Birds of Prey (2020)

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Cassandra said:

 

Rosalind Russell, Ella Raines, Joan Crawford

 

Indeed, I've got to mention Bette Davis when Crawford gets mentioned, to make sure her spirit doesn't come for vengeance on us all. 

[ScottishFox]

Saw this with my daughter last night.

 

The tomatometer for it is quite high, but we both HATED it.

 

I'm trying to think of a worse movie I've seen in the last few years and maybe recency is a factor, but I can't think of one.

 

The characters are all awful.  Just. God. Awful.  Any of them could have taken a bullet to the forehead at any point in the film and I would not have cared.

 

In fairness the fight choreography was quite good and some of the stunt work was amazing.

 

If you wait awhile and it's playing for free on TV - skip it.

[Hermit]

12 hours ago, Badger said:

 

on a serious note,  that is one thing that bothers me with current cinema.   You can back throughout cinema history and find  strong female characters  (hell, like 99% of Maureen O'Hara* characters alone, for example) who were compelling characters.    Girl Power has become a way to make a "strong" female character without making them compelling, or strong for that matter (other than as an informed attribute)

 

*I could also go with Barbara Stanwyck, Katherine Hepburn, and a half a dozen others.

 

 

 

If I could give a shout out to a more recent character who was compelling and strong...and female? 

 Mako Mori from Pacific Rim.  She had a back story of her own separate from the male protagonist, she had her own hopes and ambitions, she was polite but firm. She loved her adoptive dad, and was as dedicated to the mission as any other in the program- a true professional without being a jerk to people. She was interesting in and of herself, and yet, and I can't stress this enough, the writers didn't have her throw other characters in a pit just so she could stand taller. Even her reasons for  sparring with Raleigh was clear, professional, and damn he did ask her opinion.  She wasn't perfect, she had flaws, but she overcame them with determination.

 

Props to Raleigh too by the way. He didn't want her as co pilot because she was cute, he wanted her there because she was the right person for the job and it was a waste to have her benched!  This was a male character who could have been written as profoundly insecure about having a woman who was his equal (or better in some areas), instead he was impressed and supported her own desire to be a pilot because he saw she had every right to it and they need good pilots. 

 

Mako Mori was an action girl, and a rather quiet dignified example of Girl Power done right imo.

 

 

[Hermit]

31 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

Saw this with my daughter last night.

 

The tomatometer for it is quite high, but we both HATED it.

 

I'm trying to think of a worse movie I've seen in the last few years and maybe recency is a factor, but I can't think of one.

 

The characters are all awful.  Just. God. Awful.  Any of them could have taken a bullet to the forehead at any point in the film and I would not have cared.

 

In fairness the fight choreography was quite good and some of the stunt work was amazing.

 

If you wait awhile and it's playing for free on TV - skip it.

 

Thanks for the head's up. May I ask what was awful about them? Were they just unlikable and unrelatable as characters, or was it the acting or a mix of both?

[ScottishFox]

51 minutes ago, Hermit said:

Thanks for the head's up. May I ask what was awful about them? Were they just unlikable and unrelatable as characters, or was it the acting or a mix of both?

 

Mostly it's the unlikable characters.  The acting was fine for the most part though the pickpocket child is Anakin Skywalker bad in the acting department.

 

The plot was beyond weak.  It was Batman not killing Superman because both of their mothers are named Martha weak.

 

The three ladies who become the Birds of Prey are so "meh" that there is no way they can spin even a TV show off of it.

 

Edit:  My daughter disliked it so much she was actually MAD at me for taking her.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

11 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

My daughter disliked it so much she was actually MAD at me for taking her.

 

I have a friend whose daughter stood up in a theater and shouted, "I can't believe you brought your daughter to THIS!" *

 

 

*Different movie, though. 

