Pattern Ghost Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities not this time! I filed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Were you ever part of that nostalgic age where no one locked their doors' date=' because "the neighborhood was just that safe"?[/quote'] I don't remember. I do know I drive my wife crazy sometimes with my habit of locking doors though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=2]Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon[/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities $1k in a night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities $1k in a night... Yeah, that says a lot right there. Sounds like these guys need a swift kick in the nads card. Minus the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Querysphinx Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster Great female models and leaders in Alabaster kickstarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Were you ever part of that nostalgic age where no one locked their doors' date=' because "the neighborhood was just that safe"?[/quote'] Yup. Or sort of. When I was growing up, my Dad used to lock the house's front door after everyone went to bed ... leaving all the other doors and windows unlocked, and often open. We only ever locked the house up when we were going away on holiday. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Yup. Or sort of. When I was growing up, my Dad used to lock the house's front door after everyone went to bed ... leaving all the other doors and windows unlocked, and often open. We only ever locked the house up when we were going away on holiday. cheers, Mark You lock the front door to show nobody's home. You leave the back door unlocked in case someone needs to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities You lock the front door to show nobody's home. You leave the back door unlocked in case someone needs to get in. Yeah, pretty much. And we didn't live out in the country but in a small city of about 35,000. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I've never locked my doors while at home. This is both while living stateside and while living here in Japan. Indeed, a house was far more likely to blow up in an explosion or burn in a fire than be robbed in my little section of the city; in 15 years, we had 1 explosion (my house), one burning (neighbor) and no robberies. And it was a rare thing for me to ever lock my car - and I had a fairly nice car (2000 Monte Carlso SS). But that was the nice thing about living in such a good place in the US. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I've never locked my doors while at home. This is both while living stateside and while living here in Japan. Indeed, a house was far more likely to blow up in an explosion or burn in a fire than be robbed in my little section of the city; in 15 years, we had 1 explosion (my house), one burning (neighbor) and no robberies. And it was a rare thing for me to ever lock my car - and I had a fairly nice car (2000 Monte Carlso SS). But that was the nice thing about living in such a good place in the US. La Rose. Until I got married, I never bothered locking up when at home. Didn't matter if it was the dorm, apartment, farmhouse, or little house in a big town, they all stayed unlocked. Much of the time I didn't bother closing the back door at night - I wanted the cool breeze blowing in. Windows were left unlocked all year (how else can you break into your own house when your stupid self locked you out?). I'd lock the doors when I left the house, but removing a screen would have been trivial for anyone wanting in. And my truck? I lock it only in two conditions: 1) I got a bunch of stuff I just bought sitting on the front seat and I need to go into another big box store, 2) the wife is with me and forces me to lock an empty truck. The wife's need to have all doors and windows locked at night or any time we are gone drives me nuts. Locking an empty farm truck in my own driveway is even worse. Caution is one thing, paranoia is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities ....taking extremely basic security steps that have little to no cost is not paranoia. It's just common sense. I would lock my dorm room if it was empty and I went to shower, just because it was very easy for me to have a key and even though I didn't think anything would happen, well... I don't remember if my roommate ever learned he should take his key with him. My personal philosophy: If I were making a statement to a police officer and at a certain point would be forced to pause in embarrassment before continuing/would feel stupid for what I was about to say, I probably shouldn't do it. "Well, officer, I just needed a pack of gum so I..... left the car running while I ran in to get some......" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=1]Why you should stop saying “rape” casually in games[/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I don't need to read the article to be able to tell you that it should say "Why You Should Stop Saying Rape, Casually." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=1]Readercon: The Bad and the Ugly [/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Ok Out in the lands of Warhammer 40k there has also been a discussion of sexism in the wargaming circles (which is frankly far worse than it is in RPG circles). Also, the discussion has moved toward the subject of "Sexy Models" ie miniatures that depict people but mostly women in a sexualized fashion. Thanks to the popularity of www.Coolminiornot.com there has been an explosion of companies that offer nearly pornographic nude models. There has always been a trickle of intensely sexualized female models from nearly all companies that make miniatures. Lately there has been an explosion of these kind of figurines. I see this discussion as being akin to discussions here about the Depictions of Women in RPG artwork. it started with this review of models (Warning Nekked and partially nekked painted and unpainted figuring might not be safe for work). The comments are where it all began: http://www.houseofpaincakes.com/2012/06/sexy-models-need-i-say-more.html#idc-container Then a ton of blogs commented on their own sites. http://warpsignal.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/the-other-sexy-models/ http://www.tentakelgames.com/post/25494912136/sexism-and-miniatures kind of wraps up here with a ton of links to other blogs that talk about the miniatures and the way women are treated at gaming places. http://warpsignal.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/sexism-in-gaming-art-final-words/ Enjoy I wanted to toss out some quick thoughts on this. 1. First, I totally agree that the models depicted there with greatly exaggerated physical characteristics, and the fetish inspired models, are pretty darn (i.e., blatantly) sexist, if not misogynistic. 2. On the other hand, I didn't find many of the other nudes to be offensive. Maybe I'm wrong, but it naked people aren't bad. 3. The above point is aside from the characters where partial nudity was inappropriate. The female western figure with her blouse completely open for no reason other than to show off her brazier was pretty gratuitous. 4. Never the less I do notice that there were no equivalent male nudes. It seems unfair or unbalanced somehow. 