Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

[Enforcer84]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

it also upsets some of the non-jerks who now feel they have to constantly be on the defensive

But this is exactly it. The worst conspiracy theories about her work claim she's actually harassing herself to help her case.

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Y'know, when the non-jerks do more to call out and cast out the jerks from their midst instead of just claiming they're being attacked "unfairly" with the rest of said jerks, there'd be less to feel defensive about.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

White Geeks guys see some of the problem, being non alphas.

 

Does being an alpha rule out being a geek, then? Or are alpha geeks less alpha than alpha alphas?

[Enforcer84]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Y'know' date=' when the non-jerks do more to call out and cast out the jerks from their midst instead of just claiming they're being attacked "unfairly" with the rest of said jerks, there'd be less to feel defensive about. [/quote']

 

True, but what's the best way to do this? I've never seen the behavior personally. I'm pretty sure I would - despite my non-confrontational nature, say something. Or avoid those gamers. I mean I quit games because I didn't care for the other players/gm...though it was never for sexism. I don't buy blatantly pandering video games either. Of course, I play WoW which has had its share of sexist displays and controversy.

 

The online harassment I've seen in places I frequent I'll speak up...but they don't know me from Adam there. Also I don't troll the internetz looking for people to shame.

 

But if someone starts giving me grief for being a white male - two things I can't really hide - I am taken aback. (This is also something I've only encountered a few times personally but have seen on dandy youtube vids) I spent 4 days at GenCon and didn't see any bad behavior, perhaps I'm unobservant as there's a HUGE crush of flesh there, but the stories I've read in this thread were not playing out in Indy when I've been around. The dealer Zone is filled with all sorts of people and the cos-players were treated quite well. I played in a few games and there were men and women in both, no one was treated as inferior or just eye candy (well, maybe teh Bunneh, cause he's purdy)

[Cancer]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

There's also issues when the community implicitly takes pride in being stereotypically clueless. Like this. The shirt itself isn't bad, but it plays off behaviors that can turn bad very quickly.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I played in a few games and there were men and women in both' date=' no one was treated as inferior or just eye candy (well, maybe teh Bunneh, cause he's purdy)[/quote']

 

Geez, I can't go anywhere without people treating me like I was just a gorgeous piece of man-meat! You know I have feeling and emotions and stuff too!

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Does being an alpha rule out being a geek' date=' then? Or are alpha geeks less alpha than alpha alphas?[/quote']

 

I've seen Vin Diesel talking about playing D&D on late-night talk shows, so I don't think it rules out being a geek.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Geez' date=' I can't go anywhere without people treating me like I was just a gorgeous piece of man-meat! You know I have feeling and emotions and stuff too![/quote']

 

shh. Don't speak.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Does being an alpha rule out being a geek' date=' then? Or are alpha geeks less alpha than alpha alphas?[/quote']

 

No, but they are the exception and not the rule. An Alpha Geek, usually means top Geek, not Alpha male that happens to be a geek.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

http://pilgrim--soul.tumblr.com/post/37148809218/okay-so-heres-why-girls-dont-get-flattered-when

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Same blogger also has this: http://pilgrim--soul.tumblr.com/image/37431117305 which is off-topic (sorry), but pretty interesting.

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

[h=1]The 7 Most Ridiculous Things About Calling Out Fake Fangirls[/h]

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Wow, Tony Harris sounds like a real prize. I bet his mom's proud of that little display. (And I seriously wonder how disfunctional these guys' relationships with women in their own family are.)

 

It'd be fitting if some of these "pros" found their work drying up after pulling these kinds of stunts, but I think that's probably wishful thinking.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Considering that Dan Didio and Joe Quesada seem to regard antagonizing their customer base as entertainment, I doubt there will be any official censure of people lower on the totem pole for doing so. But after reading Harris' rant I know I'm going to think twice before buying product with his name on it in the future.

[Ranxerox]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Wow, Tony Harris sounds like a real prize. I bet his mom's proud of that little display. (And I seriously wonder how disfunctional these guys' relationships with women in their own family are.)

 

It'd be fitting if some of these "pros" found their work drying up after pulling these kinds of stunts, but I think that's probably wishful thinking.

 

Really? Someone says something stupid on their own personal blog, on their own time and no one is actually hurt and you want them to wind up up without work? Personally, I'm very reluctant to wish unemployment on anyone. This particularly true when their offense is something that is completely legal and they did it on their own time.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Really? Someone says something stupid on their own personal blog' date=' on their own time and no one is actually hurt and you want them to wind up up without work? Personally, I'm very reluctant to wish unemployment on anyone. This particularly true when their offense is something that is completely legal and they did it on their own time.[/quote']

 

Oh, I'm sorry, he shouldn't be held responsible for things said in the privacy of his PUBLIC FACEBOOK PAGE.

 

If I ran a company, I would not want his name associated with it, no. He's a professional in a fairly public position, and he has tainted his brand.

 

Nothing unreasonable about the concept in the least.

[gojira]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yeah, lots of folks have suffered consequences from what they've put on their public websites. Lots of folks have been let go from a company that didn't agree with what they said on a personal site. While I can see your point, that unemployment is too harsh for what he did, I think perhaps what he did is actually far worse than what you assume, Ranxerox. I think the sexism, discrimination, and physical abuse/assault against women is rather worse than people who don't experience it assume. That's the general take-away I get from this thread.

 

What I'd like to see is Mr. Harris apoligize. I think he backed away from some of his comments (from another blog post earlier in this thread), but a full throated retraction would be the best solution here.

