Manic Typist Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Seeker as in the Seeker, from Wizard's First Rule/Law? Forget the series name. And, uh, I don't understand the anger, at least as it pertains specifically to the Worfing.... (I can understand, albeit disagree with, a general dislike of the Tropes site). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Seeker as in the Seeker, from Wizard's First Rule/Law? Forget the series name. And, uh, I don't understand the anger, at least as it pertains specifically to the Worfing.... (I can understand, albeit disagree with, a general dislike of the Tropes site). No, Seeker (the Martial Artist) from Champions. Like on the cover of *Champions* (4th ed), getting Seekered by Dr. Destroyer. [ATTACH=CONFIG]41409[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Seriously, do we need a freaking TV Tropes link on Worfed? On the Hero boards? God, I hate that idiot site, and I hate it more now. TV Tropes is definitely a bad case of Deader Than Disco. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Seeker as in the Seeker, from Wizard's First Rule/Law? Forget the series name. And, uh, I don't understand the anger, at least as it pertains specifically to the Worfing.... (I can understand, albeit disagree with, a general dislike of the Tropes site). No anger about Worfing. Just that everyone here should know the term. No need to post more links to the Tropes site. The usage was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick TV Tropes is definitely a bad case of Deader Than Disco. JG Argh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Not really Worfed, Tsuiko wasn't ever much of a threat to Redcloak. Also, Redcloak wasn't comic releif, that was Xykon, RC was the straight-man. But she was still evil+powerfull. Afaik the first time he was shown in the comics, he made a roach-motel to trap the hell-roaches. He didn't got any character development until the battle for Azure City. It is indeed scary, because he's willing to sell out all of creation to an evil god in hopes that there's actually a GREATER PURPOSE to it. JG It's his god. And afaik the Dark One was a normal Goblin that "ascended" to godhood. Wich explains why he "wasn't around" when the world was created and thus couldn't make sure Goblins get an fair share. No anger about Worfing. Just that everyone here should know the term. No need to post more links to the Tropes site. The usage was fine. I didn't knew it last year so it's always better to make a link. And seeker is the Worf effect in person: The Worf Effect - The covers of a good couple supplements for 4E showed members of the Champions, especially Defender, getting their butts kicked by the menace contained within its pages. It was probably to make buyers go, "Wow, these guys are so bad they took out the Champions!" but it ended up making the Champions, especially Defender, look like B-listers. There was a running gag amongst the fandom that if Seeker appeared unconscious on the cover, then it was a good book. The cover European Enemies (widely considered the worst Hero supplement ever published), conversely, featured Seeker kicking one of the featured villains. In a possible tribute, the cover art for 5E's DEMON: Servants Of Darkness featured Defender chained to an altar about to be sacrificed, and Witchcraft charging to the rescue. Almost justified in that 5E Defender is sorta clueless on this whole "magic" thing ... and he and Witchcraft have feelings for one another. - From TV Tropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/Champions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick "I wouldn't go in there if I were me, either. Which I'm pretty sure I am!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Rich has really been shooting them out, hasn't he? Good stuff as usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick But she was still evil+powerfull. Afaik the first time he was shown in the comics, he made a roach-motel to trap the hell-roaches. He didn't got any character development until the battle for Azure City. There was very little character development of any kind until the Azure City storyline - particularly on the villain side - so that's unsurprising. And she was powerful and evil, but more importantly "Crazy" and he took advantage of her crazy; for he is not crazy, he is perceptive. He has consistently learned from his mistakes and his successes. All I'm saying is that Redcloak didn't show up out of nowhere casually bat her aside and be showered with oh's and ah's over his power. Redcloak has been a) smart, concerned with his people, and most importantly, for the "worf" effect* ... c) in the story since the beginning. It would be "worfing" if the Necrosmexy had just swatted aside one of the Order of the Stick to show us how tough she was. Or if the Paladin had single-handedly defeated the entire order to show how tough she was (happened) when she appeared. *(from your site: Want a quick way to show how dangerous one of your unknown characters is? Simple, make him win a fight or score points against a character that the audience already knows is tough. This establishes him as willing to fight and marks him as sufficiently dangerous. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Greater this, Superior that, Greater something else... Bif-bam-pow, here's a new Magic Item? Holy crap, what level of caster has Redcloak become? Oh, and wouldn't Xykon's grasping the underling also be draining levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Greater this, Superior that, Greater something else... Bif-bam-pow, here's a new Magic Item? Holy crap, what level of caster has Redcloak become? Oh, and wouldn't Xykon's grasping the underling also be draining levels? He makes it a very good replica. It needs to fool good senses, some divination and has to sustain just as much damage as the original. Wich Redcloak has secured, ready to destory it/throw it into the gate when he thinks he doesn't needs Xykon anymore... And what do you mean by "the underling also be draining levels?"