Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Ternaugh]

14 hours ago, zslane said:

Disney/Marvel never had a problem with making their superhero content family-friendly enough to get past ABC's S&P board. But they sure had a (growing) problem with the logistical and economic constraints that the broadcast television format imposed. The biggest difference between now and several years ago when shows like Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter were airing was that there was no Disney streaming service on the horizon which offered a more logistically flexible and economically attractive delivery vehicle for that content. Next year there will be, and so pulling everything they can back in-house so as to have plenty of content with which to spin up the new service is of paramount strategic importance.

 

ABC is in-house for Disney. They've been a part of the House of Mouse since the 1995 acquisition of Capital Cities/ABC, and are organized under the Disney-ABC Television Group.

[zslane]

On 11/3/2018 at 12:53 AM, megaplayboy said:

I think they can have a clear rating system and a Family Filter on their service so that "mature" series could be blocked from viewing by children or somesuch. 

 

They could, but they won't. That's simply not the Disney brand. Disney Plus will not contain any "mature" content, regardless of what filtering technology can do. It's all about the optics of the brand. Any R-rated content they acquire from Fox will end up on Hulu.

 

I think most folks fail to understand how carefully Disney presents itself to the world. They are the world's "Family" brand, period. That's why there has been so much uncertainty and speculation over how Disney would integrate Deadpool into not only the MCU, but the Disney brand as a whole. The PG-13 version of Deadpool 2 that is coming out is an experiment to see if an R-rated movie can be successfully reworked for the Disney/Marvel audience. I would venture to say the success or failure of this experiment will determine the future of the Deadpool character on film.

[archer]

24 minutes ago, zslane said:

 

They could, but they won't. That's simply not the Disney brand. Disney Play will not contain any "mature" content, regardless of what filtering technology can do. It's all about the optics of the brand. Any R-rated content they acquire from Fox will end up on Hulu.

 

I think most folks fail to understand how carefully Disney presents itself to the world. They are the world's "Family" brand, period. That's why there has been so much uncertainty and speculation over how Disney would integrate Deadpool into not only the MCU, but the Disney brand as a whole. The PG-13 version of Deadpool 2 that is coming out is an experiment to see if an R-rated movie can be successfully reworked for the Disney/Marvel audience. I would venture to say the success or failure of this experiment will determine the future of the Deadpool character on film.

 

Disney has been hit with repeated boycotts over the few couple of decades because their properties did something which was controversial to the Religious Right. And each of those boycotts fell apart before having any dramatic impact on Disney revenue. I'm sure by now Disney has a feel for how far they can push things.

 

Disney is very careful of it's brand  But I think they could continue churning out Deadpool movies indefinitely under the Fox label as long as they don't try to bringing him fully into the MCU with big name crossover events. I mean, you couldn't have Cap and Iron Man appearing with Deadpool but you could probably have half of the sixty X-Men, their students, and splinter groups show up at some point or another in a Deadpool movie and never miss them out of the main part of MCU continuity. And if you wanted any of them into mainstream MCU continuity at some later point, you could change the actor and costume and most of the audience would never know the difference.

 

Right now, they play up the Marvel Studios angle on Marvel movies rather than "hey, this is Disney". In the Infinity War movie, Asgardians were killed by the hundreds, many of them obviously tortured. The soldiers of the Wakandan army were ripped up by alien invaders. Thanos got a freaking huge sword stuck through his chest then half the sentient population of the universe was wiped out. That's getting away with a lot which would be objectionable to a G-rated family-oriented company.

 

Getting back to Deadpool, I'm not a real fan of "cursing for the sake of cursing" in movies anyway. They could drop out most of the F-bombs and other language in Deadpool and improve the movie experience for me. In my opinion, there should be a time and a purpose for cursing and a time limit for how long the cursing continues rather than having it drag out hoping some people in the audience will find the length of the tirade to be amusing.

[zslane]

I think we agree it is possible to make Deadpool a PG-13 character so as it align him properly with the rest of the MCU, and that appears to be Disney's objective.

 

Rather than open the whole "we don't make R-rated movies" can of worms just to keep Deadpool as a viable cinematic property, Disney would much rather tone him down a bit and just bring him into the MCU fold. If Ryan Reynolds and the Deadpool writing team(s) can't figure out how to retain his signature sense of humor and overall tone without shedding the overly crude R-rated elements, then I predict Deadpool is finished as a movie character. Disney has plenty of other billion-dollar franchises to work on; losing one would not make much of a dent in the grand scheme of things. But I think there's a good chance that a PG-13 Deadpool will still resonate with audiences, including a majority of diehard Deadpool fans, and he'll occupy his own successful corner of the MCU without much ongoing controversy.

[Pattern Ghost]

It'd be easy to fix the language in Deadpool and stick with the overall tone of the character: Every time he opens his mouth for a tirade, a train goes by, a foghorn goes off, or something else drowns him out. The character could start to notice after a couple of times, or the things drowning him out could become more absurd, etc., to the point of a moment of fourth wall breaking. Any halfway competent writer could work around the language issue.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Just having him be censored... and knowing it happens... fits the character too.

[Old Man]

Disney has a long history of releasing adult-oriented films; IIRC that's the entire reason Touchstone Pictures was created.  I'd expect Deadpool to be PG-13 in Marvel ensemble films and R in his own. 

 

Of course movie ratings themselves are highly variable.  I regularly argue with my wife as to whether it's okay to take the kids with us to see certain R movies.  Her values are exactly backwards--she has no problem with ultraviolence, gunplay, and suicide, but the portrayal of healthy same sex relationships bothers her, and God forbid the boys see a boob.

