB movie studio isn't capable of replicating it. Starlord, assault and mrinku 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 24 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said: The Batman TV series was genius. WB movie studio isn't capable of replicating it. Well, the WB Animation Studios were willing to give it a try: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Ternaugh said: Well, the WB Animation Studios were willing to give it a try: That one's on my list. Shoot, now that I say that, I realized that I should have literally put it on my Christmas list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Batman: The Brave and the Bold was kind of light hearted stuff as well. Silver age Batman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 The problem isn't the animated DC productions. They've consistently put out quality product even in some the edgier movies. Even Teen Titans Go! is truer to the spirit of the source material than most of the DCEU. If they let that creative staff have control of the movie stories they might have a chance to turn this ship around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 13 hours ago, bigdamnhero said: It’s almost like there should be a syndrome for that... I think you mean a curse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Bazza said: I think you mean a curse. Per Wikipedia: Quote The Cassandra metaphor (variously labelled the Cassandra 'syndrome', 'complex', 'phenomenon', 'predicament', 'dilemma', or 'curse') occurs when valid warnings or concerns are dismissed or disbelieved. So take your pick I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 "Box Office Mojo" gives "Justice League" $572 million dollars taken in about a month of release. Not as good as Warners may have expected, but not bad.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 21 hours ago, Bazza said: Well I guess Cassandra was mostly right. But did anyone listen? Nooooo. Yes , but that was because she gave old Apollo the bums rush when he tried to put the hard word on her and, being a vindictive so and so (like most of the Greek gods) he cursed her so that she wouldn't be believed. Bazza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 42 minutes ago, st barbara said: "Box Office Mojo" gives "Justice League" $572 million dollars taken in about a month of release. Not as good as Warners may have expected, but not bad.. Actually, it is quite bad given that there is virtually no way JL will break even from its theatrical run. There is a formula that, given the opening weekend box office results, will predict the overall revenue for a film to an uncanny degree of accuracy. The $94M opening number pretty much guarantees that JL will not make back its production and advertising costs until years from now after all its ancillary revenue has rolled in (home video, streaming, toys/games, etc.). That makes it difficult to bankroll the next round of films in the slate which need financing secured in 2018. The failure to hit it big with JL will have enormous repercussions within WB/DC. It screws them (and their plans) in ways that folks who have never been involved in the industry--and feature film financing in particular--can't begin to imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 I suspect that Justice League won't do terrific overseas (characters people don't know, property they aren't familiar with etc) but it probably will do pretty well with streaming and blu-ray sales. Still, this is not what Warner/DC was hoping for. They wanted a billion+ sales tentpole. The video does a good job of explaining why that didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 2 hours ago, bigdamnhero said: Per Wikipedia: So take your pick I guess. Per Wikipedia, trying to find better source: "Cassandra or Kassandra (Ancient Greek: Κασσάνδρα, pronounced [kas̚sándra], also Κασάνδρα), also known as Alexandra, was a daughter of King Priam and of Queen Hecuba of Troy in Greek mythology. Cassandra was cursed to speak true prophecies that no one believed. A common version of her story relates how, in an effort to seduce her, Apollo gave her the power of prophecy: when she refused him, he spat into her mouth to inflict a curse that nobody would ever believe her prophecies." As said, trying to find a better source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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