Does Champions need an intro campaign book?

[Fedifensor]

Tying in a conversation on this thread: one way to approach this would be to pre-build everything without showing all the advantages/limitations/math behind it. Basically I'm thinking more like a long list of Talents than the scratch-built Powers we're all used to, and then include a section on "Once you've mastered the basics, here's how to roll your own."I realize this is total Hero heresy, but I think it might help new players get up and running sooner. 

I would recommend doing that for the sample heroes handed out to the players, but then have the full sheets available for the GM.

[Scott Baker]

 

I found Viper's Nest after some diligent searching.  It was copyright 1982, so this is really old-school.  However, the adventures in it hold up, and it could easily be modified into an introductory Champions campaign.

 

It came in the Champions 2E boxed set.

[Tasha]

Perhaps a revamped Viper's Nest with a quick start version of the rules. The included PC's could be homages to the Cinematic Avengers. Build their backgrounds in such a way that they could be played as either gender without straining the background. The villains could be new characters or they could be the versions of the originals that appear in Champions Universe. Some characters aren't owned by Hero Games (ie Icicle and perhaps more). All characters will be very straight forward and simple builds. Also there should be some options for spending experience for each character. Like 3-4 things that would be powerups as they gain exp.

 

The quickstart rules will contain what it necessary to explain those powers and the combat rules. Characters shouldn't have more than a couple of levels AT MOST (most should just have OCV/DCV OMCV and DMCV. Skills should be explained in a brief way.  The quickstart rules should be as stripped as possible. I might even go as far as eliminating the SPD chart and assuming that all the PC's are the same SPD. 

The Download of the Adventure should also include a supplemental PDF that shows the characters with all of the costs included and the powers presented like any normal Champions product. I would also have a free Hero Designer character pack for all of the characters in the adventure.

This would be a great thing to have for Free RPG Day. 

 

If that one was successful, then a Fantasy Hero Complete Quickstart along the same lines could be made available.

[Ninja-Bear]

It came in the Champions 2E boxed set.

I found a copy for a dollar a few years back and I noticed that it was reprinted in Champions 3rd.

[Joe Walsh]

Making it compatible with the Basic book is problematic, due to all the good stuff they intentionally left out of Basic. But I agree with the rest.

 

It's probably not all that important to support Basic anyway. CC's the horse they're riding on these days, so it's probably best to focus support on that.

[zslane]

These are all really great ideas. I've felt for a long time now that the Hero System needs a product like this. The trick is, who is gonna write it? If there are any skilled writers who know the Hero System inside and out hanging out here, they don't seem too keen on stepping up to the plate.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think a few pathfinder-style Champions campaign arcs would be a great idea for the game.  Just let GMs plug things in and go.

[massey]

Perhaps a revamped Viper's Nest with a quick start version of the rules. The included PC's could be homages to the Cinematic Avengers. Build their backgrounds in such a way that they could be played as either gender without straining the background. The villains could be new characters or they could be the versions of the originals that appear in Champions Universe. Some characters aren't owned by Hero Games (ie Icicle and perhaps more). All characters will be very straight forward and simple builds. Also there should be some options for spending experience for each character. Like 3-4 things that would be powerups as they gain exp.

 

The quickstart rules will contain what it necessary to explain those powers and the combat rules. Characters shouldn't have more than a couple of levels AT MOST (most should just have OCV/DCV OMCV and DMCV. Skills should be explained in a brief way.  The quickstart rules should be as stripped as possible. I might even go as far as eliminating the SPD chart and assuming that all the PC's are the same SPD. 

 

The Download of the Adventure should also include a supplemental PDF that shows the characters with all of the costs included and the powers presented like any normal Champions product. I would also have a free Hero Designer character pack for all of the characters in the adventure.

 

This would be a great thing to have for Free RPG Day. 

 

If that one was successful, then a Fantasy Hero Complete Quickstart along the same lines could be made available.

