Gaming Supplements

[Steve]

I've been considering trying my hand at writing game supplement materials for publication, but I'm not sure what would be most helpful/wanted to people so decided to try a poll here to get a sense of public opinion from my fellow Hero fans.

 

Feel free to explain your reasons for choosing one of the items.

 

Thanks!

[Tjack]

   I chose Settings because I think it’s the first step in creating a game.  
  NPC’s and adventures are only useful for the particular type of game they’re made for.  Ones created for modern day superhero games aren’t very useful in a fantasy game and neither can do much for a Cyberpunk or Espionage one.

  New rules books are only needed to describe the world you’ve already decided to play in.  You don’t buy Western Hero to play in the 1930’s or to do a game set in the Far Future.

  But creating a new and original setting that can fire the imagination of a potential new player of that game will generate the need for materials to help a GM with the hardware (rules) and software (NPC’s & Adventures) to build that game world for years to come.

[Lord Liaden]

While my personal preference is setting books because I love worlds, I chose adventures because that's what I read nearly everyone on this forum clamoring for.

[Grailknight]

I chose Settings books but what I envision is really a mixture of 2-4.

 

Fourth edition had the right idea here. Most of those settings had a regional or organizational focus but included notable NPC's, heroes and villains(individuals and teams) and an adventure and several adventure seeds. Get a copy of Champions of the North for Fourth edition or any Pathfinder Adventure Path and use that as your template. Vary the ratios of background info, NPC's and plots as best fits but give your audience some of each with each product.

[Ninja-Bear]

I voted adventures. I find for myself that is the toughest part. Don’t give just adventure hooks or plot seeds. Personally I’m terrible at developing those seeds and I’m sure I’m not alone. Also though for adventures, how about ones that are ready to run in the sense that the adventure is NOW!, not having threads of it sprinkled in other adventures to set it up. I’m thinking like a one night, 4-6 hour single game session. (Think 5 room dungeon type philosophy) Now if they’re linked together that’s a different story-like Viper Nest.

[Asperion]

I got thinking of the rules option since that is where most people tend to get the most problems.  With the extreme variation that Herogames has between the base ability,  mods, and other ways of both making and using the extreme different types of characters that can be created,  many new players are properly lead to believe that this system is way more complex than it really is. Actually dnd has the same complexity and few people cry about that system being strange and complicated. 

[Tjack]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

While my personal preference is setting books because I love worlds, I chose adventures because that's what I read nearly everyone on this forum clamoring for.

   I get where you’re coming from, but Steve didn’t specify about only using Champions as a base.  My suggestions were for a more general “what might sell best” situation. 
  If he were only interested in writing for Hero Games material I would have agreed with you.

[Steve]

1 minute ago, Tjack said:

   I get where you’re coming from, but Steve didn’t specify about only using Champions as a base.  My suggestions were for a more general “what might sell best” situation. 
  If he were only interested in writing for Hero Games material I would have agreed with you.

 I have ideas for several genres: Dark Champions, Star Hero, Urban Fantasy Hero and Ninja Hero. While I do have some ideas for Champions, these other genres call more loudly to me.

 

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

[Lord Liaden]

43 minutes ago, Tjack said:

   I get where you’re coming from, but Steve didn’t specify about only using Champions as a base.  My suggestions were for a more general “what might sell best” situation. 
  If he were only interested in writing for Hero Games material I would have agreed with you.

 

Just to clarify, I did assume Steve was asking about Hero System material because he wrote that he wanted "to get a sense of public opinion from my fellow Hero fans." I didn't assume only using Champions as a base, though. The complaint of a lack of adventures in Hero crosses genres, with DnD and Pathfinder being the most common example of game systems thoroughly supported with a stream of published adventures. Back in the day Steve Long used to say that adventure modules didn't sell as well as other types of books in Hero -- maybe because Hero fans tend to be self-builders -- but various parties here keep expressing their opinion that general public gaming expectations and habits have changed; as well as pointing out that with growing life responsibilities they just don't have the time to design their own adventures any more.

[Tjack]

41 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Just to clarify, I did assume Steve was asking about Hero System material because he wrote that he wanted "to get a sense of public opinion from my fellow Hero fans." I didn't assume only using Champions as a base, though. The complaint of a lack of adventures in Hero crosses genres, with DnD and Pathfinder being the most common example of game systems thoroughly supported with a stream of published adventures. Back in the day Steve Long used to say that adventure modules didn't sell as well as other types of books in Hero -- maybe because Hero fans tend to be self-builders -- but various parties here keep expressing their opinion that general public gaming expectations and habits have changed; as well as pointing out that with growing life responsibilities they just don't have the time to design their own adventures any more.

  In the words of the immortal Billy Joel...”You may be right, I may be crazy.”

