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Australian Supervillains


assault

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In terms of hero and villain cliche motifs I think animal ones are the most likely. Australians are proud of the wide variety of animals that can kill you. We're weird  that way. Snakes, spiders, crocodiles, and sharks would all be popular choices. I can also see a less serious super going by Combat Wombat. I'm picturing a low level brick, some KB resistance, maybe a utility belt with a few tricks.

 

Flag suits are just not Australian. We don't have the same attitude to/culture around the national flag as Americans. And nowadays such flag waving as there is is usually associated with xenophobic and out right racist attitudes. You could do a white nationalist villain who uses the Southern Cross flag. 

 

Australians do love their cars. How about a junk-yard/home made power suit called Commodore or Monaro? A mix of speedster and light brick.

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44 minutes ago, drunkonduty said:

Flag suits are just not Australian. We don't have the same attitude to/culture around the national flag as Americans. And nowadays such flag waving as there is is usually associated with xenophobic and out right racist attitudes. You could do a white nationalist villain who uses the Southern Cross flag.

 

The weird thing is that, as the article you linked to points out, the Southern Cross flag is also used by sections of the Left, with greater justification.

 

I could see a hero and a villain both using the symbol, punching the tar out of each other.

 

One of the few notable Australian superheroes of modern times is called the Southern Cross. He's a member of the Southern Squadron, who are a government run team. Of course that affiliation could cause some interesting challenges for the group... The creators of the Southern Squadron are still putting out stories at a glacial pace.

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9 hours ago, Jhamin said:

I am *strongly* on the side of the folks saying lets not make a potential Australia book about Dingos, Boomerangs, didgeridoos, Dreamtime, and so on.  The fact that drunkonduty has to warn us away from using some pretty nasty ethic slurs as character names says to me that this sort of thing has a high potential to be really embarrassing if done wrong.

 

Which is why it needs to be written by an Australian.

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I bought Steve Long's PDF Costa Azul yesterday, with an eye to using it as a model for writing notes on how to use Australia in Champions.

 

After some mucking about, I decided to approach things one State or Territory at a time. Naturally, I would start with my own State, Queensland.

 

So I started looking - and discovered that most of the setting material (aside from fictional additions) I would have included was in the Wikipedia entry for Queensland. Grr...

 

Anyway, as far as official CU stuff goes - VIPER, DEMON and the usual suspects have no presence in Queensland. On the other hand, ARGENT and the IHA could be present. I would imagine ARGENT would be more focused on New South Wales and Victoria, but the IHA... well Queensland has its fair share of Far Right nutcases. COIL could be anywhere, but it could be left for "later".

 

With a population of a touch over 5 million people there could be a small but adequate population of superbeings. Enough to give visiting heroes a hard time.

 

We don't need to worry about the demographic figures in Champions Universe - they're from 2010. One super per 5 million? Maybe back in your day, Grandpa.

 

I'm not planning on writing a full "Champions Down Under". This is just me amusing myself in my now rather copious free time.

 

Oh, and I see Seeker being in the Northern Territory, after he pops out of the Well of Worlds to say "G'day!"

 

The version of Seeker from Watchers of the Dragon, naturally.

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5 minutes ago, assault said:

Oh, and I see Seeker being in the Northern Territory, after he pops out of the Well of Worlds to say "G'day!"

 

The version of Seeker from Watchers of the Dragon, naturally.

 

Huh, Seeker is a little divisive in the Hero Fandom.  Some folks think he is just off beat enough to be fun, the blonde Australian Ninja who goes bare chested & wears bright white pants.  While Ninja'ing.  Others find his sillyness to be offputting.

As you are actually kicking around an Australian Champions book,  this is actually a good opportunity to ask: As an Actual Australian how do you feel about Seeker as probably the highest profile Aussie in Champions Lore?

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27 minutes ago, Jhamin said:

As an Actual Australian how do you feel about Seeker as probably the highest profile Aussie in Champions Lore?

 

A good question.

 

I love the idea of the character. The execution is a bit Meh.

 

He's basically Remo Williams crossed with Crocodile Dundee. There's nothing wrong with that. although I've always studiously ignored the Destroyer books.

 

I like his personality. I like the fact that he isn't Grimdark Serious. I like the fact that he doesn't walk around under a sign saying "Look at me! I'm a Ninja!"

