Post "gotchas" here

[Zane_Marlowe]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

It technically only exists under the following circumstances:

 

1. The power uses STR Minimum (6E2 199, first column) or Real Weapon (6E2 201, second column)

2. The GM says so as a house rule

 

JoeG

 

Good catch Joe! The new rules here are very interesting. I'm going to start pre-calculating weapon PD/ED stats so I can see how likely breakage is.

[Balabanto]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

The method by which an attack is delivered and it's special effect are cumulative for the purposes of Vulnerabilities. I house ruled this away, I don't believe a player should get additional rewards for putting a VPP on his sheet and defining it as magic with a bunch of spells that generate various effects, or just for buying a gadget pool.

 

In previous editions, if I shot you with a magically generated fire effect, it was fire. Now it's fire AND magic.

 

If I shot you with technologically generated oatmeal in 5th, it was oatmeal. Now it's technological oatmeal.

[torchwolf]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Under the Average characteristic range:

"The normal people characters interact with during the game tend to have Characteristics of about 5-8" [6E1, p49]

 

Steve Long confirmed that this is not a typo, but a slight change from 5ER, where normal people had 6-8.

[Grailknight]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Mind Control can kill you at the +30 lvl.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Mind Control can kill you at the +30 lvl.

 

Directly kill, or can make the target do something that would be fatal?

[The Main Man]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Directly kill' date=' or can make the target do something that would be fatal?[/quote']

 

I'm to lazy to look right now, but I was thinking the same thing as you.

 

If it is the latter, then that was already in 5e.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

It's no longer a hard and fast rule' date=' but it's still a recommendation. A lot of things have gone this way. Kind of a hint to GMs: "Take care of your own business. Instead of asking for some of the ridiculous 'official rulings' you've wanted since the dawn of time, figure out how to run your own game!" At least, that's the way I see it. [/quote']

 

You are all individuals!

[James Gillen]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I'm to lazy to look right now, but I was thinking the same thing as you.

 

If it is the latter, then that was already in 5e.

 

Yeah, the option to cause damage by saying "Die!" was in the original Ultimate Mentalist, although I think that was an additional modifier over and above +30.

 

JG

[JmOz]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I'm not sure, could someone check for me, but I don't see a refrence to hero math in the book anymore (always round in favor of the character)

[EverKnight]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I'm not sure' date=' could someone check for me, but I don't see a refrence to hero math in the book anymore (always round in favor of the character)[/quote']

 

Volume 1, page 12, the section entitled 'Character Points & Rounding'.

[JmOz]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

so I'm unable to see something that has it's own heading...well never said I was to smart

[EverKnight]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I guess that you wouldn't want me to point out that I found it by looking up rounding in the index either

[Ternaugh]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

You are all individuals!

 

I'm not!

 

JoeG

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Using two or more powers or similar abilities once against a single target isn't a Multiple Attack. It's a Combined Attack, and counts as a type of Strike.

 

6e2 74

[James Gillen]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

"If the character’s been Knocked Out further

(below -10 STUN), he’s completely unconscious

and has lost contact with the world around him —

he’s out cold. He falls down, unable to keep his feet

at all. A character in this state of unconsciousness

can be killed automatically as a Full Phase Action

by any character with the means to do so (a Killing

Attack or other powerful attack) who makes a

successful Attack Roll against the unconscious

character."

 

6E2, p. 106

[ideasmith]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

"If the character’s been Knocked Out further

(below -10 STUN), he’s completely unconscious

and has lost contact with the world around him —

he’s out cold. He falls down, unable to keep his feet

at all. A character in this state of unconsciousness

can be killed automatically as a Full Phase Action

by any character with the means to do so (a Killing

Attack or other powerful attack) who makes a

successful Attack Roll against the unconscious

character."

 

6E2, p. 106

 

"If the character’s been Knocked Out further

(below -10 STUN), he’s completely unconscious

and has lost contact with the world around him —

he’s out cold. He falls down, unable to keep his feet

at all. A character in this state of unconsciousness

can be killed automatically as a Full Phase Action

by any character with the means to do so (a Killing

Attack or other powerful attack) who makes a

successful Attack Roll against the unconscious

character."

 

5ER, p. 411

 

How does this count as a gotcha?

[James Gillen]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

"If the character’s been Knocked Out further

(below -10 STUN), he’s completely unconscious

and has lost contact with the world around him —

he’s out cold. He falls down, unable to keep his feet

at all. A character in this state of unconsciousness

can be killed automatically as a Full Phase Action

by any character with the means to do so (a Killing

Attack or other powerful attack) who makes a

successful Attack Roll against the unconscious

character."

 

5ER, p. 411

 

How does this count as a gotcha?

 

Eh, never mind then. It IS the first time I noticed it. But I actually haven't used my copy of 5ER in a while.

 

JG

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

the removal of Growth Momentum and Stretching Momentum damage from Shrinking and Stretching

 

I realize that you're just the messenger here,

 

but you, Sir, have made me a very, very, _very_ happy person simply by being the first source from which I heard that!

 

I can't rep right now (seems I've run out), but would you settle for being my Hero for the Day?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

An HKA only works in HTH Combat, but the

character may add +1d6 to his HKA for every 15

points of STR used with it (or, to put it another

way, +1 Damage Class for every 5 points of STR

used with it) (see Adding Damage, 6E2 99, for

more information).

 

Examples: Armadillo has powered gauntlets

with claws that do HKA 1d6. He also has

STR 50. Armadillo may do 1d6 Killing Attack

for 1 END by using his HKA. He may do 2d6

Killing Damage for 2 END by using his HKA and

15 STR.

 

Arkelos has a knife (HKA ½d6, or 2 Damage

Classes’ worth of Killing Damage). His STR is 10.