[Lord Liaden]

13 hours ago, Badger said:

 

on a serious note,  that is one thing that bothers me with current cinema.   You can back throughout cinema history and find  strong female characters  (hell, like 99% of Maureen O'Hara* characters alone, for example) who were compelling characters.    Girl Power has become a way to make a "strong" female character without making them compelling, or strong for that matter (other than as an informed attribute)

 

*I could also go with Barbara Stanwyck, Katherine Hepburn, and a half a dozen others.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Cassandra said:

 

Rosalind Russell, Ella Raines, Joan Crawford

  

10 hours ago, Badger said:

 

Indeed, I've got to mention Bette Davis when Crawford gets mentioned, to make sure her spirit doesn't come for vengeance on us all. 

 

All products of an era when women weren't expected to be strong the way men are shown as strong, by beating people up.   Women in movies then showed strength by being smart, sophisticated, in control of themselves and their social environment. They could be sexual, too (just not graphic about it), but that was also something they used for themselves, when and how they wanted to.

 

Fictional women protagonists today must be shown to be competitive with men in every arena, no matter how obviously improbable that may be just comparing the physicality of a given male and female.

[Starlord]

Princess Leia was a bada$$.

[Lord Liaden]

Certainly a better shot than Luke or Han.

[ScottishFox]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Fictional women protagonists today must be shown to be competitive with men in every arena, no matter how obviously improbable that may be

 

If it were only competitive there'd probably be less grumbling on my part.

 

I would replace competitive with "vastly superior" and without requiring training, super powers or some other plot device that explains it.

 

120lb girl smashing 300lb brute's head into a wall repeatedly while he....just...stands there and let's it happen for no reason?

 

Also, there must have been 20 or more groin shots in this film.  Just over and over and over.  Boots, bats, hammers, bean bag guns.  Gratuitous ball busting.

[Starlord]

In fairness, you can't ask for logic in your fight scenes and then be upset that girls go for the most vulnerable spot. 

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

  

 

All products of an era when women weren't expected to be strong the way men are shown as strong, by beating people up.   Women in movies then showed strength by being smart, sophisticated, in control of themselves and their social environment. They could be sexual, too (just not graphic about it), but that was also something they used for themselves, when and how they wanted to.

 

Fictional women protagonists today must be shown to be competitive with men in every arena, no matter how obviously improbable that may be just comparing the physicality of a given male and female.

 

of course, strength, comes in many variations, which probably speaks to modern Hollywood lack of vision.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

In fairness, you can't ask for logic in your fight scenes and then be upset that girls go for the most vulnerable spot. 

 

well, if I get in a fight, I am going for the most vulnerable spot.  I fight to win.  No such thing as dirty fighting for me.

[Cassandra]

Suicide Squad came out four years ago?

[Cassandra]

26 minutes ago, Badger said:

 

well, if I get in a fight, I am going for the most vulnerable spot.  I fight to win.  No such thing as dirty fighting for me.

 

I see you interned for Frank Underwood.

[Cassandra]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Certainly a better shot than Luke or Han.

 

And every stormtrooper.

[Scott Ruggels]

The trailer turned me off. Cassandra's take was the same as mine. What I said in The Discord got me a warning. But I will say it here as it is just my opinion. I will not go see another modern feminist power fantasy.  Usually they have a lot of angry Mary Sues.  The two main indicators of such movies are, all men are bad or incompetent, and the protagonists  have limited if any flaws. Wonder Woman was not this as she dealt with her male colleagues as individuals, and she was mislead by her idealism, and inexperience with the world. This idealism was contrasted by Hypolita's cynicism , but it inspired those around Diana. 

[Scott Ruggels]

6 hours ago, ScottishFox said:

Saw this with my daughter last night.

 

The tomatometer for it is quite high, but we both HATED it.

 

I'm trying to think of a worse movie I've seen in the last few years and maybe recency is a factor, but I can't think of one.

 

The characters are all awful.  Just. God. Awful.  Any of them could have taken a bullet to the forehead at any point in the film and I would not have cared.

 

In fairness the fight choreography was quite good and some of the stunt work was amazing.

 

If you wait awhile and it's playing for free on TV - skip it.

The Tomatometer lies. You have to separate the real critics mostly from newspapers, from the fawning courtiers of the online access media. Even the audience score is unreliable for any Disney Company film. The audience scor for SW:TROS has been a fixed 86% audience score, since they purges and reset the score in the first few days of release. 