 

His origin actually kind of works. A legacy from covert intelligence shenanigans during WW2? Count me in. In fact, it's worth expanding on.

 

It's the little things that bug me a bit. The "shirtless Bob" look is annoying. Sometimes, sure. It worked for Bruce Lee, and even Shatner as Captain Kirk. But all the time? No. Aside from anything else it's impractical. He adventures in places where it snows, for goodness' sake. And he originally came from the skin cancer capital of the world. He needs a bit of a visual redesign.

 

While his origin is basically sound, as I suggested, it needs a bit of tweaking. It's got a "written by an American" vibe in a couple of places.

 

For example, he was orphaned in a Land Rover accident. Why a Land Rover accident? Why not a Toyota accident? The term Land Rover seems to be being used as a generic term for no good reason.

 

His build could do with a bit of massaging. Some resistant defenses would nice for starters.

 

He would work quite well as a trainer for PCs. That's probably how I would actually use him in a game. I suppose he would still be a Seeker, even when he settles down and retires from adventuring. He would just be Seeking in different ways.

 

Basically, I like him. I will definitely include him in anything I do get written, if I do write. (It would also annoy the anti-Seeker squad, which is good.)

 

He'd be a good opponent for Foxbat, too.

 

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2 hours ago, assault said:

 

The weird thing is that, as the article you linked to points out, the Southern Cross flag is also used by sections of the Left, with greater justification.

 

I could see a hero and a villain both using the symbol, punching the tar out of each other.

 

One of the few notable Australian superheroes of modern times is called the Southern Cross. He's a member of the Southern Squadron, who are a government run team. Of course that affiliation could cause some interesting challenges for the group... The creators of the Southern Squadron are still putting out stories at a glacial pace.

 

Agreed that the Southern Cross has more history with labour organisation. It's just that, in the last decade or so, I always see it linked with white racist movements. But I like you're idea of two supes punching one another for the right to claim it for their cause.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, assault said:

 

A good question.

 

I love the idea of the character. The execution is a bit Meh.

 

He's basically Remo Williams crossed with Crocodile Dundee. There's nothing wrong with that. although I've always studiously ignored the Destroyer books.

 

I like his personality. I like the fact that he isn't Grimdark Serious. I like the fact that he doesn't walk around under a sign saying "Look at me! I'm a Ninja!"

 

His origin actually kind of works. A legacy from covert intelligence shenanigans during WW2? Count me in. In fact, it's worth expanding on.

 

It's the little things that bug me a bit. The "shirtless Bob" look is annoying. Sometimes, sure. It worked for Bruce Lee, and even Shatner as Captain Kirk. But all the time? No. Aside from anything else it's impractical. He adventures in places where it snows, for goodness' sake. And he originally came from the skin cancer capital of the world. He needs a bit of a visual redesign.

 

While his origin is basically sound, as I suggested, it needs a bit of tweaking. It's got a "written by an American" vibe in a couple of places.

 

For example, he was orphaned in a Land Rover accident. Why a Land Rover accident? Why not a Toyota accident? The term Land Rover seems to be being used as a generic term for no good reason.

 

His build could do with a bit of massaging. Some resistant defenses would nice for starters.

 

He would work quite well as a trainer for PCs. That's probably how I would actually use him in a game. I suppose he would still be a Seeker, even when he settles down and retires from adventuring. He would just be Seeking in different ways.

 

Basically, I like him. I will definitely include him in anything I do get written, if I do write. (It would also annoy the anti-Seeker squad, which is good.)

 

He'd be a good opponent for Foxbat, too.

 

How I can see Seeker in the 6ed.

 

He is Donald Morgan. It is a name he adventures under. They call him Seeker because of the uncanny resemblance to "that comic book character they got to replace that duck guy".

 

His origin is basically the same. He either ages slowly or his adopted father didn't fight in WW2. (I doubt he would be close to 50 without good biology).

 

He has more than a few martial arts skills. Many of them taught by his father, some he learned by his lonesome. They are probably:

Taijutsu (the fighting art of Ninjutsu),

Karate,

Kenjutsu,

Shurikenjutsu,

Boxing,

Dirty Infighting,

Wrestling,

some Aborigine martial art styles (you might have to create one).

