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To me the key point is not so much whether Congress can actually get legislation past Trump. It's whether they fulfill their constitutional responsibility to function as a branch of the government separate from the executive. McConnell is actively muzzling the Senate from even debating the issue unless he thinks Trump will agree to what they vote on, effectively turning them into the President's rubber stamp.

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Yes, Mitch, it would be pointless to see whether enough Senators will vote for even a single one of these bills to pass it, and then later to find out if enough will vote to override any veto Trump may make.

 

Voting is pointless.

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

McConnell is actively muzzling the Senate from even debating the issue unless he thinks Trump will agree to what they vote on, effectively turning them into the President's rubber stamp.

 

Which is why I'm thinking that McConnell's fate as Majority Leader may well be tied to Trump getting what he wants here.  

 

This is gonna continue for a while.  It's very much sounding like Trump's getting ready to play the National Emergency card too.  I'm thinking that's inevitable at this point, as neither side will move.  And then we will have hit the biggest Constitutional crisis in our history, IMO, and the biggest crisis as a country since the Civil War.

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5 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

A side thought here.  It's been opined that Trump's political future is fundamentally on the line here;  if he loses on the wall, he can kiss his re-election goodbye.  That's part of what's driving the intransigence, altho not all of it.  But he may not be the only one.  McConnell's future as Majority Leader might be as well.  He's Trump's right hand man on this, blocking the Senate from doing anything.

 

That was the opinion just voiced on The Daily wit Michael Barbaro. As the NY Times reporter Barbaro interviewed put it, the Republicans know they're on a bus headed for a cliff, but they still don't dare to get off.

 

Today, center-right pundit Kathleen Parker points out one group that gains from the shutdown: Identity thieves. She is experiencing this, as someone hacked her file at the Social Security Administration to have her monthly payment sent to something called a "Green Dot" account. But the offices that might correct this fraud are closed.

 

For her, so what? As she said, she has other income. What about an 87-year-old widow with no other income, who doesn't know who to call?

 

I dare say a number of business people are also happy that the FDA and EPA are shuttered. Those pesky regulators are such a hindrance to the pursuit of profit.

 

Dean Shomshak

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The silver lining, such as it is, is that the longer the shutdown continues, the more it will gradually dawn on people that gubmint actually does useful things like ensure food safety, inspect aircraft, and prevent dickheads from chopping down Joshua trees in national parks.  Among others.

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https://www.donotcall.gov/

has an interesting message

 

Due to the government shutdown, we are unable to offer this website service at this time. Information about unwanted calls can be found on the FTC’s website at: National Do Not Call Registry | Consumer Information

We will resume normal operations when the government is funded.

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I wish every article on the shutdown would mention that it started when Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, rather than trying to "show balance."

 

Journalists should point out that the Republican Senate passed a spending bill and then the Republican House rejected it.

 

Now the Democratic House has passed that same bill, and the Republican Senate refuses to consider it.

 

Back in December, Trump said he'd sign that same bill, then decided he'd rather please Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

 

It's very clearly not Democrats who made this problem. But now they're being told they need to be the ones to solve it -- by supporting something their base hates.

 

Both-sides-ism rules the American media, as always.

 

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8 hours ago, Old Man said:

Lots of Russian agents involved in the Steele dossier have already been liquidated in this fashion. It doesn’t really pay to work for Vladimir. 

 

So are you saying Putin's real name is Blofeld?

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On 1/11/2019 at 12:51 PM, GM Joe said:

I wish every article on the shutdown would mention that it started when Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, rather than trying to "show balance."

 

Journalists should point out that the Republican Senate passed a spending bill and then the Republican House rejected it.

 

Now the Democratic House has passed that same bill, and the Republican Senate refuses to consider it.

 

Back in December, Trump said he'd sign that same bill, then decided he'd rather please Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

 

It's very clearly not Democrats who made this problem. But now they're being told they need to be the ones to solve it -- by supporting something their base hates.

 

Both-sides-ism rules the American media, as always.

 

A number of articles in my local paper (mostly from the NY Times) have reminded readers of this background, as have some columns by pundits. So the both-sides-ism isn't absolute.

 

I do wish more stories would remind readers that while Democrats who oppose Trump's wall voted for border walls in the past, they voted for sections of wall, not for a wall along the entire Mexican border. And I haven't heard any Democratic legislator say they oppose funding any sort of border security -- just the coast-to-coast wall.

 

Dean Shomshak

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16 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

A number of articles in my local paper (mostly from the NY Times) have reminded readers of this background, as have some columns by pundits. So the both-sides-ism isn't absolute.

 

I do wish more stories would remind readers that while Democrats who oppose Trump's wall voted for border walls in the past, they voted for sections of wall, not for a wall along the entire Mexican border. And I haven't heard any Democratic legislator say they oppose funding any sort of border security -- just the coast-to-coast wall.

 

Good point; there are some journalists and editors doing good work out there!

 

And you're right, news reports fail to point out the subtleties of the D's position vis a vis walls.

 

That's why I end up being treated to rants from coworkers about how evil the D's are for shutting down the government instead of negotiating with Trump.

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