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I've been considering trying my hand at writing game supplement materials for publication

 

Please do!  The more content for Hero there is, the better for the hobby, for Hero Games, and for us as fans.  The more stuff that game shops etc see from Hero, the more likely they are to order, stock, and promote.

[Derek Hiemforth]

11 hours ago, Steve said:

I've been considering trying my hand at writing game supplement materials for publication, but I'm not sure what would be most helpful/wanted to people so decided to try a poll here to get a sense of public opinion from my fellow Hero fans.

 

After giving it a lot thought, I ultimately voted for NPCs in the poll.  This surprised even me, because the truth is, I don't mind making my own write ups (or doing NPCs "on the fly" without a write up).

 

But I view published material mostly as inspiration: as creativity seeds rather than as gospel to be used en masse.  I realized that, for me, an NPC supplement (whether enemies or a cross-spectrum of character types) not only provides inspiration for NPCs, but also those NPCs imply a setting that they live in (and is half-written in their backstories) and spawn adventure ideas that would feature them.

 

You might expect, then, that an adventure supplement would naturally include inspiration for NPCs and setting, and a setting supplement would naturally include inspiration for NPCs and adventures.  And that's true... they both do both of those things. But in my experience, NPC supplements include more setting and adventure inspiration than the other ways around.

 

Having said all that, though...  poll aside...  my real advice to you is to write what you want... not necessarily what you think we want.  The truth is, tabletop RPG'ing outside of xD&D and its clones is a pretty niche hobby, "universal RPG"-style gaming is a niche within a niche, and HERO System gaming is a niche within a niche within a niche.

 

So you're exceptionally unlikely to make a bunch of money from your efforts, or to write something that's somehow going to make everyone discover the joys of HERO, etc.  It's important that, whatever you write, it be a fun and personally-rewarding experience for you, because the personal reward might be most of the reward. To be clear, I'm not at all trying to dissuade you from doing it. I just encourage you to go into it knowing that if you don't have fun doing it, then it's probably not worth doing.  

 

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Back in the day Steve Long used to say that adventure modules didn't sell as well as other types of books in Hero -- maybe because Hero fans tend to be self-builders -- but various parties here keep expressing their opinion that general public gaming expectations and habits have changed; as well as pointing out that with growing life responsibilities they just don't have the time to design their own adventures any more.

 

However, folks said that back in the day too, and adventures apparently still didn't sell as well as other supplement types.  Also, to clarify for folks who might not have been around for those exchanges back in the day, I believe Steve's point about Hero fans being self-builders was mostly about why things like genre books sold well, and not as much about why adventures sold poorly.  I think the reason adventures are believed to sell poorly is simply math. Adventures only sell to GMs, so right of the bat, you're eliminating a bunch of potential buyers. Also, in any given gaming group, probably only one GM will buy an adventure (eliminating some more potential buyers in groups that have multiple GMs).

 

To maximize the practicality of adventures as a product type, I feel like someone needs to find a way to make adventure supplements a good buy for both players and GMs.  I have a few half-baked thoughts about that, but I'll save those for another time/thread...   

[C-Note]

I chose Rules Enhancements/Variances. Specifically, the missing 6th Edition Vehicles book that was supposed to be written but wasn't.  A glaring hole in 6E that needs to be addressed.

[Spence]

I selected adventures. 

 

Here is my reasoning and personal preference

 

Rules Enhancements/Variances.  Already have them to infinity.  If there was ever a systems that not only beat the enhancement/variance dead horse to death, it is Hero.  Whether the 16 pounds core books of 6th or the 14 pounds of core rules in 5th Revised, there is only so much that can really be done and talked about for an actual honest to G universal rule system. 

 

NPCs pre-gens.  Got them, got tons of them and then some.  I can build them too.  And usually a better fit too.  The only genre where I really needed a quick source of pre-gens was in Champions and Fantasy Hero where having easy access to Orc and Goblins helped.  Got them.

 

Setting Books.  I am not talking about a Genre book like Pulp Hero or Dark Champions.  But a setting book.  Hero people do not make setting books.  They make MASSIVE TOMES that require more time and investment to digest than the average PHD.  If we actually got a Setting Book I think I'd have a coronary. 

D&D's current setting book was some information in the core rules and then the actual setting book called Sword Coast Adventures Guide.  159 pages that could be digested and actually used to play in a weekend.  One region, not the entire globe.  Usable.

