So how did you guys learn the system?

[Lucius]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Thanks for the idea guys!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary expects that the next one will be for Teen Champions. "How I Learned Hero System, at least well enough to pass the class"

[Lucius]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

This was the third first-person introduction to the Hero System you posted here.

I think I'll soon have to start a thread just to collect all these introductions.

Keep 'em coming.

 

Really?

 

"How I Learned Hero System

 

by Max Mini

 

The basics were easy to learn. I had already played Melee and Wizard,

and then Superworld, so a lot of the concepts were not new. But I really

began to feel like I knew the system after attending the Goodman School

of Cost Effectiveness.

 

Some of those lessons have stayed with me ever since. After "The Joy of

DEX" it was a long time before I considered building a superhero with

less than 23 DEX. "CON Builds Strong Bodies Five Ways" was a real

eye-opener too. Both of course built on the mandatory freshman class on

using breakpoints, "Don't Get Even, Get Odd." I learned that 13 is

really a very lucky number. It still is, even now that they've taken

much of the joy out of DEX and severely amended the CONstitution. Some

of what I learned is obsolete - I no longer consider 17" Flight the

ideal movement power - but some things will probably always be valid,

like getting odd numbered Movement to catch a break on the Half Move.

 

My education took a new turn due to a special project I did for

an advanced class. I built a spaceship as a Base, and then (because a

Base couldn't have a Movement) spent Base points on a Vehicle to be the

starship's engine (I hoped the Vehicle had enough STR; there were no

formal rules for calculating the weight of a Base, but I never intended

this ship to go into a gravity well either) and then spent Vehicle

points for an AI to pilot and otherwise control it. I even bought

Grounds with Costs END, to put a kind of force shield around the whole

thing. The instructor inspected the whole facility, questioned the

computer, and looked over the blue prints, and then said "You have a

Computer nested in the Vehicle, nested in the Base. That means 1

Character Point invested buys 125 points of Computer. I'm not sure which

would make you more dangerous - if you knew what you were doing or if

you didn't."

 

That's how I got transferred - and a scholarship! - to the Badman School

of Minimaxing, part of the Munchkin Institute of Emerald City. Just

passing the entrance exam weeds out a lot of people; "Destroy the World

on 75 Character Points or Less." I built a missile capable of cracking

an Earth sized planet that only cost 5 pts. Try doing THAT under Fifth

Edition or later! The good old days are gone; but truly, "There were

munchkins in the Earth in those days....the same became mighty

characters which were of old, heroes of renown."

 

The Goodman School was a lot of fun, but the Badman School was really

wild. Whether you had Gambling or not, everyone played the STUN Lottery;

except in places where it was regulated or forbidden, you could see it

all over the campus and around town too. And everybody won, too, because

the only real way to lose the STUN Lotto was not to play. That part of

campus life changed radically in the last year, and the debate goes on

as to whether it's still worth playing the STUN Lottery or not.

 

Martial Arts tournaments are still popular, in categories ranging from

75+75 on up. The basic Martial Arts course offered is "Fighting with

Style." Everyone wants Martial Arts because they're so efficient, and

because the Style Disadvantage is widely viewed as free points. I mean,

seriously, when have you ever known anyone to actually be disadvantaged

by it?

 

Even more popular was Normal Characteristic Maxima. Some people made it

a point of pride to take that WITHOUT the Defender Exploit, because

either way it was a munchkin's favorite thing - more free points. If a

character didn't have Normal Characteristics, people thought there was

something abnormal about it. That's one more thing that's changing;

places like FREDerick Hall still have Normal Characteristics and the

STUN Lottery, but sooner or later most of the rest of campus is going

with the New Regime.

 

When I joined the faculty, FREd WAS the New Regime. The biggest addition

to the curriculum then was the class "Forewarned is Four Armed" and

that's why the Badman School is full of mutants and aliens with

prehensile tails, martial artists with Contortionist who can use their

feet like hands, and any other excuse for Extra Limbs you can think of.