 

I like this idea.  Building on the idea of having cinematic Avengers knock-offs, and ideas for how to spend their XP, perhaps each character could be given power-ups along the way as an example for the GM and the players so they have a better idea of how to incorporate this into the game.  For instance:

 

"Captain America has recently been thawed out of the ice from the 1940s.  He is still unfamiliar with modern society.  As a result, on Captain America's character sheet the following skills are grayed out: Mechanics, Electronics, Combat Piloting, Security Systems, Systems Operations.  These are skills he used to possess, but his unfamiliarity with modern tech leaves him without them.  By the end of session 5, Cap will have familiarized himself with modern equipment enough so that he will be able to add any two of these skills to his character sheet permanently."  (GM's note: Cap is built on the same amount of points as everyone else.  He will be using his experience points to purchase skills that he is "supposed" to have.  This method of character growth, where a character is assumed to have always been able to do the new thing he is doing, is a perfectly valid way of spending experience points.)

 

or

 

"Tony Stark has built a new Iron Man suit, the Mark IX.  One of the components of the Mark IX is an experimental EMP blaster.  This is listed on his character sheet in grayed out text.  However, Tony does not have the bugs worked out of the system yet, and so will not be able to use the EMP blaster until the end of session 4.  Tony is assumed to be working on the EMP blaster in his off time."  (GM's note:  Tony is built on the same amount of points as everyone else.  However, the EMP blaster will cost 25 points, double the amount of experience that Tony will have earned by the end of session 4.  Tony is being given an "advance" of experience points so that he can purchase the power early, for when the robot army attacks at the beginning of session 5.  It is acceptable to advance a player additional experience points, with GM approval, particularly for a power that benefits the group.  Tony, however, will be in debt to the GM, and all his additional XP will go towards paying off the EMP blaster until it is paid off.  This means Tony cannot purchase anything else until the end of session 9.)

[Ninja-Bear]

Tasha this book could take a page from Champions 3 and have the chracters have a Hero and Villian option.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Giving new players "power blocs" that they can choose from for spending xps on is a big help, I've found.  Suggest things along the lines of what they wanted and couldn't afford or make sense for the character when they get experience.  You can get this, or this, or this... or just make up something of your own.  Captain USA can learn to throw his shield, bouncing it off things and coming back to him, or he can learn to jump further using acrobatics, or he can get better body armor...

[IndianaJoe3]

It will surprise absolutely no-one that I think a hypothetical campaign book would be a perfect place to reprint the archetypes from the Superhero Gallery.

[Sketchpad]

I always thought that a book that helped emulate the comics would be a great addition to the Hero System library. Mind you, I also think that having Adventurer's Club resurface would be a great thing.

[bigdamnhero]

I think with the price of Champions Complete, Basic might be a dead horse

And good riddance IMO. I like CC/FHC much better.

[Tasha]

Tasha this book could take a page from Champions 3 and have the chracters have a Hero and Villian option.

 

That may be something you put in the Extra stuff document.

[Tasha]

Most of the stuff I am recommending comes from the Great Third Party Products available for Savage Worlds and the FFG Star Wars beginners boxes.

 

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing the old 17x22" Street map from both boxed sets. At one point HG did a reprint of the original map on glossy thickish paper that was nice.

 

The issue with actually putting together a product like this is that Writers, Artists, Printing etc costs money. Money that wouldn't be immediately returned for a free product. I don't think the company has the cash to do such a product. Perhaps if they ever did a Plot Point style Campaign book funded via kickstarter, they could do the introductory adventure as a stretch goal or as part of the main product. 

[assault]

There are plenty of old scenarios that have been out of print for 30 years or more. It wouldn't be difficult to update them for 6e.

 

With one exception - their maps tend to feature the old 2m hex grid. Getting rid of those would essentially require the maps to be totally redrawn. That's serious work and money.