 

He probably has a VVP full of weapons he uses, with ones he normaly carries in a multipower. His body is hardened (resistant protection and Combat Luck). He knows some ki abilities, but nothing worthy of a video game (no fireballs). He is well traveled, speaks different languages and has helped many people in his time. Many people "owe him a favor".

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I don't mind the classic shirtless martial artist look. A lot of guys who look ripped want to show it off, particularly if they're showboats.

 

How tough is it for one of the studs on the bandolier to be Life Support vs Heat/Cold as an IAF and another as an IIF to provide him with some invisible resistant defenses?

 

Do that, give him some Combat Luck, and he'll be right as rain.

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13 hours ago, archer said:

give him some Combat Luck, and he'll be right as rain.

 

Combat Luck as a concept didn't exist until 5th edition, which is Im sure why he didn't have any in 4th.  In a lot of ways, he is the poster child for the kind of character it exists for.
 

The big blue book of 4th was my introduction to all things Hero.  I never even blinked at the shirtless ninja with white pants.  If anything, he was one of my favorites.  It probably mattered that I was reading a lot of Defalco & Frenz Spiderman, Black & White Ninja Turtles, and Larry Hama GI Joe at the time.  His color scheme & attitude didn't seem odd to me with those influences.  I'll admit that it always bothered me that as written he couldn't actually use most of the weapons he was packing.  That was fixed in the higher point total versions that showed up later, and is actually kind of an argument for the higher starting points we got in later editions.

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On 4/2/2021 at 1:27 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Duke Bushido as to flag suits, there’s more than probably what your Google fu found. Go look at Public Domain of Super Heroes.  Now whether that was an issue as to why they aren’t popular? I don’t know. Also once Capt. America became popular and Comic book companies have been know to sue each other, I figure that could be another reason why you don’t see as many flag suits these days. 

 

To quote that most beloved of shows:  "You are technically correct.  The best kind of correct!"  :rofl:

 

However, I took into account writer bias and publisher bias.  I _expected_ to find lots of flag suits coming from the US, because we, as a nation, have fetishized our flag.  We have festishized other people's flags, too, strangely enough.  The whole "rah rah national pride" thing, carried to the level it is carried in the US, is _almost_ unique in the world.  When you scream "this nation!" to an American, there is a flag either foremost in his mind, or draped over whatever image does come to mind.  When you scream it to folks from other nations, they either think of their neighbors or their government, or they wonder "who is this lunatic and why is he screaming at me?"

 

Googling sources such as comics published by non-American companies (which-- and it should be noted I didn't do an in-depth, i'm-gonna-write-me-a-book type dive into this-- don't seem to be nearly as prolific or last nearly as long, suggesting that the superhero itself may be a uniquely American (and Japanese, kinda, but way different) thing), the percentages of flagsuits straight-up nosedives.  Captain Canuck is sort of one, and isn't (or at least wasn't; I couldn't find anything after the 80s, which may be why July 4 isn't as fun to me as when I was a kid-- there was always a reprint of some Captain Canuck title at the gas station just after July 4, for reasons I never questioned) from an American company.  I found like four, total, and-- probably because I am an American-- didn't find anything particularly special about any of them.  Granted, I haven't found anything particularly appealing about the American ones, either, but there are a _hell of a lot_ of them.

 

The resulting conclusion from my admittedly limited and non-scientific couple-of-hours search of the internet left me with the distinct impression that Flagsuits are uniquely American, and the bulk of Flagsuits from other nations are in fact created and published by American companies.

 

And to point it out just a bit more, I scrolled upward to my list and I realized that I have no idea which one of those characters is a movie star.   Just like when we were kids, the alter ego is not the character.  Bruce Wayne is boring and uninteresting and not why my friend would pool their nickels to drop fifteen-cents on a comic book instead of a chocolate block.

 

 

A few years ago, Tony Stark was not why my kids wanted me to drop thirty bucks on movie tickets and three-hundred on popcorn and cokes to go see Iron Man.  The armor that flies and bounces bullets-- that's what they knew.  As a kid, that's what _I_ knew.  That's who the character was:  Iron Man was why I knew Iron Man.  You can stick an Australian inventor in there and have the same thrilling, exciting red-and-gold suit of action-packed excitement.  There is nothing about Iron Man that is uniquely American.

