Brandi Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by J4y I still can't help but cringe at how bloody aweful that picture is. I have trouble believing a profession artist could do something that bad. It's not great, but at least it's not Rob Liefeld, the man who gave Captain America bitch-tits: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Oh, that is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by austenandrews I'm not trying to slight Cap's smarts & tactical abilities, far from it. But come on, Batman's got so many toys that with enough preparation, he practically gave Superman a run for his money. -AA Don't forget Captain America can borrow toys from Mr. Fantastic and Tony Stark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Frankly I think Thor hit it right on the head when he called Supes a "sneering, arrogant Jackel". Because that's exactly how he was behaving. Now it's been a while since I've read any of his comics but I don't remember him acting like this. The rest of the JLA don't offer any comments about it so I can only guess it isn't that unusual. So I'd like to know, When did Superman become so intolerant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Actually the League does comment on Superman's atypical behavior in the first issue of the series. On p. 32 when Supes makes his first tirade against the heroes of Marvel-Earth, there's a panel showing his comrades with startled expressions. Then when the JLA confronts the Avengers on DC-Earth, Plastic Man asks Green Lantern sotto voce, "Uh, GL... is it just me, or is Big Blue layin' it on a little thick...?" To which Kyle replies, "It's not just you. I don't know what's going on, but...". The Avengers react similarly to Captain America's "fascist" comments. It's clear that those two, who would be the first in their respective teams to talk before fighting, are being mentally manipulated toward conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4y Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 It's not great, but at least it's not Rob Liefeld, the man who gave Captain America bitch-tits: AHHH! My eyes! The goggles, they do nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by Ranxerox Now what do you do if you are the Grandmaster and now running everything? D'uh, you hold a contest. Say, you're absolutely right! Maybe we're gonna get our matchups done right after all. The Grandmaster pits Superman & Thor, Hawkeye & Green Arrow, et al. in "cage matches" while some subset of other heroes struggle to free Krona and Galactus for a humongous cosmic show-down. There's hope yet! Suddenly the choice of the Grandmaster doesn't seem so amazingly lame as it did at first. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by Brandi It's not great, but at least it's not Rob Liefeld, the man who gave Captain America bitch-tits: *breaks down weeping* Oh Captain, My captain! Rob freaking unmanned thee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by Hermit *breaks down weeping* Oh Captain, My captain! Rob freaking unmanned thee! I wouldn't call them man-breasts. It just seems that Rob thought the Captain was treated much like those specially bred turkeys for Thanksgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Liefeld even got the costume wrong. Sad. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by austenandrews Liefeld even got the costume wrong. Sad. -AA I think the modification to Cap's mask is from the short lived "Heroes Reborn" attempted relaunch of the Marvel line, after the events of the overblown Onslaught saga. I'm still not sure whether that all disappeared so quickly out of design from the start, or because Marvel abruptly realized how lame much of it was and ditched it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Cap vs Bats...my 2 cents Hey Guys, I have to say, not having seen Isuue #2 yet, that based on my 30+ years of experience with the 2 characters that Cappy would mop the floor with Bats. Yeah Batman is way smart and has a high PRE but Captain America is the Ultimate Combat Machine! He's used to fighting in situations and against opponents that even Bats would find daunting...Korvac (Avengers 177) and Kang in the epic Kang Dynasty storyline. And note, that both of those opponents acknowledged that Captain America is extraordinary, in a class all of his own. Now Bats may be the greatest human combatant in comics but Caps skills in combat exceed what a human is capable of by a long chalk. How else would he duke it out with the guys I mentioned above, and many others, when seemingly greater heroes have already fallen. Sorry Batfans but I think you should bow your collective heads to the Supreme Combat Machine and set your sights a little bit lower, say maybe on the Black Panther. But then again, the Panther does have super-augmented jungle born senses and reactions and the sacred spirit of the Panther God within him... Later, Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimer the Mad Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 I honestly think that Supes isn;t mind-controlled. Cap thought the the JLA were bigtime fascists who had it too easy. He changed his opinion looking at Jason Todd's costume. I believe that Clark's on edge because the Marvel Universe represents his worst nightmare: A world where, for all their powers, the heroes don't make much of a difference. To deal with his own self-esteem problems using the Avengers as a manifestation of failiure. Remember, at heart he's still a Kansas farmboy who wonders often if he does enough. By beating the Avengers, he's subconsciously proving to himself that he's a better hero, and that he won't let his world get that bad. The fact that the Avengers have Thor sends the point home, because Thor is amazingly powerful, and the MU is STILL so screwed up. The "LIves matter!" comment seems to add credence to the idea that he's truly terrified by his perception of the Marvel Universe as a dark and possible reflection of his home. Also, if Supes is mind-controlled, there's going to be another Hawkeye-Squadron Supreme comment. We can only hope he doesn;t have the justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Re: Cap vs Bats...my 2 cents Originally posted by Vigil Hey Guys, IYeah Batman is way smart and has a high PRE but Captain America is the Ultimate Combat Machine! He's used to fighting in situations and against opponents that even Bats would find daunting...Korvac (Avengers 177) and Kang in the epic Kang Dynasty storyline. And Bats took out 4 White Martians when no one else on the JLA took more than one. I think that is a fair equivilent of fighting