? No, he has no mental connection to Tsuiko (at least as far as we and redcloak know) so as long as Red has a suficciently valid cover story everything will be fine. But somehow I doubt Xykon is all that oblivious to Red's tricks. He has repeatedly shown to be much smarter than he looks or appears to be. Wouldn't be beyond him to scry on Red. Or having pulled some exchange/trick regarding the phylactery himself and just playing mad about the loss this whole time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick As for how powerful Redcloak is, he's been established as having Raise Dead abilities and is nearly on par with Xykon. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick And what do you mean by "the underling also be draining levels?"? No' date=' he has no mental connection to Tsuiko (at least as far as we and redcloak know) so as long as Red has a sufficiently valid cover story everything will be fine.[/quote'] No, what I meant was: Xykon is strangling goblin X -- wouldn't Xykon's touch, being a Lich, be draining levels at the same time? I don't know how you thought I was talking about Tsuiko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick As for how powerful Redcloak is, he's been established as having Raise Dead abilities and is nearly on par with Xykon. JG Raise Dead, while great, isn't on par with (iirc) Resurrection -- or do I have those reversed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Correct, but isn't Implosion- which we've seen Redcloak casting when he crushed the Resistance- a 9th-level spell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Yep, Implosion is level 9 cleric/Destruction domain spell, Earthquake is a level 8 cleric/destruction. Disintegrate is Destruction level 7 (so the Goblin god must have the Destruction sphere since Reddie can't take that as a Cleric). And Redcloak cast Implosion twice, which means he's at least 17th level. Possibly higher, depending on what level of Summon Monster he was using to bring in those demons and the Osmium elemental. EDIT: My mistake... Implosion lasts up to 4 rounds, so he could hit up to 4 someones with a single casting. Still, to cast 9th level spells you gotta be at least 17th level, so he's pretty buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Yep, Implosion is level 9 cleric/Destruction domain spell, Earthquake is a level 8 cleric/destruction. Disintegrate is Destruction level 7 (so the Goblin god must have the Destruction sphere since Reddie can't take that as a Cleric). And Redcloak cast Implosion twice, which means he's at least 17th level. Possibly higher, depending on what level of Summon Monster he was using to bring in those demons and the Osmium elemental. EDIT: My mistake... Implosion lasts up to 4 rounds, so he could hit up to 4 someones with a single casting. Still, to cast 9th level spells you gotta be at least 17th level, so he's pretty buff. Nerd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevelon Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick No' date=' what I meant was: Xykon is strangling goblin X -- wouldn't Xykon's touch, being a Lich, be draining levels at the same time? I don't know how you thought I was talking about Tsuiko. [/quote'] Liches don't drain levels with their touch (although wights do, who we saw last strip) They do get: [h=5]Damage[/h]A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures; a Will save (DC 10 + ½ lich’s HD + lich’s Cha modifier) halves the damage. A lich with natural weapons can use its touch attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d8+5 points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack. [h=5][/h][h=5]Paralyzing Touch (Su)[/h]Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick Liches don't drain levels with their touch (although wights do, who we saw last strip) They do get: Damage A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures; a Will save (DC 10 + ½ lich’s HD + lich’s Cha modifier) halves the damage. A lich with natural weapons can use its touch attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d8+5 points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack. Paralyzing Touch (Su) Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description). Red's statechef is a Clerik, so he might be able to survive (good Will and Foritute). Also, I think Xykon can choose to not use that effect. After all, what good is it to paralyse the guy you are asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick A lot of the characterization that informs RedCloak is unfortunately hidden away in the book-only strips found in "Start of Darkness". The books details Xykon and RedCloak early lives, how they hooked up, and why they are doing what they are doing. It is a fun read and really helps you understand the villains. He has already done terrible, terrible things for the plan. Feeding Tsukiko to her own minions is kinda small stuff compared to what he did to his own kin in service of the master plan. As for power level? teh bunneh is spot on about RedCloak getting the spells he says are brand new at 17th level. That doesn't put him in Xykon's league power wise. Heck, it only puts him maybe 2 or 3 levels ahead of most of the protagonists. Xykon is very clearly an epic-level character. We have seen Xykon cast at least 4 or 5 9th level spells in one battle (which is easier if you are a sorcerer, but you still need to be way above 20th level). We have also seen him use metamagic on 8th and 9th level spells which isn't possible without epic feats. I'd peg him around the mid to high 20s personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick And he's got Lich template and possibly prestige levels...not Loremaster though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick #832 is up! "Thus began the legend of Arrrghcloak!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick I like the throwaway line. 'Not since..' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Re: Order of the Stick I guess that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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