When using his knife, he can add his 10 STR for

+2 Damage Classes, making it do 4 DCs damage

(i.e., 1d6+1 HKA). If he had a 15 STR, he could

still only add 10 STR because his campaign uses

the rules for STR Minimum and Real Weapons

(see Chapter Seven of 6E2).

 

Strength (STR) adds to the damage done by

HKAs: +1 DC for every 5 STR used with it (or to

put it another way, +1d6 HKA for every 15 STR

used).

 

In Heroic campaigns, a character using a

weapon doesn’t add his STR to a weapon’s HKA

damage automatically — it only adds damage if it

exceeds the weapon’s STR Minimum (6E2 199).

For every full 5 points of STR a character has

above the weapon’s STR Minimum, he may add

+1 DC of Killing Damage (or, for weapons like

staffs that do Normal Damage, +1d6 of Normal

Damage).

 

Example: Brak the Barbarian (STR 21) wields

a dagger (1d6-1 [2 DCs], STR Min 6). Since his

STR is 15 above the STR Minimum, he can add

+3 DCs to the dagger’s damage. Ordinarily that

would mean increasing the damage to 5 DCs, or

1½d6. However, since the STR Minimum rules

are involved, he cannot do more than double the

base damage of the dagger (2 DCs). Therefore he

only increases its damage to 4 DCs, or KA 1d6+1.

Later, Brak wields a battle axe (2d6 [6 DCs],

STR Min 13). His STR is 8 points above the STR

Minimum. That means he can only add +1 DC of

damage, since he needs 5 full points of STR above

the STR Minimum to add a DC. Thus, he does

KA 2d6+1 with the battle axe (if he has other

ways to add damage, he can increase the axe’s

damage up to a maximum of 4d6, or 12 DCs). If

he had STR 23, he could add +2 DCs, making the

axe do KA 2½d6 damage.

 

The example in Character Creation seems to contradict this, but everything else says there is only a cap if the Real Weapons rule is in use in a heroic game.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Both Real Weapon and Strength Minimum seem to place that cap.

 

Typically when a character adds damage to a weapon with the STR Minimum rules' date=' he can no more than double the base Damage Classes of the weapon used. However, at the GM’s option he can do more damage than that, but the weapon also takes the full amount of damage it does to the target (and thus probably breaks).[/quote']

 

Additionally' date=' a Real Weapon can only be enhanced so far. Typically, no matter how a character tries to add damage to it (see 6E2 99), he cannot make the weapon do more damage than double its base Damage Classes. However, at the GM’s option a Real Weapon can do more damage than that, but the weapon also takes the full amount of damage it does to the target (and thus probably breaks).[/quote']

 

The word "Typically" in both cases tells me that I will be ignoring said rules completely in truly Epic Heroic games, but likely stick to them in most Heroic games I run.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

The example in Character Creation seems to contradict this' date=' but everything else says there is only a cap if the Real Weapons rule is in use in a heroic game.[/quote']

 

There's also a pretty good discussion of this in a toolkitting section. I suggest reading the whole thing, but here's one relevant excerpt:

 

To put it another way' date=' regardless of what the rules say, players shouldn’t try to buy small attacks and greatly increase them with the Adding Damage rules... and even if they try, the GM shouldn’t let them get away with it. As a general guideline, the GM might want to consider this: unless he rules otherwise, a character cannot more than double the Damage Classes of his base attack, no matter how many different methods he uses to add damage.[/quote']

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

There's also a pretty good discussion of this in a toolkitting section. I suggest reading the whole thing' date=' but here's one relevant excerpt:[/quote']

 

So what do we do with a 60 STR character (perhaps a Gargoyle) who also wants Claws?

 

Sorry, you can't buy them because 1 DC gives you 4d6+1 which is way too efficient, and buying 4d6 gives you 8d6 which is way too much?

 

I dislike "rules changes" like eliminating the cap on damage addition, but not really because we'll suggest elsewhere that you add it back in again.

[Balabanto]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Eh, never mind then. It IS the first time I noticed it. But I actually haven't used my copy of 5ER in a while.

 

JG

 

It counts as a gotcha because of the subjective interpretation of "Has the Means to Do so" You should at least have to overcome the character's resistant defense in order to just walk over to someone and kill them as a full phase action.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

So what do we do with a 60 STR character (perhaps a Gargoyle) who also wants Claws?

 

Sorry, you can't buy them because 1 DC gives you 4d6+1 which is way too efficient, and buying 4d6 gives you 8d6 which is way too much?

 

I dislike "rules changes" like eliminating the cap on damage addition, but not really because we'll suggest elsewhere that you add it back in again.

 

Hmm. Okay. Well, out of curiosity, what approach will you take for that scenario?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Hmm. Okay. Well' date=' out of curiosity, what approach will you take for that scenario?[/quote']

 

I more and more lean to the removal of HKA and renaming RKA simply "Killing Attack". If you don't want your killing attack to have Range, make it No Range. That's what you do with any other attack to remove its Range.

 

If you want it to be higher because you are strong, spend the points for a larger KA. That's what the guy with a 50 INT who wants to do more damage because he targets vital spots, or a guy with 35 DEX who wants to do more damage because he can attack with such great precision, does.

 

You could even put a Limitation on your KA, or your extra KA dice, that it Locks Out an equal amount of your STR. With no such limitation, it's quite all right to perform a Multiple Power Attack combining a Strike with your HKA and a Strike with your Strength, something I rarely see the guy with the claws consider.