[John T]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

If censure and financial loss are what it takes for some people to learn to be civil in public, so be it. They can think what they want in private. The internet is not that place, any more than a company Christmas party is.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

This blogger seems to get why it's not alright to joke about Rape. (Thanks to Fred Hicks on G+ for sharing this)

 

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2012/12/05/rape-versus-murder/

[Enforcer84]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

That's pretty well said.

[Ranxerox]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Oh, I'm sorry, he shouldn't be held responsible for things said in the privacy of his PUBLIC FACEBOOK PAGE.

 

If I ran a company, I would not want his name associated with it, no. He's a professional in a fairly public position, and he has tainted his brand.

 

Nothing unreasonable about the concept in the least.

 

I never said it was in private. I said it was on his own time. As for whether he has seriously tainted his brand, doesn't that remain to be seen? A drop in the sales of the book(s) that he works on would be a good indication. Probably need to wait to see sales numbers for the next several months.

 

Yeah, lots of folks have suffered consequences from what they've put on their public websites. Lots of folks have been let go from a company that didn't agree with what they said on a personal site. While I can see your point, that unemployment is too harsh for what he did, I think perhaps what he did is actually far worse than what you assume, Ranxerox. I think the sexism, discrimination, and physical abuse/assault against women is rather worse than people who don't experience it assume. That's the general take-away I get from this thread.

 

What I'd like to see is Mr. Harris apoligize. I think he backed away from some of his comments (from another blog post earlier in this thread), but a full throated retraction would be the best solution here.

 

Generally when I hear about someone getting fired over expressing an opinion on Facebook, I'm not pleased about it. Yes, I realize it's not a good idea to bad mouth your employer online and it's also not a good idea to bad mouth your customers. However, Mr. Harris made it clear that the people he was talking about weren't customers. He specifically said there were female cosplayers who were true comic book fans and that he wasn't talking about them. In his view probably everyone who was a Facebook friend of his, male or female, was someone that he was not talking about as he complained about certain female cosplayers. He was probably completely surprised when some of them were offended anyway.

 

Perhaps I am underestimating the harm done by his statements. However, have you considered the harm of silencing conversation on these topics? If we hold the hammer of unemployment and permanent unemployable status over people who express opinions we find disagreeable, how much honest conversation can we expect on these topics. Indeed, Mr. Harris may have done us all a favor by raising the topic.

 

If censure and financial loss are what it takes for some people to learn to be civil in public' date=' so be it. They can think what they want in private. The internet is not that place, any more than a company Christmas party is.[/quote']

 

I disagree. The right to free speech is vital and the internet is becoming (has become?) our foremost forum for public discourse. Placing it off limits to expressions of opinion is IMHO tantamount to saying that by being employed you no longer entitled to 1st Amendment rights.

[Greywind]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

http://jezebel.com/5966651/hey-girls-modesty-is-bullshit?utm_source=io9.com&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=recirculation

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Perhaps I am underestimating the harm done by his statements. However, have you considered the harm of silencing conversation on these topics? If we hold the hammer of unemployment and permanent unemployable status over people who express opinions we find disagreeable, how much honest conversation can we expect on these topics. Indeed, Mr. Harris may have done us all a favor by raising the topic.

 

 

The right to free speech is vital and the internet is becoming (has become?) our foremost forum for public discourse. Placing it off limits to expressions of opinion is IMHO tantamount to saying that by being employed you no longer entitled to 1st Amendment rights.

 

I agree as to not wanting to silence other opinions. And to the best of my knowledge neither Pattern Ghost nor John T are Mr. Harris' boss, so all they're really doing is exercising their own 1st Amendment rights and making their own opinions known. We're all free to agree or disagree as we wish. I seriously doubt Mr. Harris' actual bosses are going to terminate his employment and blacklist him based on a few comments on a discussion board, so there's little danger of the opinions expressed here crushing anybody's free speech beneath iron boots. I appreciate you pointing out the potential dangers, but I don't think the slope is quite that slippery.

 

That said, the right to make personal opinions known carries with it the necessity to accept the consequences if enough other people disagree with said opinions. If those consequences include loss of employment, well, the speaker should consider that possibility when choosing to share his opinion with others -- and also the way in which he shares that opinion.

 

Personally, beyond his actual opinion itself, I found Mr. Harris' word choices and overall tone on the offensive side. To me, he comes off as scornful not only of the cosplayers he rails against, but also of the "the REAL Nerds, who (they) secretly think are REALLY PATHETIC." As I read what he wrote, I couldn't shake the feeling that the "NOT Hot" cosplayers aren't the only ones thinking the "Nerds" (IOW, Mr. Harris' own customer base) are REALLY PATHETIC.

 

But that's just my opinion. Take or leave it as you wish.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The first amendment applies to the government. Not employing someone who makes an ass of themselves in public is not a first amendment violation.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

It is kind of offensive that this guy thinks we need some sort of gatekeeper for who is geeky enough to cosplay. Just because an attractive woman makes a costume of a superheroine doesn't mean she's NOT a geek. Beauty is NOT an indicator of whether someone can be a geek. As long as the women are there to have fun and to not sell stuff. I don't see the problem. It takes all sorts.

 

Also something that this guy forgets(and other as well) is that some people bloom later in life. The girl in high school that everyone picked on and no one found very attractive. Can mature into a very beautiful woman. A woman who has the same geeky hobbies and interests that she had when she was younger. A woman who might see the opportunity to dress up as one of the Superheroes she worshipped as a youngster.

 

So does that guy have the right to make an ass of himself on Facebook? Yeah he does. He also has to take responsibility for what he says. He should understand that someone might be offended by his opinion and not only not buy his stuff, but complain to his employer(s). That's the only consumers can have a voice. By not supporting the artists who offend them.