 

 

Spiderman-- one of the most beloved of comic icons.  He is not Peter Parker; he is spiderman.  Even then, who is Peter Parker?   He's an everyman: he's that not-popular guy who tried to do all the right things: worked hard in school, wanted a good, simple life, and can't shake that one thing that he won't forgive himself for.  If this is uniquely American, it's "uniquely" every American I ever met, but I'm willing to bet that it's something all humans live with, on some level.

 

Still, I'm willing to bet he'd fit right in to any non-American setting that featured lots of closely-packed tall buildings.

 

 

 

On 4/2/2021 at 11:41 AM, Opal said:

The scary-cool Biker on the Open Road. 

 

Should have been more clear, I suppose.  Forgive the error; I confess that new members here are always a bit of a surprise.  A happy surprise, to be sure, but given the state of the hobby over all and non-D&D parts of the hobby in particular, they are a surprise.   Welcome aboard.

 

Anyway: I was referring to the original Ghost Rider: the glow-in-the-dark horseman school teacher writing wrongs, etc.  Yes: frontier, open spaces, guns, etc.  Very America.  

 

But the idea of the horseman hero is not american.  Knights of old, ancient asian warriors, etc.   Put a spin on the character, and the Ghost Rider could just as well have been the Ghost of Galahad or the wandering spirit of some great Mongol warlord destroying the communist oppressors of China.   Sure; it wouldn't get published there, but who is to say some distant child isn't dreaming that dream even now?   It's not unique to the USA.    Even the motorcycle version isn't unique to the USA.  They are called "bikies" in Australia, as I recall.

 

And wasn't there recently a comic published with "the Ghost Rider" in what looked like a late 60's / early 70's Chrysler?  Less cool to me, as a die-hard motorcycle fan, but still: even that concept works on a broader scale than an American riding a motorcycle through the desert.    The character himself-- someone who dabbled with black arts and got bonded to a demon?   I am pretty sure (but not motivated to do the research) that this one can be found even back in some old Russian folklore.

 

Traveling the open road is so decidedly not unique to America that America itself would not exist as we know it were it not for the wanderlust of an Italian man and the dreams of wealth attainable in a far-away land held by a Spanish queen.  An Englishman named Tolkien wrote a series of books that are nigh-biblical in popularity to this day, the entire point of which was walking across a continent and kicking ass.

So "Ghost Rider the biker guy" version is an ecclectic amalgam of not-uniquely-American ideas that yield an end character that isn't really uniquely suited to only the US.

 

 

 

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The genius inventor/self-made millionaire.

 

Is not Iron Man.

 

He's Batman.

 

He's Booster Gold.

 

He's an origin story.

 

 

Iron Man is a man inside a suit of high-tech armor bristling with weapons.   

 

Just like Gundams and tanks.   Gundams grew from-- what was that thing before Astro Boy?  Where the kid controlled the giant robot?  Black-and-White and I can't remember what it was called.  :(

 

At any rate, Iron Man would be just as at home in any other metal-using technology-using culture on earth, which at least check was almost all of them.

 

 

Quote

The movie star. 

 

Is decidedly not an american concept, especially when it's so easy to point out that the biggest movie star in the world-- Jackie Chan-- is almost unknown outside of a select audience who either loved his martial arts prowess and watch him on video tape or loved his antics and comedy in later films.

 

But even then:

 

 

Quote

The baby-boom generation-gap Teenager. 

 

Same problem.  I have no idea which of these relates to which character on that list.  This is primarily, I think, because the superhero characters -- sorry; bad phrasing:  Because the secret identity part of the character has no real impact on the superhero character.  This is important, because it is _why_ these characters are universal and work in any culture:  Hindu Iron Man?  Go for it.  It works.  Botswanian Batman?  Do it, Dude.  Make his secret identity relevant to _you_, and the character still matters, primarily because at the end of the day, no one really cares.  The Secret Identity is something to hook people who aren't already hooked on the titular star, and honestly, no one is buying comic books for the soap opera.  Given some of the woe-is-me articles related to comic sales, I daresay that the uptick in soap opera drama may actually be impacting them negatively.    And really, let's be honest:  I have no "me character" investment in a billionaire. I'll never be one.  I have no "me character" interest in the god with a heavy burden; I'll never be one of those, either.  There is no appeal there for me or for millions like me.  I suspect this is why all the Tony Stark scenes in the movies went light on soap opera and heavy on "funny jackass."  We all dream of being in a position to give our exact opinions on everything whenever we want; that's something we can get behind.