It's been several years but I'm still astonished that the Rules as

Written let you put "Not with Extra Limbs" or "Only with Extra Limbs" as

a Limitation on STR and DEX. It would be so easy to have changed the

rule to say that the Limitation must be put on the Extra Limbs Power -

why hasn't that been done? I don't know. Maybe the Powers that Be really

love Munchkins after all and take care to leave loopholes for us like

that. What other explanation is there?

 

Sometimes I wonder if, someday, all these loopholes will be closed up;

it wouldn't be that hard. There'll probably always be a Badman School,

but we would be reduced to researching dodgy applications for rules like

the 5 pts doubling rule or Advantages like Inherent and Megascale,

things that have a legitimate use but have to be watched carefully.

 

And we know about careful watching. I do sometimes have to expell a

student for cheating. We are vigilant and ruthless in protecting the

good name of Badman's. A house rule is fine (and we have many fine

houses, used to call them Fraternities but they're all co-ed now so we

call them Geek Houses) and a bent rule okay if it bends back, but broken

rules are not acceptable. The "convenient" math error, the deliberate

misinterpretation, the outright lie, are not welcome. After all, they

shouldn't be necessary when the Rules as Written have loopholes I can

pilot a flying four armed giant robot through.

 

So until the loopholes are no longer tolerated, there's room for me

here. And every day I meditate upon the motto inscribed in Munchkin blue

over the emerald gates: "What is given away freely, cannot be stolen."

 

How true that is.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises

[Opal]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Well, I learned the Hero System - actually Champions! 1st ed - by reading the book and making characters for about a year, without being able to convince any of my gamer friends to try it out. I heard about Champions from an acquaintance in high school (I was pretty young), who said it was amazing because it could handle anything from a high-tech sci-fi hero to a fantasy barbarian. I also read a review of it in The Dragon (I started with D&D) that made it sound pretty good. I was quite taken with the point-build/effects-based aproach.

 

By the time I got to play, the 2nd ed was already out (though I never got my own copy) so things were pretty confusing for a while. I got to try out one of my characters at a convention with, of all people, George McDonald. That was something of a revelation. Finally, in '84, I found a group willing to play Champions! (now 3rd ed) on a regular basis. When 4th hit, I was convinced that the finally-unifed Hero System was the best RPG ever made. I've yet to see anyting challenge that conclusion. Sadly, that includes 6th ed....

[Utensil]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

back when it was first released. Alot of my friends got married and thier wives could not stand D&D, so when Champions came along we all got into super hero mode. That was over two decades ago and then some. Only recently have i merged my D&D campaign world with Hero Game System, it been a challenge and then some. Also having super heroes in a world that was previously predominately sword and sorcery has added much richness to my campaign of some 30 years of playing role playing games.

[ghost-angel]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

(because a Base couldn't have a Movement)

 

Yes they can.

 

 

(BTW, 1st person intro story bits are entertaining.)

[Lucius]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Yes they can.

 

 

(BTW, 1st person intro story bits are entertaining.)

 

I seem to recall that in 4th Edition, no, they couldn't.

 

If you read carefully, I think you can tell that at that point in Max Mini's tale, he was using that edition, or earlier.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks about moving bases - since when is that legal?

[Matt Holck]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

extra limbs cost10 points per limb and gave +1 OCV in HTH combat

5 points if put into an elemental

Somewhat handy but not under priced

[Susano]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I seem to recall that in 4th Edition, no, they couldn't.

 

If you read carefully, I think you can tell that at that point in Max Mini's tale, he was using that edition, or earlier.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks about moving bases - since when is that legal?

 

Since you call it a really big vehicle.

[ghost-angel]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I seem to recall that in 4th Edition, no, they couldn't.

 

If you read carefully, I think you can tell that at that point in Max Mini's tale, he was using that edition, or earlier.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks about moving bases - since when is that legal?