 

Adventures This is what I am looking for.  But we need to define what an adventure is.  It is not an adventure seed or an adventure outline.  An adventure contains everything needed.   If it has goblins it includes the goblin character sheet.  If it is about a plot by Black Paladin, then it includes Black Paladins character sheet.   It is 2021 in the modern information age.  Page count in a PDF or other electronic medium does not kill trees and is not in a shortage.  By this I mean you do not have to smash as much information into each page to keep costs down.  You can add an appendix of handouts with one handout per page.   Also each NPC/Monster/Villain/etc. can be organized onto their own page in an appendix.  There is absolutely no reason beyond being lazy for to have a NPC fill column 2 of page 60 and column 1 of page 61.  Put the NPC on ONE page using both columns.  The person who bought it did so to run it.  They will want to print the NPCs and Handouts so they can actually use them.  If a writer wants to format the adventure so that is can be physically printed that is awesome, more power to you.  But add a PDF only add on that has all of the needed material so they can easily be printed and used.   Adventures should not be locked into a specific campaign.   World yes, campaign no.

 

You are hired by a mysterious patron (unknown to the players it is Mechanon) to locate the macguffin.   (BAD)

You are hired by a mysterious patron (unknown to the players it is Supervillain Mastermind) to located the macguffin.  (GOOD)

 

People buy adventures not because they cannot make adventures, but because they don't have the time or simply don't want to do it.  Yes they can do rewrites, but if trhey are like me, I generally skip anything that needs "rework" to get something I can just run. 

 

Don't make them too complicated.   Each one should fill one night (approx 3-4 hours of play).  A longer adventure can have multiple parts as long as each part fills one nights play.  An adventure should never go past 1-4 parts.  Even 4 is stretching it and moving into campaign territory. 

[Steve]

2 hours ago, C-Note said:

I chose Rules Enhancements/Variances. Specifically, the missing 6th Edition Vehicles book that was supposed to be written but wasn't.  A glaring hole in 6E that needs to be addressed.

Heh. I didn’t have anything quite that grandiose in mind.
 

I was planning to start small, like a 10-20 page adventure, some themed NPCs (like a ninja clan or Hudson City PD officers) or a mini-setting book.

[bluesguy]

On 8/9/2021 at 6:42 PM, Steve said:

Heh. I didn’t have anything quite that grandiose in mind.
 

I was planning to start small, like a 10-20 page adventure, some themed NPCs (like a ninja clan or Hudson City PD officers) or a mini-setting book.

I picked settings but only after I saw you write that you are thinking about mini-setting books.  Give me a piece of the 'campaign' puzzle that I can use for an adventure but can help build up the campaign as well. 

[Jhamin]

I voted for Adventures.  They are actual content I can use in a game.  As for which game should get them?  I am actally playing Champions right now so I'd love to see some Champions content, but if there is a desire to do some Luche Libre or Star Hero I'd be down for that.

 

For what it's worth: My last $100 of money spent on gaming went $60 for Pathfinder Adventure Paths and $40 for some Mutants and Masterminds adventures I am actively pirating into Hero Content.  The book of Templates II looks good and I'll pick it up eventually but it isn't on my "must have" list.

 

My Higherarch of needs for a Genre is:

1 - A Genre Book that lays out how Hero handles the conventions of that sort of fictional adventure.

2 - An Enemies book that establishes what typical opposition looks like and has a bunch of fun NPCs with plot hooks to help me get things rolling

3 - Adventures that take place in that setting

4 -  Setting Info.  Things that put the above into context and give me a framework to go "offroad" with my own stuff inspired by the first 3

 

So if we are talking:

 

Champions, I have 1=Champions, 2=many Enemies Books, 3 = Nothing 6E, but a decent amount of stuff from older editions but I can work with that, 4=More than I can list

 

Pulp Hero I have 1=Pulp Hero 2= Masterminds & Madmen, 3 = A ton of mini Adventures by Steve, 4= Thrilling Places

 

Star Hero I have 1=Star Hero 2= Scourges of the Galaxy, 3 = Nothing, 4= Name Escapes me but there is a book of Worlds

 

Fantasy Hero = 1 Fantasy Hero, 2= Nobles, Knights, and Necromancers, 3= Battlegrounds, 4 = Valdorian Age

 

Luche Libre, Urban Fantasy, Post-Apocalypic Hero, etc I have 1= A Genre Book, 2 = Nothing, 3= Nothing, 4=Nothing

 

So as I look over these, the thing about Genre books is that by themselves they are fine.  Some are even a lot of fun, but while they point me in a direction I'm still homebrewing 95% of everything.  I'd love me some Luche Libre but it is just such a lift to get it off the ground.  My players need more of a framework than the example characters.  They need Heels to fight and while I can make everything I can barely get an evening's worth of content ready for the actual game every week let along all the NPCs.  I actually played Pulp Hero back in the day because I could pull stuff from the books and have a game, I didn't need to do it all myself.

 

I am super good with the amount of rules stuff we have now.  I *like* that Hero is self-contained and doesn't need an endless list of feats and new classes.  I have the APGs but rarely use any of them.  I super don't need a new book of advantages.