Cheesy-munchkiny builds you've seen?

[BoloOfEarth]

4 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

As opposed to "hey, let's have a guy grow big feathered wings and be able to fly - we'll call him Angel"?

 

Yeah, IMO Angel was not a great character concept.

[Hugh Neilson]

As seen on another thread recently, using 10 point Fixed slots in one, or multiple, Multipowers to simulate most of the benefits of variable slots at half the cost.

[Lord Liaden]

30 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

Yeah, IMO Angel was not a great character concept.

 

Wings would be a wonderful thing for a person to have. Imagine being able to soar like a bird under your own power. But for fighting supervillains, not so much. When he was transformed into Archangel, though, that was a different matter. MCU Falcon adopted some of that concept of wings as shield and weapon.

[dsatow]

On 1/9/2020 at 10:52 AM, Cassandra said:

Which came first, Dazzler or Xanadu?

 

Dazzler = Feb 1980

Xanadu = Aug 1980

Bedazzler = 1970s!  <--  Winner!

[Vanguard]

On 1/8/2020 at 10:05 PM, Cassandra said:

Dazzler can only use her powers if they is sound for her to convert to light, although she does carry a radio with her

 

Sounds a little Vanya Hargreeves from Umbrella Academy.

 

'cept she could cheese it far enough to use the sound of her own heartbeat to power her abilities.

 

On 1/8/2020 at 10:16 AM, ScottishFox said:

One of the guys at my FH table made a polearm master with a triggered HTH attack that I had to limit to 1x per phase initially (eventually allowed 2x later in the campaign).  It is very strong.

 

 

Triggers, as far as I'm aware (don't use 'em that often) only work once and then need a turn (or more) to reset before working again.  They can be purchased as having a Zero phase reset but then the character would still need a phase to reset the trigger.  So, by my understanding of the rules, that polearms master would get 1 counter strike and then be done till at least his next phase where he could reset the trigger. . . . 

 

Again, I could be wrong as I've very seldom used triggers.  If I am, please disregard.

[Ninja-Bear]

2 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

Sounds a little Vanya Hargreeves from Umbrella Academy.

 

'cept she could cheese it far enough to use the sound of her own heartbeat to power her abilities.

 

 

Triggers, as far as I'm aware (don't use 'em that often) only work once and then need a turn (or more) to reset before working again.  They can be purchased as having a Zero phase reset but then the character would still need a phase to reset the trigger.  So, by my understanding of the rules, that polearms master would get 1 counter strike and then be done till at least his next phase where he could reset the trigger. . . . 

 

Again, I could be wrong as I've very seldom used triggers.  If I am, please disregard.

Vanguard you can make a trigger 0phase to reset (or is that no time?) however it gets expensive. , as it should.

[Vanguard]

4 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Vanguard you can make a trigger 0phase to reset (or is that no time?) however it gets expensive. , as it should.

 

::nods:: But doesn't the character have to reset it?

[Surrealone]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:10 PM, Ninja-Bear said:

And I’d suggest this is why certain rules where changed over the editions. The biggest probably is in 4th Endurance went from ACT/5 to ACT/10. Also the base assumption for Characters in fourth is now 250 Points. I believe this move (which is continued through 5th/6th) is so you can create characters with more of an eye to create character concept than point efficiency.

You seem to suggest that it's an either/or scenario when, in reality, one can very readily create a character with an eye toward both concept AND efficiency.  This was rather the point of the Goodman School of Cost Effectiveness blurbs -- i.e. They reminded players building to concept not to forget about efficiency.

[Hugh Neilson]

9 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

::nods:: But doesn't the character have to reset it?

 

You can buy it down to automatically resetting.  Resets automatically immediately after activating adds +1/2.

[Vanguard]

Just now, Hugh Neilson said:

 

You can buy it down to automatically resetting.  Resets automatically immediately after activating adds +1/2.

 

Huh. Learn something new every day.

 

Has that always been there and I just missed it?  'Cause I'm thinking I just missed it.

[Ninja-Bear]

9 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

::nods:: But doesn't the character have to reset it?

You can pay more for the advantage to have it reset automatically.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ninja-Bear

[Ninja-Bear]

Hugh best me to it. To be fair Vanguard I’ve only new about the reset since  5th. I’m going to say off hand no it wasn’t always allowed. But I could be wrong.

[Ninja-Bear]

Well if you thought Flying Dodge is cheesy, then let me present to you the Koragi style ninjitsu (UMA 4th) with the Cricket Choke gold. A choke hold with the FMove element. But wait there’s more cheese. The Cricket Escape! A martial Escape with the FMove element!

[Sean Waters]

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

[BoloOfEarth]

6 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

 

With a trigger or "just before taking damage," I'd expect it would only go off if the user was aware of the incoming attack (and thus knew he could be taking damage), so a surprise or invisible attack should still get through.  But yes, this seems to have a high Cheese Factor.

 

Also, loved the Monty Python reference.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

9 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

Unbelievably enough, this was a published PC-facing example power in the Mutants and Masterminds 3e Power Profiles book. 

[dsatow]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:37 AM, Sean Waters said:

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

 

I wouldn't accept that as a trigger since the trigger needs a commonly used sense available to the player to trigger (6e1p350).  in other words, the player doesn't know if he will take damage or not unless he has precognition.  A better solution would be imminent threat or attack. If he's about to get hit by something (whether the attack succeeds to hit him or doesn't) he would teleport.  Thus, they would teleport at first sign of being attacked, so in that build, not just AoE but surprise attacks and attacks he couldn't sense coming to him (such as being flashed and then attacked) would also affect him.