 

Huh.... apparently we house ruled that completely away.

[Lucius]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

For some reason I wrote this but never got around to posting it.

 

How I Learned Hero System

By Sid Screwdriver AKA Harbinger of Game Balance

 

It wasn't easy, lemmetelya. I started learning Skills, one by one – Conversation, Streetwise, Bugging. I learned to Shadow someone while Driving and while walking, and when I was spotted I learned real quick about OCV vs DCV and how much damage it took to Stun me and other aspects of the combat system. One guy with a gun taught me about Killing Attacks and how important it is to have Resistant Defenses, and I was able to do a little re-writing and use the Distinctive Features: Bullet Scar to help pay for some Combat Luck, so I've got the equivalent of armor even if you catch me stark naked.

 

I got Interrogation and bought up my PREsence, and kept adding things up piece by piece. I managed to get one guy in the know right where I wanted him, on top of a skyscraper with me between him and the only safe way down. “You can either tell me about Falling Damage, or I can find out the hard way. Hard for you, that is.”

 

I've always had Psych Lim: Stubborn, roughing me up just makes me more determined. When three big bruisers worked me over with baseball bats just because I was asking about the adding damage rules, I knew I was on the right track. Lemmetellya, I've spent so much time in GM's Option, I've thought about spending points on a Base to have a vacation home there.

 

Along the way I did the cops enough favors I got some freebie Perks. That got me some alone time with a suspect they pulled in that I wanted to talk to real badly. He was handcuffed to his chair – they weren't taking chances – and I was seated at the other end of a long table. I showed him what I'd smuggled in. I had a sap – that's like a leather sack full of lead shot, if you don't know – and a wicked looking knife.

 

“Signature weapons,” I said, “I paid my own Character Points for 'em, so I know exactly how they work and what they cost. Even got fancy and bought a Naked Advantage, Range Based on STR, 1 Charge Recoverable with Lockout, so I don't even have to stand up and walk around the table if I wanna hit you. Now, if it was me in that chair and I knew one of these was coming, I know which one I DON'T want.” I slammed the blade point first into the table and let it quiver there. “If you know that one's a Killing Attack and one's just Normal, it's freaking OBVIOUS which one is more likely to mess you up worse. I don't need Science: Mathematics to add that up. But they cost the same points. I got one question for you mister, and that question is, WHY?”

 

Lemmetellya, that man was the hardest of all hard cases. All I got was “I want my lawyer” and the maddening “I'm sorry, I don't answer game design or philosophy questions.” When I finally snarled in frustration “Can't you say anything else?” he smiled for the first time, a little twitch of the lips, and said “I could give you name, rank, and serial number.” I was in the presence of greatness, or at least a really great PREsence. And that guy's EGO has got to define the Campaign Max.

 

I finally called a guard and got out before I had to rewrite my character and put an Enraged on it. But I had my answer; it was in what he didn't say. What I learned that day keeps me up nights, and if sometimes I get a little more brutal than I need to be when the rough stuff goes down, it's because that knowledge is inside me all the time, eating at me. But I can't quit, not yet.

 

At least not until I save enough XP to buy off that “Too Stubborn for His Own Good” Disad and maybe buy a home in a better neighborhood than “GM's Option.”

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises

[Zen Archer]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

What little I learned was from doing.

 

Played a few one-off games at local cons and with friends. From there, I got into a group that played it regularly, which is where I got into the nitty-gritty of chargen.

[Robot_Nixon]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Well, I learned with the first edition, and the core combat rules have remained very simple. But for a truly uninitiated player all the possibilities of full blown Champions game can be a bit daunting. So, I teach them using campaigns with minimal aspects of hero system included, such as; wild west, military, or spy genres. None of these include powers, magic, or cybernetics, or for that matter not much beyond the basic parts of character creation, skills, and combat. So they can learn the core systems without all the exceptions and options. Once the players get a good feel for that I will run a space or cybernetic campaign that allows me to introduce a very limited subset of the powers, with very strict creation rules mainly through the use of technological equipment and cybernetics which are typically fixed in what powers they use and how much power they have. This gives them familiarity with the powers system but doesn't ask them to make or modify any themselves or worry about frameworks or other 'advanced' power topics. Next up might be a low magic fantasy or horror/cthulhu campaign where the players get more familiar with powers as spells that they can start to modify using the power rules to make higher powered/altered versions of their starting spells. Finally we break out the high magic fantasy or Champions campaign and they can make everything from scratch.