opponents that others find daunting. Not figuring that he would win, but that is would be oh too close to call. It all would depends on whose player had better die rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden I think the modification to Cap's mask is from the short lived "Heroes Reborn" attempted relaunch of the Marvel line, after the events of the overblown Onslaught saga. I'm still not sure whether that all disappeared so quickly out of design from the start, or because Marvel abruptly realized how lame much of it was and ditched it. LL, Correct, that version is from Heroes Reborn. As I remember it, the whole Heroes Reborn "maxi-series" was Marvel's way of screwing the fans to appeal the characters to Hollywood types. If judging from X-Men, X-2, Spider-Man, Hulk and Daredevil, from Marvel's point of view Heroes Reborn was a sucess. From a fanboy point of view, there were bits in there I thoughly enjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 I enjoyed the FF run in Heroes Reborn, but then I freely admit to being an unabashed Jim Lee fanboy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Batman Batman did hold his own against 8-9 X-men, taking out half the team before Jean Grey got involved. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Venom vs. Superman I think you are thinking about DC vs Marvel. Superman is having trouble restraining Venom, until the spiderman clone shows up. Batman didn't meet any X-Men in that, but did clock Bull's Eye. I think I am talking about the second series where the X-men show up at Dr. Strange's house where Batman is investigating, and they duke it out until the JLA arrive. Then they merge into the X-league. Been a couple years, so I could be wrong. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Good grief, how many cross-company comic books have they released?? -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Venom vs. Superman Didn't he tie Venom up in a girder once Spiderman made on the scene. I seem to remember Superman took hits that didn't seem to bother him. Something like "As long as he is hitting me, he can't go after a bystander." Or am I wrong? CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Morningstar70 It still made Superman look like a third rate pushover in that he couldn't keep Venom in line. It should have been a case of Bruce Lee on Crystal Meth holding down Gary Coleman after three bottles of NyQuil. Yeh, the problem is that when the writers get one of these one-on-one fights they have to do something to keep it interesting. What they should have done was just bring in a whole bunch more villains or give superman a disadvantage (like innocent bystanders to protect or kryptonite issues, or do something to say Venom is way pumped up beyond his normal abilities). On a side note, the only problem I have with the JLA/Avengers thing is... the seemingly endless wait for the next issue!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 It is an interesting concept and one that I'm sure many fans like myself have been waiting to see, but the difference in power levels between the two is drastic. JLA should win this hands down. As far as the Cap vs Batman issue, from the scene as presented in the book Cap wins hands down. Now if its in a dark alley or warehouse where Bats can plan or set up a sneak attack, then he wins. Face to face combat, Cap has Batman beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Have to agree Originally posted by Morningstar70 It still made Superman look like a third rate pushover in that he couldn't keep Venom in line. It should have been a case of Bruce Lee on Crystal Meth holding down Gary Coleman after three bottles of NyQuil. I guess a lot of writers forget how easy it is for superman to do things, especially with his combined strength and speed. A typical thing when I was reading comic books. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Hey what's that smell? It must be Issue 2! I'm not sure how this discussion segued from Issue #2 of the JLA/AVENGERS crossover to earlier and far less illustrious ones but to get back on track... I finally had a chance to sit down and completely read the issue as opposed to just skimming it but all in all...in a word...yeeesh! What a stinker of an issue! The fight between Cappy and Bats was a non (and I mean non as in actually never happened as opposed to non as in the sense of happened but was a letdown) event. So since it never happened there's nothing to discuss so let's move onto other areas. The Thor/Superman fracas was almost as big of a non-happening and bears little more comment. Thor's mystical nature, Mjolnir's supernatural/magical essence and Thor's vastly superior fighting experience seemed to have ben completaly forgotten as did Superman's vastly superior speed and raw strength. So, since neither seemed to bear any true resemblance to the actual characters beyond looking like them, there's really no basis for comparison and nothing to talk about here either. Pity, cause it would have been cool if the actual characters had fought and I'd hoped for way, way more from a writer of Busiek's ability. That being said, what a stinker of an issue. Not only was the plot all over the place in the worst way but there was absolutely no attempt made to mainatain any sort of consistency or continuity at all. The only guideline ssemed to have been that the JLA have to win in order to maintainthe unheralded plot twist which I'll plop in at the end as opposed to develop during the actual issue. God, does that suck! I'd hoped for much more and got much much less. Which is a complete shame given the prmising beginning of issue one. Oh well, nuff said and back to the drawing board. Maybe in another 20 years a real crossover and not a soulless blatantly pandering to DC piece of crap will occur. Maybe but not with this team. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Originally posted by Stone It is an interesting concept and one that I'm sure many fans like myself have been waiting to see, but the difference in power levels between the two is drastic. JLA should win this hands down. As far as the Cap vs Batman issue, from the scene as presented in the book Cap wins hands down. Now if its in a dark alley or warehouse where Bats can plan or set up a sneak attack, then he wins. Face to face combat, Cap has Batman beat. Captain America is a master of more than melee. I'm getting tired of the "Batman can beat anybody if he gets to plan routine." Read some Cap and think about his background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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