[Duke Bushido]

2 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

I wouldn't accept that as a trigger since the trigger needs a commonly used sense available to the player to trigger (6e1p350).  in other words, the player doesn't know if he will take damage or not unless he has precognition.  A better solution would be imminent threat or attack. If he's about to get hit by something (whether the attack succeeds to hit him or doesn't) he would teleport.  Thus, they would teleport at first sign of being attacked, so in that build, not just AoE but surprise attacks and attacks he couldn't sense coming to him (such as being flashed and then attacked) would also affect him.

 

I _love_ where you're going with this, but I am of two minds on your solutions:

 

Most of my says "No; I think I would simply say "no" and then explain both why it was too "cheesy" as well as the ramifications (as you just described above).  Mostly because I want to go ahead and have all the characters built and ready to play on game night, and not have to have a separate session of character gen again later for the one guy who decides "well that didn't work at all like I thought it would."  Though I confess, the idea of "throwing it back at him" in play is _so_ cathartic....  

 

 

Then there's the little bit of me that's saying "I'd mandate a blind teleport as response to a Flash, just as a panicked "I am about to be attacked!" reaction.  

 

 

 

 

[Lucius]

Trigger Sense:  (Total: 44 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Clairsentience (Touch And Sight Groups), Perceive into a single other dimension (Immediate future: 1 phase ahead), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4) (44 Active Points); Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Limited Power Only for Trigger (-1) (Real Cost: 15)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to buy Roy Rogers on a Trigger

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

Dude...

 

Danger Sense linked to Retrocognition would be _hillarious_!  

 

 

[massey]

On 1/14/2020 at 2:37 AM, Sean Waters said:

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

 

I'd just say it doesn't do anything against ranged attacks.  Attackers don't target a hex unless it's Area of Effect.  With ranged attacks, if I hit your DCV, then I hit your DCV.  Triggered movement doesn't do anything unless it somehow moved you out of LOS, or into a longer range bracket. 

[Sean Waters]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:53 PM, dsatow said:

 

I wouldn't accept that as a trigger since the trigger needs a commonly used sense available to the player to trigger (6e1p350).  in other words, the player doesn't know if he will take damage or not unless he has precognition.  A better solution would be imminent threat or attack. If he's about to get hit by something (whether the attack succeeds to hit him or doesn't) he would teleport.  Thus, they would teleport at first sign of being attacked, so in that build, not just AoE but surprise attacks and attacks he couldn't sense coming to him (such as being flashed and then attacked) would also affect him.

 

I see the sense, but this is a cheese fest

 

To counter your counter, if you build a pressure mine, it does not have 'sense a certain amount of pressure' as a sense and even if, for some reason, the character who pays character points for it can't sense pressure, it still works.

 

Even if you did require that the attack is somehow sensed by the target, other than surprise attacks it is usually assumed that characters in combat can sense the attack unless they are subject to a power that means they can't, which is not that common.

 

You could always buy danger sense (only for defensive actions).  I doubt anyone would have a problem if you bought +1 DCV (only if danger sensed).  I mean you can fail the DS roll, but even so, its still ludicrously powerful.

 

Other than that, carry on

 

[Sean Waters]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:13 AM, massey said:

 

I'd just say it doesn't do anything against ranged attacks.  Attackers don't target a hex unless it's Area of Effect.  With ranged attacks, if I hit your DCV, then I hit your DCV.  Triggered movement doesn't do anything unless it somehow moved you out of LOS, or into a longer range bracket. 

 

None of us target hexes anymore, Massey, in the brave new world of 6e...

 

I mean, I do, but I'm doing it wrong

 

Also I'm pretty sure that triggered movement does work against ranged attacks.  I think there was a discussion about Flying Dodge which confirmed that it did (or could).  I mean you might be right and need to have the TP take you behind cover or out of range, but it could still work.  There's usually some cover within a short distance on most battlefields.

 

There's all sorts of other powers it could work with too: Invisibility and Desolid being obvious ones.  Much more expensive but if you allow naked advantages and have the power anyway, it doesn't cost that much.

[massey]

4 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

 

None of us target hexes anymore, Massey, in the brave new world of 6e...

 

I mean, I do, but I'm doing it wrong

 

Also I'm pretty sure that triggered movement does work against ranged attacks.  I think there was a discussion about Flying Dodge which confirmed that it did (or could).  I mean you might be right and need to have the TP take you behind cover or out of range, but it could still work.  There's usually some cover within a short distance on most battlefields.

 

There's all sorts of other powers it could work with too: Invisibility and Desolid being obvious ones.  Much more expensive but if you allow naked advantages and have the power anyway, it doesn't cost that much.

 

I know the official word is that Flying Dodge prevents a ranged attack from hitting.  I think they said Dive For Cover did as well.  I just think those are terrible ideas.

[dsatow]

6 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

To counter your counter, if you build a pressure mine, it does not have 'sense a certain amount of pressure' as a sense and even if, for some reason, the character who pays character points for it can't sense pressure, it still works.

 

Actually, almost everyone has the sense used.  The sense is touch.