 

I've done this a few times, and the players always seem to have a better grasp of the rules than the ones that get thrown into a full Champions of Fantasy Hero game. They also seem to retain the information longer. Obviously YMMV, and if you are working with a group that is catching on quickly (and not just saying so) you can skip a campaign or step (though why would you? they are all great fun) and if the group is struggling to catch on, have the campaign focus on the area they are having trouble with. More combat, have them roll up a sidekick/contact with your supervision, or start making a few spells you can review and add to your fantasy campaign.

 

Just remember for all the pages in the books and all the flexibility of the rules the core combat is deceptively simple.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I remember picking up the first edition. I had played AD&D and Runequest and we had a club at school. I remember some of the younger boys asking me to run superheroes and I went to Glasgow and picked up Champions.

 

I read through the book and it was definitely NOT love at first sight. It horrified the fledgling gamer in me and the book sat in my room for almost two years before the constant nagging to run a game became almost impossible to ignore. It was with some trepidation that I put together the first characters - a martial artist and a growth based brick. I fought them on the hex map provided in the box set. It was difficult but I slowly got to grips with the things that were important.

 

I then went and made some characters with the players. There were four of them and the characters they made were horribly designed but the assets of the system shone through. When Black Ninja was kicked through the walls of the house next to the bank by Titan (I made use of the original characters as villains) the player was resigned to writing up a new character. When I told him that Black Ninja shook his head, felt a bit shaken by the experience but both STUN and BODY were above zero and so he could act, it immediately FELT like superheroes...

 

That presaged a four year campaign. All of the characters played that day survived through most of that time, but I found that I had to be very flexible in allowing those characters to be re-designed several times as we better understood the rules and as supplements CHAMPIONS II and III added cool stuff.

 

I cannot imagine the horror of approaching today's game when I can remember my incomprehension at that first slim volume!

 

 

Doc

[Kraven Kor]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

A friend introduced me to HERO, 4th edition, back in 1996 or so. He ran me and some buddies in a "goofy super heroes" game. When I returned home, I tracked down a copy of the "Big Blue Book" and tried to get people to play. Then I kind of "learned while doing" over the next 10 years or so, on the rare occasions I could convince a group to try anything other than D&D or WOD games. The release of Hero Designer software was probably the greatest tool I had for learning the system, to be honest, so far as power / character creation. And I have learned more in the last 2 years than all the time before that, having had a more or less steady HERO game going for most of that time.

[Orion]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

1985 - summer before college - I went to visit some friends in another state and they convinced me to play Champions rather than AD&D, which is all I knew back then. I described the type of character I wanted (power armor), and they helped me design it. Within a year I had bought my own copy of the boxed set of Champions v2, and the Champions II and III supplements, and started playing Champions and Fantasy Hero at the local college. I never thought it was hard to learn, or that the math was anything but trivial. And once I did find the game, AD&D was relegated to the back of the closet, and only pulled out under duress.

[Jhamin]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Hmm. I notice that 5 pages into this thread I've seen maybe two or three people that came into the game in 5th or 6th editions.

 

That can't be good for the future of the system...... Eventually all the folks that started in 1st or 2nd are going to get too senile to teach anyone new.

[Ozymandias]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Hmm. I notice that 5 pages into this thread I've seen maybe two or three people that came into the game in 5th or 6th editions.

 

That can't be good for the future of the system...... Eventually all the folks that started in 1st or 2nd are going to get too senile to teach anyone new.

