Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

I have to say, I've lost count of how many times I've seen candidates chosen for their "electability" fall flat for one reason or another.

[DShomshak]

19 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Yeah, he could have ordered the plant to stay open but offered to cover the medical expenses of any volunteers and granted half pay and guaranteed employment to those who wanted to stay home.

 

Instead he forbids the workers from any recourse to compensation in a suddenly high risk industry(which already had worker health issues before Covid-19) and protects the companies from any complaints or liability.

 

In discussing this, Marketplace noted that most of the workers at the plant it examined are Hispanic migrants or African refugees. So... Force brown people to work at a job that will kill them off? Presumably they can still quit, if they don't mind losing their income, but this is starting to look really ugly.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Cancer]

from Nature: Coronavirus as an opportunity to eviscerate environmental rules

[Lord Liaden]

Israel nears a point of no return

[Pariah]

[Old Man]

[Pariah]

I wonder what will become of this (if anything).

 

Rep. Justin Amash explores Libertarian presidential run

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

I wonder what will become of this (if anything).

 

Rep. Justin Amash explores Libertarian presidential run

 

Chances are low that anything will. Most such "explorations" end when the would-be candidate determines he/she has no chance of winning. Lacking support from one of the two major parties, Amash would need a high profile with positive name recognition, and personal deep pockets to bankroll a campaign machine. I don't see him gaining either of those in the foreseeable future.

[Badger]

pretty much Biden's only shot, is to hope some libertarians get fooled with it, though.

[Hermit]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

pretty much Biden's only shot, is to hope some libertarians get fooled with it, though.

 

I Would, of course, welcome that, but honestly? The HILARIOUS thing to happen and prove that 2020 is a collapsing sub-routine in the Matrix is if Amash runs... and WINS as a third party Candidate.

[TrickstaPriest]

So... Michigan.  I hear about protests and government overreach.  How much of that overreach is going on?  What is it?

[Old Man]

You see that image I posted six posts up? That. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

 

I Would, of course, welcome that, but honestly? The HILARIOUS thing to happen and prove that 2020 is a collapsing sub-routine in the Matrix is if Amash runs... and WINS as a third party Candidate.

 

Him getting 2+% would be.  I think the Perot mess might have killed 3rd parties for a couple of generations.

[Badger]

From what I can figure out, Michigan's governor is a one-person PR nightmare.  Other than that not sure, she has done much more than other governors.

 

Though, good chance, that governor will be called "Jameis" from now on,  because she probably has turned Michigan over to the GOP in November like a certain QB.

[Pariah]

Now now, let's not put all the blame on the Governor. Remember that Michigan also gave us Betsy DeVos, who's currently being sued because the Deprtment of Education is still garnishing wages of those who are behind on their student loans, even though the stimulus package specifically stated that that was going to stop until September.

 

(As if that were the only unpleasant result of DeVos' regime.)

[TrickstaPriest]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

From what I can figure out, Michigan's governor is a one-person PR nightmare.  Other than that not sure, she has done much more than other governors.

 

Just curious to what that is.  I have local friends freaking out over it, so I want to hear more about it so I can at least relate to what is being said (or disagree with it).  I can't really do either without someone seriously explaining what they are hearing.

 

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

Now now, let's not put all the blame on the Governor. Remember that Michigan also gave us Betsy DeVos, who's currently being sued because the Deprtment of Education is still garnishing wages of those who are behind on their student loans, even though the stimulus package specifically stated that that was going to stop until September.

 

Yep that's a whole other thing.

[Lord Liaden]

As far as I can tell from the news, Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer has been following the advice of health care scientists in maintaining a firm lockdown of her state by declaring a state of emergency. Her state legislature is attempting to pass restrictions on her power to do so, which she's expected to veto. She's publicly refused and criticized President Trump's call for an earlier opening of the state's economy, for which she's been criticized by state and federal Republicans, and been on the receiving end of Trump's tweetgun, including provocative comments which probably galvanized the lockdown protests in the state.