 

Nick Lasalle, critic for The San Francisco Chronicle called it the worst movie he has seen this year. 

https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/movies-tv/review-movies-dont-get-any-worse-than-birds-of-prey-this-is-the-bottom

[Ninja-Bear]

I was just thinking about how many old Kung Fu movies had women who could fight. Yeah they may never beat the Hero or the main villain. Though to be fair how many heroes did it take to defeat a villain in some movies-never one on one. 

[slikmar]

19 hours ago, Badger said:

 

well, they did have to go with the Suicide Squad reboot of Harley Quinn.  Which I describe as "stripper raggedy Anne".

 

Not saying the movie isn't bad, but I will say again. The Harley Quinn she is playing is straight from the comics of the last 7-8 years. She separated from Joker (in one instance violently), was trying to do good in her own crazy as a loon/punisher style and had even taken a job at a senior citizens home as a counselor as Harlene Quinzelle (of course turned out the home was for retired secret agents). But saying they took a character you loved due to the animated series and ruined her for the movie is wrong. The Harley you are speaking of hasn't been around for 10 years, so blaming the movies is wrong. Heck, the comic/movie version of batman hasn't been that version of the character for 10 years.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, slikmar said:

Not saying the movie isn't bad, but I will say again. The Harley Quinn she is playing is straight from the comics of the last 7-8 years. She separated from Joker (in one instance violently), was trying to do good in her own crazy as a loon/punisher style and had even taken a job at a senior citizens home as a counselor as Harlene Quinzelle (of course turned out the home was for retired secret agents). But saying they took a character you loved due to the animated series and ruined her for the movie is wrong. The Harley you are speaking of hasn't been around for 10 years, so blaming the movies is wrong. Heck, the comic/movie version of batman hasn't been that version of the character for 10 years.

I do believe and agree with Badger that the movie took a great character from a great animated series and ruined it because the crapics of the last 7-8 years were not about HQ.  They were a desperate attempt by hack writers to try and piggyback listless garbage on the back of a great concept.

The movie just ensured that the character will never recover from the garbage bin.

[slikmar]

And I would disagree. I liked the Harley from those comics and enjoyed reading her solo comics. They tried to explore her trying not to be the female Joker. In a lot of ways, she became DC's Deadpool, breaking 4th walls and the comics laughing at her and others.

[Ranxerox]

Just got back from seeing it.  This movie is the cinematic equivalent of twinkies drizzled with chocolate; absolutely no nutritional value but still fun.

 

Harley Quinn, Renee Montoya and the Huntress all made it onto the screen pretty much intact. All other characters are clearly the DC cinematic universe versions and share little in common with comic book counterparts.  Personally, I was willing to accept them as elseworld variants and enjoy them on there own terms.  YMMV.

 

I had a lot of fun at this movie.  Despite having a large ice tea right before the movie the movie I made no trips to the bathroom.  I always wanted to see what was going to happen next, so I just held it.  I would be willing to watch this movie a second time if I had someone to see it with.

 

👍👍  

[Badger]

6 hours ago, Cassandra said:

 

I see you interned for Frank Underwood.

 

Heh, actually I stylized my philosophy from the high school survival guide. 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, slikmar said:

Not saying the movie isn't bad, but I will say again. The Harley Quinn she is playing is straight from the comics of the last 7-8 years. She separated from Joker (in one instance violently), was trying to do good in her own crazy as a loon/punisher style and had even taken a job at a senior citizens home as a counselor as Harlene Quinzelle (of course turned out the home was for retired secret agents). But saying they took a character you loved due to the animated series and ruined her for the movie is wrong. The Harley you are speaking of hasn't been around for 10 years, so blaming the movies is wrong. Heck, the comic/movie version of batman hasn't been that version of the character for 10 years.

 

I am at least vaguely aware of what has occurred with her character in recent comics.  Let's leave at decent concept*, horrible execution.

 

*Joker is an abusive pile of crap, let's be honest.  So, I definitely like the idea of her getting away from him.