Black Panther with spoilers

[RDU Neil]

I'm pretty sure Eric's actual agenda was "Burn it all"

[Lord Liaden]

His burning of the sacred herbs certainly looked like a "No kings after me!" moment.

 

In a way Killmonger reminds me of Magneto. For all his advocacy of a cause that's selfless in principle -- and which he's convinced himself he believes in -- it's really all about him, his ego and his pain.

[zslane]

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

T'Chaka killed his brother (N'Jobu) because he was about to kill the man who reported him.

 

It is hard for me to believe that T'Chaka's only move in defense of Zuri's father was a death blow.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Dude.  They have a character named N'Jobu?
 

 

 

[Bazza]

Box Office: 'Black Panther' Becomes Top-Grossing Superhero Film of All Time in U.S.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/box-office-black-panther-becomes-top-grossing-superhero-film-all-time-us-1097101

[Starlord]

Gee, I wonder if they'll make a sequel.

[zslane]

WB had similar success, in terms of social impact and critical acceptance, with Wonder Woman, but then squandered it with their handling of her character in Justice League. I guarantee you that Marvel won't make the same mistake when Black Panther appears in their next big team movie (Infinity War). Marvel is untouchable right now. Even when they stumble a bit and make something less than stellar (Thor 2, Inhumans, Iron Fist), they always come back with something staggeringly popular and rewrite the record books.

 

The MCU is an astonishing accomplishment as a mega-franchise. But I'm curious; to what extent has it reached into the gaming market? Are there any MCU-licensed video games, board games, or RPGs?

[Lord Liaden]

To my knowledge everything gaming-related Marvel has licensed right now is derived from the comics. There have been computer RPGs based on some individual movie properties -- I can remember Captain America and Thor in particular, using some of the movie voice actors -- but they weren't very well received by either the Marvel fan or gaming communities. I don't think the board game or tabletop RPG market is a priority for Disney currently. Not a large enough market nowadays compared to electronic avenues.

[Pariah]

On 3/23/2018 at 7:32 AM, Lord Liaden said:

In a way Killmonger reminds me of Magneto. For all his advocacy of a cause that's selfless in principle -- and which he's convinced himself he believes in -- it's really all about him, his ego and his pain.

 

I can definitely see the parallels. In fact, I think Killmonger was better executed than any cinematic version of Magneto I've seen.

[Bazza]

16 hours ago, Starlord said:

Gee, I wonder if they'll make a sequel.

 

Marvel Studio's chief has stated it is something they want to do. 

[Starlord]

Yes sir, that was sarcasm.

[Lord Liaden]

I suspect Bazza got that. Or maybe his reflexes just aren't as fast as Drax's.

[Bazza]

As an Aussie I am fluent in sarcasm. It is a common way Aussies speak to each other as friends. 

 

But it often doesn't translate well on a medium missing its context. Like Drax, it could be taken literally. 

[Pariah]

Drax could be a kleptomaniac. He takes everything literally.

[Matt the Bruins]

On 3/24/2018 at 11:01 AM, Starlord said:

Gee, I wonder if they'll make a sequel.

Silly, everyone knows movies with principally black casts are a small niche market. Factor in the diminishing returns of a sequel, and there'd be no point! Why, it'd be lucky to make half a billion dollars in domestic ticket sales! 

[Cancer]

Saw it this evening for the first time.  Enjoyed it.  Completely unfamiliar with the characters and story prior to watching the movie, I admit.

[Old Man]

Honestly, as a super, Black Panther is kind of boring—another enhanced human with some limited gadgeteering support. Powers-wise, he’s not a whole lot different from Spidey, Cap, or even Beast. As a character, though, he’s fascinating. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

That's the key to creating new characters.  New power sets are not very interesting, with a kabillion superheroes and villains out there already.  An interesting personality is good, but only really  holds your attention while they are doing things or interacting with people.  But a big mystery, and interesting background, those go a long ways.  

 

And the focus has to be on the character, not what you're trying to accomplish with the character.  In other words, the character and the story should be your goal, not some other thing like righting some great injustice, making a statement, or selling books.  This is the biggest reason why new characters so often struggle.  I mean the last really great, successful, and interesting new character that's come out of comic books is what, Deadpool, 20 years ago or more?  And when at first, he was just another boring Liefeld type guy with a sword.  It wasn't until someone took him into a better direction and gave him life that he became really good.

[zslane]

11 hours ago, Old Man said:

Honestly, as a super, Black Panther is kind of boring—another enhanced human with some limited gadgeteering support. Powers-wise, he’s not a whole lot different from Spidey, Cap, or even Beast. As a character, though, he’s fascinating. 