[zslane]

8 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Disney has a long history of releasing adult-oriented films; IIRC that's the entire reason Touchstone Pictures was created.  I'd expect Deadpool to be PG-13 in Marvel ensemble films and R in his own. 

 

Yeah, Disney has other distribution channels for adult-oriented fare. However, Marvel is not that kind of material, and it doesn't matter to Disney how Fox handled it in the past. To keep things simple, Feige will either fold a PG-13 version of Deadpool into the MCU, or he'll ditch the character (as a franchise) and just keep him for possible cameos in other movies. The PG-13 re-release of Deadpool 2 is the fulcrum over which that decision pivots.

[Pattern Ghost]

42 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Just having him be censored... and knowing it happens... fits the character too.

 

Yep. Easy thing to work around.

[Bazza]

By the sound of it after a little research, Disney's Streaming Service won't have any R-rated content -- that will go to Hulu. 

[Scott Ruggels]

I am hesitant to add Hulu because reasons. Disneynplay will be kind of a non starter for me at least at the beginning.  I will be happy with Netflix so far. 

[IndianaJoe3]

17 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Just having him be censored... and knowing it happens... fits the character too.

 

"Did I just say bleep instead of bleep?"

[megaplayboy]

If the 5 media giants all pulled their content, Netflix would be in big trouble.  But if they tried to have 5 non-overlapping streaming services with similar price points,  which would be quite expensive,  at least 2 of them would fail.

[Scott Ruggels]

Pretty much. 

[Bazza]

But don't tell them that. You can't tell them that. 

[Scott Ruggels]

Hell, I can only affor two plus internet. I have Netflix, for number two I am waffling between Crunchyroll and HBO GO for Game of Thrones. 

[Lord Liaden]

I just use an indoor antenna. Well, plus a bunch of other stuff I put around my antenna and TV, to focus more signal and block out EM interference. I get 30 channels that way, but of course none of these streaming services. But I don't watch much TV or movies anyway, so I don't really miss them.

[zslane]

 

17 hours ago, Bazza said:

By the sound of it after a little research, Disney's Streaming Service won't have any R-rated content -- that will go to Hulu. 

 

Um yeah, I explained this very same thing yesterday (quoted below for those who missed it the first time). (taps virtual microphone...) Is this thing on?

 

On 11/3/2018 at 9:53 AM, zslane said:

Disney Play will not contain any "mature" content, regardless of what filtering technology can do. It's all about the optics of the brand. Any R-rated content they acquire from Fox will end up on Hulu.

[Ternaugh]

4 hours ago, megaplayboy said:

If the 5 media giants all pulled their content, Netflix would be in big trouble.  But if they tried to have 5 non-overlapping streaming services with similar price points,  which would be quite expensive,  at least 2 of them would fail.

 

It's going to be a lot more than just 5 streaming services.

 

AT&T's WarnerMedia had, until recently, six streaming services. They've announced that they are shutting down three of them (DramaFever. Super Deluxe, and FilmStruck), and will be rolling out a new one in 2019 that will probably include stuff from DC, Warner, and HBO. As noted upthread, it looks like Disney will throw R-rated content to Hulu (which will be 60% theirs after the merger). 

 

Adding to the fun, AT&T has cut off Dish from carrying HBO content on their satellite service, in a dispute over fees. As this article notes, "Vertical integration means that you don't have to play nice with others anymore", and that this sort of thing will become increasingly common as the big media companies start to silo their content in their own services. There's a reason that old Hollywood was told to divest their movie theater chains back in the end of the 1940s, and this is beginning to smell like the 21st century version of the old Studio system.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I get what they want to do but people only have so much budget and time and 35 competing streaming services means a bunch of them are gonna fold up and die.  Every company thinks they can launch their own streaming service and rake in Scrooge McDuck money but it doesn't work that way.  Eventually I think most of them are going to die and just sell their content to other services.

[Greywind]

Franchise Wars!

[zslane]

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Eventually I think most of them are going to die and just sell their content to other services.

 

I kinda think that is the most likely outcome. I mean, I certainly hope it is. Naturally, we have to go through a few years of watching them fumble around until they realize they should have just stayed with the aggregators. I think Disney is really the only one with enough irresistible content and marketplace muscle to make their streaming service viable long term. I'd rather see the free market force the inevitable course correction rather than have the government step in the way they did with the movie studios back in the day. But who knows how long that will take; letting nature take its course can often be the slowest path to recovery.

[megaplayboy]

It reminds me of the confusing 32 bit gaming era when the market briefly held entries from Nintendo, Sony, Sega...and Atari, Panasonic,  Philipps, NeoGeo etc.

Ultimately the console market settled back into a long term dynamic of 2-3 dominant consoles and little else.

I expect it will be the same for streaming services. Somewhere between 3 and 9 will emerge as viable,  everything else will fail or else cater to niche markets. 

[Bazza]

I am doubtful of the content companies licensing their content to 3rd parties*. If their own vertical streaming services cease as a going concern, they would look to partner with each other. 

 

*a tech company like Apple may be an option. 

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, Greywind said:

Franchise Wars!

 

In the future all TV will be Taco Bell. 

 

I mostly see see these competing services as a parallel to distribution fights in other industries. Ultimately we’re going to want 3-5 competing services to package and deliver content. Much more than that results in a highly fragmented channel. And less than that... well, I can think of one industry that effectively went to one distributor for a while, and it almost put everyone involved out of business.