5. Thinking about the culture of art for a moment, I do think there are a lot more depictions of nude females in the art world, and have been for hundreds of years. I don't want to make excuses, but a trained sculptor who makes these models might be biased towards female nudes by training. I'm still not excepting the obvious "not proportional anime characters" from that, nor the fetish wear. 6. Even so I notice more male nudes in classical art than I see depicted in models on those pages, so yes the hobby is still biased more than western culture in general. 7. Overall those links appear to support your claim of bias toward sexism in the gaming hobbies. I agree you've made a convincing point. I'm not sure what comes next. Raising consciousness like you are doing is a good start. I'm not sure what more could be done however. Women owned business and women owned stores to cater to women and create a "critical mass" of consumers so that rest of the industry? I don't know if that's practical. But it seems like women get into the hobby, they see what it actually entails, and they get back out. There's never enough critical mass of consumers at any time to change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I don't hate nude models as a rule. I just find it tiring that partially nude, sexy models seem to be the "Default" way that women are portrayed in the hobby. On top of this it seems that most models portray women as ultra skinny with huge hips, narrow waists, and huge breasts. There is only one company that I know of that produces women figs that are of a larger body type (Hasslefree Minis). Though he also sculpts many barely dressed women figs too (also some nudes that seem to be somewhat tasteful). When it comes to body type, I know that men are also portrayed as being Adonis. Though it can be argued that that portrayal can be part of the male power fantasy. So what should we do about all of this. Make sure that we start to make noise about this. Making sure that people know that this kind of stuff isn't acceptable. Perhaps then some of you nice guys will shut down the jerks (when we don't do it ourselves). Speaking up on forums like Reddit, RPG.net etc and telling the jerks there that acting that way isn't acceptable. If there are enough people shaming the jerks they will at least stop posting their bile, and perhaps make some of them think. Not only not buying models that we find offensive, but also writing letters (emails) to the companies/ studios that make such figures telling them why we aren't buying their stuff. Respectfully asking for and then buying models that are good expressions of a strong female wearing clothing that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I don't hate nude models as a rule. I just find it tiring that partially nude, sexy models seem to be the "Default" way that women are portrayed in the hobby. On top of this it seems that most models portray women as ultra skinny with huge hips, narrow waists, and huge breasts. There is only one company that I know of that produces women figs that are of a larger body type (Hasslefree Minis). Though he also sculpts many barely dressed women figs too (also some nudes that seem to be somewhat tasteful). When it comes to body type, I know that men are also portrayed as being Adonis. Though it can be argued that that portrayal can be part of the male power fantasy. So what should we do about all of this. Make sure that we start to make noise about this. Making sure that people know that this kind of stuff isn't acceptable. Perhaps then some of you nice guys will shut down the jerks (when we don't do it ourselves). Speaking up on forums like Reddit, RPG.net etc and telling the jerks there that acting that way isn't acceptable. If there are enough people shaming the jerks they will at least stop posting their bile, and perhaps make some of them think. Not only not buying models that we find offensive, but also writing letters (emails) to the companies/ studios that make such figures telling them why we aren't buying their stuff. Respectfully asking for and then buying models that are good expressions of a strong female wearing clothing that makes sense. I would be amused to see a line of Nude/mostly nude male fantasy figures with their sexual characteristics as exaggerated as most of the females figures, but honestly no one would stock a series of "Amazon Harem" figures with peens bigger than their forearms, hanging down well past their knees. I't'd almost be worth a small production run jut to pull a Candid Camera routine at a few game shops to record the responses by the standard "gaming public" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I would be amused to see a line of Nude/mostly nude male fantasy figures with their sexual characteristics as exaggerated as most of the females figures, but honestly no one would stock a series of "Amazon Harem" figures with peens bigger than their forearms, hanging down well past their knees. I't'd almost be worth a small production run jut to pull a Candid Camera routine at a few game shops to record the responses by the standard "gaming public" I'd love that to tell the truth. I am all for equal nudes. Rep this when I'm able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurbal Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I'd love that to tell the truth. I am all for equal nudes. Dude! Pants! How many times do we have to tell you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I would be amused to see a line of Nude/mostly nude male fantasy figures with their sexual characteristics as exaggerated as most of the females figures' date=' but honestly no one would stock a series of "Amazon Harem" figures with peens bigger than their forearms, hanging down well past their knees.[/quote'] The Beefcake Brigade! I too need to spread around before repping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Objectification has always seemed like a tricky subject to me. On the one hand, merely reducing someone to their component physicality/overt sexual appeal is clearly wrong. On the other hand, we kinda sorta do it anyway, at least partially. We respond to someone else's physicality/overt sexual appeal. The more attractive they are, the more likely we are to do it. But, in a redeeming fashion, most of us tend to also incorporate the rest of the person(personality, intellect, social quirks, morality, outlook, etc.) into our conception of them, effectively "subjectifying" them. I guess the way I'd make the distinction is thusly: It's perfectly normal and okay to notice that someone has a great body/is very physically attractive. It's not okay to reduce them to that, and see them as "only" a body for your consumption(real or fantasized). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Thing is, rendering the other sex into objects doesn't reflect across the gender barrier as simply as one might guess. Women stereotypically aren't into porn, but they are into emotional manipulation, if the trade romance novel biz is to be taken as representative. I have grumbled about intrinsic sexism and objectification inherent in cheap romance novels in other threads before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities women stereotypically aren't into porn... lies!!! All lies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Women stereotypically aren't into porn... I dunno about that. All of the porn I've seen has had *plenty* of women in it. Sometimes, they even forget to invite the guys. Um... I mean, I have no idea what you're talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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