[Joe Walsh]

The issue with actually putting together a product like this is that Writers, Artists, Printing etc costs money. Money that wouldn't be immediately returned for a free product. I don't think the company has the cash to do such a product. Perhaps if they ever did a Plot Point style Campaign book funded via kickstarter, they could do the introductory adventure as a stretch goal or as part of the main product. 

 

True. Honestly, at this point I don't expect Hero Games to do things like this. It'd be great, but it seems obvious that such things just aren't in the cards right now. They're in survival mode.

 

Perhaps one or more fans could get together and web-publish it, though.

[Tasha]

There are plenty of old scenarios that have been out of print for 30 years or more. It wouldn't be difficult to update them for 6e.

 

With one exception - their maps tend to feature the old 2m hex grid. Getting rid of those would essentially require the maps to be totally redrawn. That's serious work and money.

 

Not sure WHY they would have to get rid of the 2m hexes. 6e is setup to allow you to use any scale you like. Honestly, IMHO dropping 2m hexes makes the system a bit more complicated. People have no issues knowing that their 5-6 squares of movement in D&D = 30', Hero's 2m hexes are just as easy.

[Christopher R Taylor]

this probably would have to be either an independent publisher or a group effort from people here and on the facebook page.

 

So... how about it?  People here willing to put their money where their mouth is?  I can contribute some art and writing, even if I can't finish the whole thing.  Anyone else want to do some writing, some art, some editing, layouts, etc?  For free?  I think its worth it to help out the hobby, don't you?

[steriaca]

this probably would have to be either an independent publisher or a group effort from people here and on the facebook page.

 

So... how about it? People here willing to put their money where their mouth is? I can contribute some art and writing, even if I can't finish the whole thing. Anyone else want to do some writing, some art, some editing, layouts, etc? For free? I think its worth it to help out the hobby, don't you?

Of course I can write, but someone else has to check for spelling and grammar errors.

[Joe Walsh]

I have writing and editing experience and can contribute some time to this project.

[TheQuestionMan]

Battle Map Experienve Needed!

[Christopher R Taylor]

I guess I should do this as a separate thread, so its a distinct topic.

 

We could do faux Avengers like this:

Vulcan (the Thor variant, but based on the Roman god of blacksmithing etc)

Patriot (Captain America, my concept is a sort of eternal soldier from the founding of the USA who shows up at times of trouble, has artifacts and equipment from various time periods - Old Soldier in the Astro City comic is a template)

Ironmonger - (Iron man variant, but less about the playboy and more hard labor welder type)

William Tell - (Hawkeye with a crossbow, a big time street fights for the little guy against injustice etc type)

Shinobi - (Black Widow variant ninja type)

 

Specter (Vision basically a clone of the comic book version with phasing etc)

Hexxer (Scarlet Witch variant)

Slick (speedster with frictionless concept)

Peregrine (man with flight suit)

 

That keeps them close enough to type without being actually the same characters.  Its useful to have a lot of options so maybe some that are in the comics that never made it to the film, like Wasp, Giant Man, Wonder Man, Tigra, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, even Beast could be made into variants close enough to the original that a comics fan would know them.  I haven't read Avengers since like 1990 so I have no idea what the team is like now.

[Lucius]

Of course I can write, but someone else has to check for spelling and grammar errors.

That could be a full time job right there...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Like cleaning up after a palindromedary

[assault]

We could do faux Avengers like this:

 

Vulcan (the Thor variant, but based on the Roman god of blacksmithing etc)

Patriot (Captain America, my concept is a sort of eternal soldier from the founding of the USA who shows up at times of trouble, has artifacts and equipment from various time periods - Old Soldier in the Astro City comic is a template)

Ironmonger - (Iron man variant, but less about the playboy and more hard labor welder type)

William Tell - (Hawkeye with a crossbow, a big time street fights for the little guy against injustice etc type)

Shinobi - (Black Widow variant ninja type)

 

The only problem here is that it preserves/implies the genders of the original characters.