 

But I'm willing to bet there are versions of that in other countries, too.  Except probably China; that is probably not the place for that.  Still, that leaves a lot of other countries and cultures.

 

 

 

 

Quote

And, of course, the fully-integrated immigrant fighting for Truth, Justice and the American Way.  

 

 

And as one more note about the importance of Secret Identities to their, if you will pardon the term, "real characters,"  I had a thought I wanted to share when I read that, but I first had to do a quick google to see if Captain American was an immigrant first.   Seriously:  I really didn't know.  I say that because the movie stated quite clearly that his parents were, but it didn't state if he was born here or not.  He says numerous times throughout the three movies I saw with him in them (I am not a Captain American fan or an Avengers fan.  I am not a comic book superhero fan in general, really, but I don't find fault with those who are.   I find it often gives me a far different perspective than my friends here who are fans of those things, and I rather enjoy that difference for the various inputs it provides.  Much the same way that I am not a Martial Arts fan beyond the old movies, but I still enjoy a lot of what Ninja-Bear offers on the subject.)

 

At any rate, Captain America states numerous times "I am from the Bronx," but never that he was born in New York.   There are a number of people on this board who know that I am "from" Georgia, but I was born and spent my early years in Circle, Alaska.

 

At any rate-- to demonstrate yet again that secret identities are not the actual characters-- at least not as far as a large number of people really care-- It took me a long minute (I was halfway through my googling of Captain American being an immigrant or not.  Turns out his parents were, but he isn't.  I think it would be cooler if he was, all things considered) to decide if you were talking about Captain America or not, and even longer to figure out that you were talking about superman.

 

Why?  Because unless someone says "Kryptonian," I forget that Superman isn't from Kansas.

 

That's just how deeply important the tie between super hero and secret ID are to people who don't read comics.  We know the character as the spandex commando with the certain name who has the certain powers, and everything else is the boring part between those moments when the character does cool stuff like flying, solving clues, taking down villains, and solving the crime.   It could be absolutely _anyone_ in those boring parts; we don't really care.  Just make the character himself someone we can get behind.

 

 

 

 

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Quote

Spiderman-- one of the most beloved of comic icons.  He is not Peter Parker; he is spiderman.  Even then, who is Peter Parker?   He's an everyman: he's that not-popular guy who tried to do all the right things: worked hard in school, wanted a good, simple life, and can't shake that one thing that he won't forgive himself for.  If this is uniquely American, it's "uniquely" every American I ever met, but I'm willing to bet that it's something all humans live with, on some level.

 

Still, I'm willing to bet he'd fit right in to any non-American setting that featured lots of closely-packed tall buildings.

True. There is the Emissary from Hell. The motorcycle driver who saved an alien spider and now has to stop an evil alien from invading Earth. He has spider powers. He has a mecha called the Marveler. His name is Spiderman.

 

And the five members of the sentai group Battle Feaver J are loosely based on the Avengers of the 70's comic books. Imagine Hulk driving a mecha.

 

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2 hours ago, Greywind said:

Point of contention, Duke: Booster Gold was a thief.

 

Sure, but a self-made theif, right?

 

:rofl:

 

 

seriously, though, I have never made a secret of the fact that I have never, even as a kid, been really in to superhero comics.  The fact that I recognize the characters and like some of them without having a clue who "they are" speaks volumes to the general pointlessness (beyond soap opera) of their secret identities; the super identity is a separate character, who can thrive with anyone behind the mask.  Even an Australian.

 

:)

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On 4/2/2021 at 5:59 PM, assault said:

I bought Steve Long's PDF Costa Azul yesterday, with an eye to using it as a model for writing notes on how to use Australia in Champions.

 

After some mucking about, I decided to approach things one State or Territory at a time. Naturally, I would start with my own State, Queensland.