 

I came in 5th, then quickly switched over to 6th (My friend who works in a Game store noticed he had a "damaged" set of 6e books, which amounted to a couple scratches and dents on the cover). I don't think it's too hard to learn those editions, but for me, the character creation is a bit lengthy, so I'll usually take a base from pregenerated characters, and modify it a bit. That's my one main problem with the system. I'm busy during the week, so writeups are difficult. Though this problem may be a bit more aggravated for me, since our GM has taken GM hiatus, which means we've had one shots for the past few weeks.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

..... Eventually all the folks that started in 1st or 2nd are going to get too senile to teach anyone new.

 

Hey, there is no such thing as too senile. And get off my lawn!!

[Enforcer84]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Bought Champions in 1984...I was actually hoping to buy Superworld but it wasn't at the hobby shop. My brother bought Villains & Vigilantes and we set about playing. Having been weened on D&D I at first attempted to roll stats...making characters was done before reading the game...once I figured out no die rolling for stats I built a few characters where I sold back things I didn't think I needed (expensive things like Dex and SPD and bought the stuff I wanted...mostly to avoid spending more than my 100 base points...

 

then I shared the book with a friend and we ran a few combats where my 60 STR 6 DEX 1 SPD brick spent the bulk of the fight wishing I'd Read the Flippin' Mannual.

 

Campions II and Champions III came out soon after, and we added Danger International Martial Arts and skills, because Advanced Karate was betters than Martial Arts x11/2. (I thank Aaron Allston's Strike Force for that - we hadn't thought of using more skills and stuff until his book came out) The Big Blue Book came out my junior year of high school I believe maybe the year before...and it was...the perfect storm. My close nit group played in five awesome campaigns over the next 2.5 years and it was really the high point of my RPG for the longest time. I'd have to say my most recent group was awesome but HERO was not really one of their favorite games. Maybe I'll get into a game in my new town.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I first picked up Champions in the second edition, I think (blue box, grey book cover). I puttered around with it, creating characters and running sample combats, but never played it. That changed when I got to college and met some other people that had it. The BBB came out shortly thereafter and it was off to the races!

[Ndreare]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I pick up the BBB and some friends and I got together. I do not recal actually player supers for months, instead we bought Fantasy Hero and played several years of Fantasy Hero before ever getting around to supers.

 

To top it off none of us ever even read the rules until fifth ed came out. We learned all the rules from a DOS styled program called HERO Maker.

 

This is also how my players learned the fifth edition rules, once Hero Designer came out.

[Kap]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Bought a beat-up used copy of 2nd edition Champions for two or three dollars after skimming through it to see what it had to offer. What pulled me in was it was the only superhero game that had a mechanic for PCs burning themselves out by overexerting themselves (END costs) and the BODY/STUN mechanic to mimic how superheroes in comics get knocked out all the time but not killed. I only used Hero System for super heroes. Despite its billing and what others say, I think it works best for that genre and prefer other games for other genres.

 

I still have friends who don't really "get" the system, though, but in the course of a game they get by with minimal explanations and memory jogging.

[Tasha]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

Hmm. I notice that 5 pages into this thread I've seen maybe two or three people that came into the game in 5th or 6th editions.

 

That can't be good for the future of the system...... Eventually all the folks that started in 1st or 2nd are going to get too senile to teach anyone new.

 

I think you will find that most experienced gamers are part of an established group. Those groups tend to be kind of insular and not really looking for new players. It's that way with many groups no matter what system they play.

 

Tasha

[Escafarc]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I started with the 1E when it first came out and it became my system of choice ever since.

[Norm]

Re: So how did you guys learn the system?

 

I was introduced to the HERO System in my first year of college. Actually started with the 4th Ed (BBB) right before Hero Games stopped publishing things in the early 1990s. Pretty much played everything (Fantasy/Star/Cyber Hero) over the years except for Champions.

 

Stayed with it as way to learn one rule system for any genre.