 

Well, Black Panther was originally conceived as Marvel's version of Batman. Obviously he has evolved away from that conception considerably and is now more like Captain Africa.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, that depends on how "original" you want to go. Black Panther as he first appeared in Fantastic Four in the mid-Sixties was more along the lines of pulpish "jungle" heroes like the Phantom, although him being a black African was certainly ground-breaking. At that time Batman himself wasn't like the Batman we have today. Marvel's much more explicit version of the modern Batman used to be Moon Knight, but the Panther evolved to take on more of the aspects of Batman in his skill set and weaponry (and wealth, of course). BP's stories in the Nineties and this millennium started to emphasize his nationality and culture more.

[Matt the Bruins]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I mean the last really great, successful, and interesting new character that's come out of comic books is what, Deadpool, 20 years ago or more?

I'd say the new Ms. Marvel is well on her way to getting there. And Superboy/Jon Kent is showing that sort of potential, though it's too soon to tell as yet. (Bendis could easily deep-six his future with some too-gritty story that either fridges him for drama or turns him into a sarcastic, rebellious antihero because isn't that what all teenagers are like these days? And get off my lawn!)

[RDU Neil]

If you at talking the last 20 years, well Jessica Jones is clearly one of the most original characters to come out of the Big 2 comic universes... being not just a "new version" of an older character (don't get me wrong, I love Kamala Kahn but Ms. Marvel wasn't a brand new character), and one of most original personalities, ever.

 

The problem with mainstream supers characters, is that writers aren't encouraged to come up with new characters, because they won't own the rights to them. More creative characters are going to be in creator controlled books.

 

And, FYI, at this point, Deadpool was 1991, so we are talking almost 30 years, actually... and the other big character that was original back then, was Gaiman's Sandman, from a very different perspective.

 

On the edge of 20 years... Jenny Sparks and Jack Hawksmoor, the Doctor, Swift, the Engineer. All really good characters that were about as original as supers can get these days. Apollo and Midnighter were exceptionally well done versions of Supes and Batman of course (so power concept wise, not original), but their relationship and personalities were really strong.

 

Have to think more on this, as these just sprang to mind, in thinking about the past two decades of supers.

 

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, zslane said:

 

Well, Black Panther was originally conceived as Marvel's version of Batman.

 

I thought that was Moon Knight. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I guess Jessica Jones kind of qualifies, although only because of the TV show -- Black Panther was a well liked and respected character enough to show up in the Avengers comics several times, be a hot guest star, and he was a part of the team in the animated series.  Jones is pretty new and I had honestly never heard of the character until the show.  Jessica who??

 

The sales of current comics are so anemic that its hard to judge a successful new character, but they aren't generating a lot of interest.  So I can't really say that any of Marvel's latest batch are remotely successful on the level of previous big and interesting characters.

[massey]

Finally saw this movie.  When I first heard they were making a Black Panther film, I was excited to see it.  I really liked the character in Civil War, and wanted to see more of him.  Then I saw the previews, and they just hit every wrong note with me.  I wanted to see it much, much less.  Then I heard the reviews, and most of what I heard also made me want to see it less.  Everything I read talked about how "important" the movie was, because it had a primarily black cast, black director, etc.  Telling me that a movie is "important" is a good way to guarantee I will not watch it.

 

But on Saturday, I took my 12 year old nephew to see it.  He was super excited to watch it, and since I normally take him to the Marvel movies, I took him to this one.

 

Overall I was pleased.  I liked this movie.  It felt like the Lion King meets James Bond.  Favorite character was M'Baku.  I thought he was supposed to be the villain (I've stayed away from most spoilers), and was surprised when he turned out to be a more heroic character.  But I thought they handled him pretty well, and the actor did a great job of making him charismatic and entertaining.  Killmonger was kind of a throw-away villain.  He's clearly a badass, and I understood his motivation.  The actor did a good job.  But it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to live past the first movie, and since you never figure out who he is until the third act, you don't really become emotionally invested in him.

 

A few small criticisms:  First, too much CGI neon.  Wakanda stops looking like a real place (or even a fantastical place like Asgard) and starts looking like a computer game.  I know that's the style these days, but too many glowing energy fields pull me out of the film.  Second, that new suit seems to make him really freakin' powerful.  Probably too powerful.  For somebody I mentally put on par with Cap and Bucky, now he seems Iron Man grade durable or more.  Like a martial artist character who bought 40 PD and ED.  Third, I am not completely sold on his sister the super-inventor.  She's obviously fairly young, and she's supposed to have invented a lot of Wakandan tech?  But... haven't they always been really advanced?  I think they said she invented the energy fields that allowed the vibranium trains to run.  What did they do before her?  And maybe they just needed to give her some more technobabble, because she still just comes across as a girl in her early 20s to me, and not a super-genius.  We are told that she's super-smart, we aren't shown it.

 

But generally I liked the movie.  It wasn't Ant Man or Guardians of the Galaxy, but I put it above Thor 2 or the Iron Man sequels.