 

Whitmer is a Democrat. Michigan's legislature is currently dominated by Republicans. Michigan is also polling as a swing state in the upcoming presidential election. To me that looks to be the basis for accusations of Whitmer's "overreach." If Whitmer ends up committing political suicide in order to save lives, I will have to commend her. But it's not insignificant that her name is being bruited about as a possible Biden vice-presidential pick.

[Tom]

5 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

So... Michigan.  I hear about protests and government overreach.  How much of that overreach is going on?  What is it?

 

Probably the signs telling me I have to wear a mask when I go into stores when I'm north of the border...

 

(Fortunately for me, not that I think anyone is actually enforcing it, I've got the mask my Mom made for me in my clipboard for just such an occasion).

[wcw43921]

Lockdown Protestor Carries Sign With Nazi Slogan

[DShomshak]

If anyone's interested, a few days back The Daily (With Michael Barbaro) interviewed both Gov. Whitmer and one of the protesters, giving them both a chance to make their points. Which they did, quite reasonably. This particular protester, however, talked about the business of which his is VP,, which does animal and pest control. He is quite sure the work can be done without an employee coming anywhere near other people. He said he was not happy to find various wackadoodles also showing up the protest. Gov. Whitmer, OTOH, talked about the dangers of *anyone* going *anywhere* -- her example was the gas pump handle everybody touches and so could pass the virus from person to person.

 

I can't say either of them was flat-out wrong. But Mister Pest Control was only responsible for a small group of employees, whereas Whitmer is responsible for everyone in Michigan -- and must make decisions based on a significant fraction of those people being complete idiots.

 

Dean Shomshak

[TrickstaPriest]

23 hours ago, DShomshak said:

I can't say either of them was flat-out wrong. But Mister Pest Control was only responsible for a small group of employees, whereas Whitmer is responsible for everyone in Michigan -- and must make decisions based on a significant fraction of those people being complete idiots.

 

This is a really important concept a lot of people don't get.  Both in terms of the difference in responsibilities, and that neither party was exactly wrong.

 

Keep in mind it's also about concentration.  I did some pretty idiotic things at the start of this mess, and when I was sick.  Not taking off my shoes after coming back from the hospital was just one of the stupid things I did.

[Ternaugh]

"We're all playing a very complicated game of chess or poker. Name whatever you want to name. But it's not checkers. That I can tell you. We have a very complicated game going."

[Old Man]

Because Fox News wasn't loyal enough

[Badger]

On 5/3/2020 at 5:45 PM, DShomshak said:

If anyone's interested, a few days back The Daily (With Michael Barbaro) interviewed both Gov. Whitmer and one of the protesters, giving them both a chance to make their points. Which they did, quite reasonably. This particular protester, however, talked about the business of which his is VP,, which does animal and pest control. He is quite sure the work can be done without an employee coming anywhere near other people. He said he was not happy to find various wackadoodles also showing up the protest. Gov. Whitmer, OTOH, talked about the dangers of *anyone* going *anywhere* -- her example was the gas pump handle everybody touches and so could pass the virus from person to person.

 

I can't say either of them was flat-out wrong. But Mister Pest Control was only responsible for a small group of employees, whereas Whitmer is responsible for everyone in Michigan -- and must make decisions based on a significant fraction of those people being complete idiots.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

I think one reason she has looked bad, is she seems to have a knack (from the little I have seen of her on TV-which is like twice) when answering questions about the protests, to be demeaning towards people wanting to open things up.  (aka frayed nerves on both sides I think)

[Lord Liaden]

"Frayed nerves" is a fair point to consider. Whitmer has to be under tremendous pressure from all sides, and I doubt diplomacy was getting her very far. In addition to her constituents with legitimate concerns and viewpoints, she also has to deal with idiots, as well as a hostile state legislature and federal government.