 

So I started looking - and discovered that most of the setting material (aside from fictional additions) I would have included was in the Wikipedia entry for Queensland. Grr...

 

Anyway, as far as official CU stuff goes - VIPER, DEMON and the usual suspects have no presence in Queensland. On the other hand, ARGENT and the IHA could be present. I would imagine ARGENT would be more focused on New South Wales and Victoria, but the IHA... well Queensland has its fair share of Far Right nutcases. COIL could be anywhere, but it could be left for "later".

 

With a population of a touch over 5 million people there could be a small but adequate population of superbeings. Enough to give visiting heroes a hard time.

 

We don't need to worry about the demographic figures in Champions Universe - they're from 2010. One super per 5 million? Maybe back in your day, Grandpa.

 

I'm not planning on writing a full "Champions Down Under". This is just me amusing myself in my now rather copious free time.

 

Oh, and I see Seeker being in the Northern Territory, after he pops out of the Well of Worlds to say "G'day!"

 

The version of Seeker from Watchers of the Dragon, naturally.

While this is a 'tad' off topic, and we can use private messages if need be to keep this thread on track, but I have a question considering you're from Queensland. I have a couple characters who reside in Brisbane (okay the three I use are related by blood but anyways), and one of them I have a hero who has been around for several decades, including involvement in World War II (although this involvement is a more recent venture). How do you think things would change over time in that area regarding supers-type of involvement? Is that likely to be based on the narrative, or is it something where things may have developed relatively the same when it comes to Golden Age > Silver > etc.? I'm wondering how much those 'status of society' type of factors will have any major effects for any heroes and villains in a fictional hero-verse.

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Honestly, I can't tell you how your universe works.

 

I personally tend to use some of the Real World(tm) political and social context of the 1980s. There was a rather notorious corruption network exposed in the Fitzgerald Inquiry , which has the benefit of being relatively well documented. Having been around then makes it a natural backdrop for my games. But of course, once that network was dismantled most of that lovely detail no longer applies.

 

It does mean the Queensland can work as a Bronze Age setting.

 

Since I am vaguely working within, or least near, the official Champions Universe, I would have to assume that most of the supers from back then would have faded away into retirement. Until, of course, the resurgence of Australian superheroes over the past decade... (The official dismissal of Australia as a backwater in terms of supers dates back to 2010 - far enough ago for a whole new wave of heroes and villains to appear.)

 

There are, of course, issues with the notion of comic book "Ages" as an actual historical phenomenon, but if you want to superimpose them on Queensland, go ahead. It's your world.

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On 4/4/2021 at 12:00 PM, Duke Bushido said:

I confess that new members here are always a bit of a surprise.  A happy surprise, to be sure, but given the state of the hobby over all and non-D&D parts of the hobby in particular, they are a surprise.   Welcome aboard.

Sorry to disappoint, I'm an old returning Champions! fan.  I was on Red October when it was still a BBS, then Hero-L, then some other forum that preceded this one (I think, c2000? it was pretty clunky as I recall).  I found & joined this forum in 2008 when my last (so far, last, haven't found anyone else interested since) Champions! campaign wrapped.  I was participating on here as 6th came up, and discussions  left me convinced it wasn't for me.  What little I saw of it once it came out didn't catch my interest.  

Anyway, a few weeks ago, this forum came up on a google search and I found myself sucked back in.  IDK how long that'll last.

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My first scenario idea involves this research and this location.

 

I'm not sure where the prototype could be built, or how it could be transported to Woomera. Anyway, someone wants the data, and preferably the prototype. Hilarity ensues.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt there is a suitable route that travels through the areas where Min Min lights have been reported. 🙁

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Unfortunately, there's no suitable land route that goes through the area I want. Everything goes the long way around, unless someone was dumb enough to try and move sensitive high tech equipment along the Birdsville Track.

 

Might have to fly it there.

 

I seem to be assuming the prototype is being built in Brisbane. That seems OK, although there are other places that make more sense.

 

Stealing it in midair seems like a bit of a stretch, but is exactly the kind of thing a supervillain would do.

 

Of course, even if the attempt fails, all the data about the prototype can be stolen from Brisbane. In that case, destroying the prototype is an option if stealing it proves impossible.

 

Nearly anybody could be behind the heist. This is good.

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